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Xiang Liu and Xiao Yao’s Story and Romance

Kokuto
 AkuMau:
I truly appreciate your support, and I’ll definitely consider turning it into a separate topic later on. Thank you for the encouragement. :).

I just saw the topic!  THANK YOU!!!!


 AkuMau:
I haven’t had the chance to thank you for the link you shared about Tushanjing’s additional letter to Xiaoyao. I’ve watched the video, and there was one part that caught my attention: when Tushanjing says, 'But you saw me,' there’s an inserted clip of the moment when Xiaoyao first sees FFB—placed between the scenes of her and Tushanjing. It seems to suggest that In Xiaoyao’s eyes and heart, there is only Xiangliu, and Tushanjing was merely a substitute. As for the rest, I’m not entirely sure how to interpret it... or maybe it’s just an ordinary video without any hidden meaning

Oh, so it WAS there.  I'll have to pay more attention to the clip.  That's such a weird thing to put into Jing's clip / letter.  I suspect there was a YaoLiu fan doing the edit.  lol!  It's something of a joke here that whenever something goes wrong, usually digitally, that YaoJing fans are secret screwing up things for YaoLiu fans. 

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HeadInTheClouds

The missing posts are giving me whiplash. All within barely 48 hours. 

All of your time and energy AkuMau !

I didn't read all of it, and I didn't agree with many of the analyses, but I did enjoy some of it. The one on the costumes and hair accessories was helpful. I was too busy reading the subtitles when watching the drama, so I missed most of those things. 

Creating a thread for it is probably a good idea. Then, a particular point/analysis of interest could be brought here for discussion.  At least all your effort won't go to waste. Although I don't envy you having to do all the posting again :-(

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HeadInTheClouds
 Rain_83223:

Wow, so glad to see this thread still active even two years later and a lot of the old members.

This is slightly off topic, but I recently discovered the drama Filter starring TJC. It is a really good and funny watch if you want some lighthearted relief from LYF. The drama is also written by TongHua and has many LYF easter eggs. Ie. there was one scene where the XL OST popped out of nowhere lol.

The Filter board have a thread dedicated to the LYF Easter Eggs in Filter. You'll find some familiar names *looking at Kokuto* over there :-)

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Snowcup
 Kokuto:
Noooooooo!  Where did the posts go???
 HeadInTheClouds:
The missing posts are giving me whiplash. All within barely 48 hours. 

The whiplash is definitely real. One moment, there were pages of commentary, photos, GIFs, and posts written in multiple “voices,” and then… poof. They disappeared without any explanation. It’s hard not to feel a bit disoriented when that much content just vanishes. Considering all the effort involved, that’s really unfortunate. I don’t think anyone saw that coming. I hope there were good reasons behind it, and that everything is okay.

Now we’re seeing what looks like a reappearance – this time in yet another different “voice.”
AkuMau, it’s difficult to make sense of everything without context, especially after such a dramatic shift. If you’re open to it, it would be great to hear more about what led to these changes and how you see things moving forward. If there’s anything you’re willing to share, I think many of us would genuinely appreciate the clarity.

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HeadInTheClouds

@Snowcup

I think AkuMau already explained in her comments to Rain_83223  a few posts back. Deleting all her posts and moving them to their dedicated post is her response to the concerns that were raised. Now, she can still share her findings with other interested individuals. 

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Snowcup

Thanks, I did see that exchange, and moving everything to a dedicated thread does seem to address part of the concern. The confusion is more about how she returned to this thread after the deletion – with a post that felt like a continuation rather than a reset – which made the whole thing feel less like a shift and more like a rebranding. That’s what I was hoping she might clarify.

Meanwhile, our posts now read like we’re reacting to thin air, which makes the thread feel more fragmented than it needs to be. It would be helpful to know what the intended takeaway is – just so we can all stay on the same page.

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MountainPine

Warm greetings from Ukraine.
Being LYF fan and Xiang Liu and Xiao Yao's love FOREVER fan and reading this fantastic tread up to 300th page, I finally gathered all my courage and registered on this site to join the conversation  if possible. Thank you so much to all fantastic people who write here - reading all your thoughts helps me so much to push trough each day.

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Kokuto
 MountainPine:
Being LYF fan and Xiang Liu and Xiao Yao's love FOREVER fan and reading this fantastic tread up to 300th page,

Welcome!  I'm always happy to see folks enjoying the thread and sticking with it through all the discussion and debate.

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HeadInTheClouds
 MountainPine:

Warm greetings from Ukraine.
Being LYF fan and Xiang Liu and Xiao Yao's love FOREVER fan and reading this fantastic tread up to 300th page, I finally gathered all my courage and registered on this site to join the conversation  if possible. Thank you so much to all fantastic people who write here - reading all your thoughts helps me so much to push trough each day.

Welcome to the thread. You are reading through the entire 749 pages? That's crazy. And impressive. 

Discussions are encouraged and welcome, so please join in. 

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MountainPine

Thank you so much for accepting me! I had a dream to join long ago but my English is still not good enough.
But recently I had a hard and long "battle" with YaoJing fans online (most of time it felt like playing chess with a pigeons :) (I apologize:) . I felt myself confident because I can speak about evidences of Xiang Liu and Xiao Yao's love for weeks non stop... but then... I lost the battle in a moment because of that interview where Tong Hua speaks about Jing and Xiao Yao's yearning and longing to each other (while she just "pulled out" of her mind Xiang Liu) and about "love doesn't happen without a reason and without a base" ( I have always felt like true love actually happens without any reason and any base and it calls unconditional)....
Tong Hua's attitude is inconsistent to me. As a married woman, I see Jing and Xiao Yao's "love" as ill and sometimes even maniacal connection on both sides. I see all those red flags and "the bell rings" to me many times (here I want to mention moments where Xiao Yao plays chess with Xuan (and Jing) and moment when she plays citer for guests being Jing's "student". And many other moments.

Generally trough the novel she looks to me like a person with her bones broken. And instead of going trough hard and painful rehab to be back to normal life, in the end,  she is being put on a wheelchair and surrounded with pillows and someone promises to carry her like that  always so she don't feel pain ("happy ending"?). In one of the last episodes Jing even says something like "I will do everything (all work and care about everything) and you will only eat". This is totally sick to say so and devalues and levels off Xiao Yao's personality. But then, in times when woman still fight for equality and independence, Jing wins in  "viewers favorite character online contest" and most of voters were women... How to even explain this? Who makes women weak and dependent? Men or, maybe... we ourselves?

Summing up, I wanted to ask if there is some thread or collection of all Tong Hua's comments and thoughts about LYF, and the way her attitude changed (probably) during all these years, so it can be possible to better understand what she actually wanted to say with her novel... sorry for such  a stupid and flat ending of my comment:) most of time I do understand what she wanted to say, the novel is deep (simply bottomless) and tragic. But sometimes... I think maybe I am wrong and this is... just an ordinary love story?
Once again, thank you for accepting me (so happy!!!)

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Kokuto
 MountainPine:
Thank you so much for accepting me! I had a dream to join long ago but my English is still not good enough.

Your English is pretty impressive to me.  And much better than my non-existent Ukrainian ... or any second language.  We're (the USA) probably at the bottom of the list as far as learning a second language, much less multiple languages.


 MountainPine:
But recently I had a hard and long "battle" with YaoJing fans online (most of time it felt like playing chess with a pigeons :)

Heh


 MountainPine:
I lost the battle in a moment because of that interview where Tong Hua speaks about Jing and Xiao Yao's yearning and longing to each other (while she just "pulled out" of her mind Xiang Liu) and about "love doesn't happen without a reason and without a base" ( I have always felt like true love actually happens without any reason and any base and it calls unconditional)....

Firstly, Tong Hua isn't always consistent in interviews and like her work, you have to peel away what she is saying, as it often has multiple meanings.  As has been discussed, XY often substitutes Jing for XL.  Likewise, what was the original text, as there's more than one kind of 'love.'

Secondly, when in doubt, pull out the Lovers Bug.  There's really no argument against that.

Thirdly, yes, I agree.  XY loved XL with her heart, emotionally, and couldn't stop loving him.  While her relationship with Jing had to be built and was more intellectual.


 MountainPine:
But then, in times when woman still fight for equality and independence, Jing wins in "viewers favorite character online contest" and most of voters were women... How to even explain this? Who makes women weak and dependent? Men or, maybe... we ourselves?

I wouldn't pay much attention to those online polls.  Water armies are rampant.  Jing in the drama definitely has his fans, but I don't think anyone will forget Xiang Liu.  It is interesting that for some of us, Jing makes the hair on the back of our necks rise with alarm.


 MountainPine:
Summing up, I wanted to ask if there is some thread or collection of all Tong Hua's comments and thoughts about LYF, and the way her attitude changed (probably) during all these years, so it can be possible to better understand what she actually wanted to say with her novel... sorry for such a stupid and flat ending of my comment:) most of time I do understand what she wanted to say, the novel is deep (simply bottomless) and tragic. But sometimes... I think maybe I am wrong and this is... just an ordinary love story?

No, I do not think LYF is an ordinary love story.  If it were, I don't think people would still be talking about or analyzing it over a decade later.  Some people (Jing fans) want to read it that way, but they really have to ignore a lot to do so, IMO.   But Tong Hua has given them that very superficial layer to cling to.

There is not a collection, that I am aware of.  There was a topic here that linked to one interview that she did, after her revision of the book, but it is sparks debate between YaoLiu and YaoJing whenever it is brought up.  Tong Hua is never going to come out and say her novel means just one thing.  And she'd given more interviews, as well as posted on her weibo, over time about LYF.

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Kokuto
 HeadInTheClouds:

Welcome to the thread. You are reading through the entire 749 pages? That's crazy. And impressive. 

Discussions are encouraged and welcome, so please join in. 

We posted 749 pages ... that's the crazy part.  lol

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blabla100

@MountainPine

Welcome, @MountainPine! I had the same problem as you at first, I wasn't too confident in my english either, but thanks to this forum I think I got better at it, lol. And people here are so nice and fun to talk to, so there is really no need to worry about that, believe me! 

About "love doesn't happen without a reason and without a base", Tong Hua clearly tell us what Yao Jing's base is, it's stated în chapter 2 of the first volume.


"He continued walking, but Seventeen didn't leave, instead following him. Xiaoliu put his hands on his hips and raised his voice, "Hey, I told you to go back, didn't you hear?"

    Seventeen stood still, eyes downcast, his silence expressing his determination.

    Perhaps because their initial connection was based on pity, Xiaoliu easily softened his heart"

... 

Perhaps because he had just been tortured by Xiangliu, or perhaps because the seam in his hard shell had not yet closed, Xiaoliu was very greedy for the support at hand. He closed his eyes and leaned on Seventeen's shoulder, his cheek against his neck, rubbing it like a kitten, "I'm not afraid of him. I don't believe that there is no poison in the world that can poison him. When I make the poison, I will..."


Tong Hua's full quote is actually this

"There is no love that happens without a reason. A relationship can withstand time, various setbacks and trials precisely because the foundation is solid enough, just like Xiao Yao and Shi Qi. Only by understanding the kind of foundation their love is based on, can you understand what "eternal yearning" is."

As stated, YaoJing's relationship (Tong Hua refers to the "relationship") was based on pity and comfort, so thanks to that it did withstand time, but precisely because that's their foundation, the eternal yearning she mentioned at the end wasn't pointed at yaojing IMO. În other words, precisely because the reader knows that Yao Jing's foundation was not based on love, but on pity, he should also understand that eternal yearning does not refer to them, but to yaoliu.  And even if that pity will  eventually turn into love, once you already got what you wanted, what's there left to make you eternally yearning for? 


From @windiaaa's post

"At first glance, from the picture it appears that Tong Hua was advocating YaoJing, but what is the reality?

What is the foundation of YaoJing's relationship? Pity! Feelings that are not genuine! What does "long-lasting yearning" mean? A yearning that cannot be realised, a love that cannot be together! Isn't YaoJing a happy ending? How is it a love that cannot be together? So isn't Tong Hua being ironic? The correct interpretation is: It is only when you truly comprehend how YaoJing is not a genuine relationship, can you understand what true feelings are!"

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MountainPine

Thank you, guys, so much for replying and explaining all this to me, 🙏 ❤️‍🩹 I LOVE reread your comments. I apologise for my comments being such a mess - I am just learning to write here, and also, my account currently have restrictions, I can only write one comment per day.

@blabla100 "And people here are so nice and fun to talk to" Every time I read this forum, I admire the intelligence and humor of everyone who writes here. So I had to gather all my courage to join! 🫣 And it's definitely the best and sweetest way possible to learn English🤌🤌 All you have written here, definitely has literatural value and is a profound study of the human soul.

@blabla100 "What is the foundation of YaoJing's relationship? Pity! Feelings that are not genuine!"

Regarding pity, let me quote part of a sermon by a famous Ukrainian priest.

"Not pity, but mercy. We often think that if we feel pity for someone, it's good. But in fact, no one needs pity. Pity is the most destructive force in nature. Love is a building and unifying force. 

We very often feel pity for ourselves, but we don't know how to love ourselves. And the people around us (wife, husband, children, friends) - we often feel pity for them, we often get used to them, and it's terribly hard for us without that person. But even if it seems to you that you can't live without someone - the question remains: is it love, or are you just used to this person? The concept of love is the gift that is easiest to recognize and easiest to confuse. Because it is so universal. But precisely because of this, it is easy to confuse it with pity, admiration or something else. Love is the ability to sacrifice, an effort.  While pity is the opposite. Permissiveness, privilege. It's a tool of Satan. If I feel pity for someone, it means I don't love them. We often feel pity for someone and therefore think we love them. But pity is not love, it is an evil force in disguise that destroys. Should we feel pity for someone in our hearts? Yes, because it is the ability to empathize. But it is not love."


@HeadInTheClouds "You are reading through the entire 749 pages? That's crazy. And impressive". 

In fact, it is a salvation for me. All your thoughts written here - reading it saved me. And it is a miracle that I  found SOMETHING so powerful that can distract me from the madness of our existence in war. 

Before I got married, I read a lot of classic literature. But there were no one even remotely like Xiang Liu. Often, when I lie awake at night, I immediately start thinking about him. And I just feel the tears quietly rolling down from my eyes in the darkness - and this is so strange and weird... I never thought that there was anything left in the world that could excite me THIS much. What Tong Hua created... It is so powerful!


@Kokuto "Likewise, what was the original text, as there's more than one kind of 'love."

I've read all these fancy Chinese terms that describe love. But in Ukrainian, everything is simple. There are two words. The first "kokhannya" means a  kind of love that happens mostly once in a lifetime, only to one person, without reason, without a base, uncontrolled, unconditional and leaves a mark on the soul forever. And there's no way at all to have it to two people at the same time. And the second word is "lyubov", which is "love" and includes absolutely all other types of love. So if Tong Hua had written in Ukrainian, she would not have been able to create this intrigue and ambiguity 😁

@Kokuto "Tong Hua is never going to come out and say her novel means just one thing."

I absolutely love all the ambiguity in her answers. Particularly about whether LYF is a tragedy and about everyone got what they wanted the most. She's brilliant at avoiding the answer and at the same time she gives it. But in some cases, like the one I mentioned earlier... it's really hard for me to see the hidden meaning, it seems obvious to me🥲. It seems like here, she gives more "points" to Jingers. (UPD But after @blabla100's and your explanation I feel so much better about it and looks like this does have a logic and everything is in place).

The best thing would be not to give anyone a head start and just watch that unique battle of the fans (here should be that meme with a smiling little girl and a fire in the background😆, but I don't know how to add pictures).


There are many moments I'm not sure about and have hope to find an answer reading this forum or that wise people here will explain it to me.  For example, the moment where Xiao Yao says: "I really hate that I wasn’t born a few hundred years earlier. I would definitely find you in the slave death match arena...”

But how can she be sure that she would have found him? They could have just never met. To notice someone in the death match arena who doesn't stand out from the other slaves and looks like mess? For what reason? But she even uses the word "definitely". "I hate" and "definitely" - such a strong words. What is her message? "I would have found you anyway, in any lifetime, because our meeting and love were destined for us by Heaven, no matter when we were born and who we were"? Doesn't this look like another veiled confession of love from her? Or am I making things up?

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Kokuto
 MountainPine:
my account currently have restrictions, I can only write one comment per day.

One post a day???  When did that restriction happen?  Surely it doesn't last long.


 MountainPine:
Pity is the most destructive force in nature. Love is a building and unifying force.

Yes!  This is one reason why I don't think YaoJing is a good for either of them.  Jing has no self worth anyway, so this certainly isn't going to help him.  

 MountainPine:
Love is the ability to sacrifice, an effort. While pity is the opposite. Permissiveness, privilege.

Boy.  That hits the nail right on the head for this drama.


 MountainPine:
But in Ukrainian, everything is simple. There are two words.

It's interesting that other languages have more than one word.  In English we only have one word ... but we can modify it with many different adjectives, like platonic love or passionate love, etc.


 MountainPine:
I absolutely love all the ambiguity in her answers.

Well, we and plenty of others, certainly wouldn't be discussing her work so much.  :)  I think she's taken the 'snake in the grass' technique too far, when she uses it in her interviews, but here we are.  Of course, Chinese doesn't appear to the most direct language.  There's a lot of idioms and references.  Sometimes, when I use a translator, I STILL don't know what the posters are talking about.  lol

The other clue to YaoJing is that its shadow relationship is Chuan Zi  and Sang Tian Er.  Their relationship is exactly as Tong Hua described -- time, setbacks, trials, and not built on romantic love, at least from Sang Tian Er's side.  While Chuan Zi's 'love' didn't stop him from cheating on her later on.  But the love of family and their life together was the foundation that allowed them both to work on their relationship and stay together.


 MountainPine:
For example, the moment where Xiao Yao says: "I really hate that I wasn’t born a few hundred years earlier. I would definitely find you in the slave death match arena...”
 MountainPine:
What is her message? "I would have found you anyway, in any lifetime, because our meeting and love were destined for us by Heaven, no matter when we were born and who we were"? Doesn't this look like another veiled confession of love from her? Or am I making things up?

Yes, I suppose it is a hidden confession.  It's a confession that he's the one she wants to spend her life with, IF he wasn't tied to Hong Jiang and she wasn't tied to her family.  It's an acknowledgement that they are destined and connected, that she will always recognize him, no matter what he looks like.  Their hearts beat as one.  It's why she knows at some level that Fang Feng Bei IS Xiang Liu, even before he admits it.  And how she can pick him out of the crowd, even if he is shapeshifted, like in the casino.

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