IThinkThereforeIAm

The better question to me is, why do people hate Way so much, just based off of what we've seen in the show? If you're not including book spoilers- which I feel like every single person does when they're concluding on the character of Way, what has he really done that's so horrible? Yes, he was jealous and yes he manipulated his friend. But the show hasn't even explained his abilities yet. So based on the show so far, all we know about Way is that he is a somewhat petty, and yes manipulative friend, who is deeply hurting because he can't get over the fact that he has feelings for his best friend who does not love him back. That's a relatable feeling to me. It's messy, and not always nice, but at least he acts like an actual human would versus Charlie who has the same robotic reaction to literally everything. So yeah, right now, given the choice, I choose to care about the character that I feel something for. Everyone inserting their deep hatred and ire for Way, I feel like are doing so with knowledge of how he is in the novels. I'd like to wait and see what the show does before I make that determination.

Say it louder for the people in the back. And let's throw the word count police out there, while we're at it. I'm sorry my thoughts about the show extend past a singular sentence. And I'm so very sorry that all of those thoughts aren't 100% positive all of the time. But OP is right. There's this little thing in the middle of your mouse that lets you scroll right past content you don't want to consume. And if you're on your phone, it's even easier just take that finger you're using to constantly point at everybody else, and use it instead to scroll past what you don't like. Crazy, isn't it?

LOL 😂I don't know what's wrong with me. This show just gets me in my feelings sometimes. So, I guess that means I still care.

That was it?

That was the big emotional, game changing plot reveal that was supposed to make me care about Charlie and Babe, and justify the last six episodes of Charlie being a mysterious and unreadable character?

This feels like it was meant to be a crux moment- a true conflict for Babe and Charlie to overcome together to rebuild a trust that feels earned and honest and- oh what? They're already banging in a car five seconds after having the most emotionally void argument I've ever seen? Oh, cool. I guess we won't be developing their relationship into anything genuine then.

Fool me once, show. Fool me twice. I was so excited for this episode, because I thought FINALLY we're going to learn where Charlie has been coming from and what his motivation and point has been for the entirety of the show. At last, Charlie and Babe can move forward with all of their cards on the table, and maybe we might get to see a tiny speck of the chemistry that I know exists between Pavel and Pooh.

But, no. We don't know anything else about Charlie. He stole Babe's powers for reasons, Babe doesn't care, so I guess it doesn't even matter.

Emotional stakes, who? Character development, why? I mean you saw the way Babe rode Charlie in the car, that's all you're really here for right?

As much as I enjoy the side couples and characters and even the plot of this show, I might honestly be done. I'm insulted that these writers think all they have to do to get me to watch a show is have sexy scenes between two hot guys. The way they write their main couple is insulting. They put no emotional weight behind their relationship at all. Everything just feels hollow.

This is supposed to be the height of dramatic tension between Babe and Charlie, and Charlie is as blank faced and emotionless as he's been since the show began. Not so much as a tear in the eye. Not even the slightest look of contrition. Just hollow empty eyes and Cheshire grins. That's all we're going to get from Charlie. Leading up to the fight, Pavel's emotional input was on point. I felt for Babe, and I felt his pain. Which is why I think it's such a waste that all of that tension and emotion literally evaporated the second he was in a room with Charlie. Why is it that I believe Babe's feelings for Charlie are genuine only in scenes when Charlie himself is not present? When Babe talks about how he feels for Charlie, I believe it. But the second they share scenes with each other, I don't believe it anymore. How does that make sense?

I genuinely can't figure out if it's because the writers just refuse to write any believable tension between the characters, so all of their scenes are either a) plot info dumps for us to learn the motivations of literally ever character besides Babe and Charlie or b) pointless kissy face scenes where they talk cutesy to each other but say nothing important for either the plot or character development. Or if it's a genuine acting problem. I've tried to give Pooh the benefit of the doubt. I was in agreement when people would say it's the character and not the actor. I think there's some truth to the fact that Charlie is just a poorly written character. But after seven episodes, I think it's safe to say that Pooh's acting is simply not up to Pavel's level. I think the writing is part of the problem, but I think there is an acting imbalance that is also draining the tension from these scenes. We're deep enough into the show, Pooh being new to acting isn't a good excuse anymore, I'm sorry. I don't know if anyone else here is watching the Sign, but Babe, the actor playing Tharn on that series is also brand new to acting, but he isn't stilted or unnatural or weirdly emotionless in the way that Pooh is. I'm not attacking Pooh, I'm simply stating a fact. He is not as emotionally skilled as other actors on the show and the imbalance of that is leading to weird chemistry issues.

This is turning more rambling than I anticipated, so I guess I'll just cut myself off here. I don't know what it is about this show, it just brings out all of the opinions in me.

On God, the more details I learn from this novel the more I realize I don't ever want to read it. It sounds like the worst elements of a Wattpad omegaverse fanfic.

I actually enjoyed this episode for the most part. My one main complaint for the series is this: I still don't understand how this show is paced. Why do we have on one hand- Charlie and Babe- who suffer because they went from strangers to loved up and living together in the span of one episode, abandoning any and all nuance they could have built as they became a couple, and then on the other hand, you have Alan and Jeff who move at such a glacial snail's pace, we'll be lucky if they have any romantic interaction before the finale. How hard is it to write a well paced love story that makes sense?

If it makes you feel better, you're definitely not alone in that sentiment. A few of us have jokingly labeled ourselves as the Way Apologist Club. Lol.

I agree whole heartedly, and have mentioned similar concerns. People need to separate show criticism from personal attacks. Having an opinion about a character that is poorly written is not an attack on that actor. Guess what? This might be a controversial statement, but having criticism about an actor's portrayal isn't an attack on the actor either. Art doesn't exist in a plane beyond criticism. When you put something out to the world, the world has a right to perceive that work in whatever way they would like. If you enjoy every aspect of the show without criticism, that's great, and it's your right to express. But if others enjoy the series, but would like to discuss where they would like to see it improve- that's also an acceptable way to consume media. If we can't all coexist in a space without being personally attacked for opinions about FICTIONAL characters, then what are any of us even doing here?

When I tell you my eyes were stuck in the back of my head from rolling so hard. Such a boring and predictable plot point.

Lol, not the new P'Dean 🤣🤣I couldn't agree more. The amount of stupidity that we're just supposed to swallow, like the writers pretending like Charlie hasn't been the suss new guy on the team this whole entire time. He vouches for Jeff and that's good enough for all of these people who have no idea who Charlie really is? They wrote that like Charlie's been a valuable member of the team for years, and his word should be trusted. And don't even get me started on the idiotic writing where everyone just accepts Charlie as a racer because Babe's dickmatized ass tells them to, even though they've all seen how slow as hell and bad at driving he is. And you just know they're going to have him win that stupid race, which will only serve to further infuriate me. But I'm tired of this show trying to gaslight me into thinking that Way is being petty and unnecessarily mistrusting by having everyone else on the team be totally unreactionary to Charlie's sussness. To me it does the opposite- it makes the entire rest of the team look like a bunch of easy to fool idiots.

There's nothing I hate worse than writing that just has your main characters win because they're the main characters without doing any of the actual work to have the journey to those victories be compelling. I've just accepted that this is a part of this series that won't go away. I'm trying really hard to focus on all of the other aspects of this show that I actually am enjoying--which is literally everything else.

Seriously, everything else about this show works. I just don't get the inconsistency of it.

Sometimes the black and white morality of these boards astonishes me. It is possible to enjoy something and still have constructive criticism for that thing. If I was having a dreadful time watching every episode of this show, I wouldn't be watching it, yet alone spending my time deconstructing it on a fan board. Sometimes we pick apart the things we love. It's call ANALYSIS. And it's kind of the whole point of a discussion board like this, you know- to discuss the show. What's working, what's not. What you would change- what you were surprised by. What you're excited for and what you're dreading. What would you have this board be, just generic faint praise and actor thirsting? There wouldn't be much of a discussion to have if every post was just "Oh my God, I love everything about this show. Pooh's so cute. Pavel's so hot. Nut's so cool." It's not very interesting, is it?

Sorry, I don't know why I'm ranting, but I've started noticing more and more of these types of posts on here and for some reason it really rubbed me up the wrong way. Okay. Rant over.

Agreed. I watched Boys' Journey first and it made me fall in love with the entire cast of this show. When you watch that show, you understand why the showrunners thought that Pavel and Pooh would be a wise choice as the two leads. The actors have palpable chemistry. So too did Ping and Nut, so the choices they made in character selection make absolute, total sense if you watch Boys' Journey first. Also, it's just a fun time where you get to know the actors better. Couldn't recommend it enough if you're enjoying the series at all.

I think to me the fundamental problem with this show is that the writers seem completely uninterested in writing a BL story. When they're focused on the intrigue of shady machinations of the waring racing teams, or when they delve into the mysteries behind Tony and his plans, the show comes close to being compelling. But you can tell the writers don't put any interest behind writing the romantic scenes. Babe and Charlie's scenes always feel weirdly outside of the plot of the show, which makes them feel superfluous in a show that is supposed to be about their relationship, and any of the "side couples" don't even get thirty seconds of screen time to develop into anything. The more I watch this show, the more I feel like they chose this story because they liked the racing themes, and the fact that the original storyline is a BL is an unfortunate fact to them that they feel like they have to write around. Just my two cents, though. I enjoy the show, but some of the flaws in the writing are becoming hard to just push to the side.

To be honest, I would've liked that as a twist better. At least it would make Charlie interesting. Which is why, of course, these writers will never actually write it that way.

This is the strangest BL I've ever seen. I don't think I've ever seen another BL series where it feels like the plot, storyline and forward momentum grind to a halt every time the main couple share scenes together. This should be written where I feel like Babe/Charlie is central to the plot-the main purpose of the plot, even. But it's just not written like that to me. Instead, we have all of these compelling, moving parts, machinations, people with conflicting agendas, and then every so often all of that has to stop while we have a pointless aside with Babe and Charlie sharing a scene where absolutely nothing is happening. Why is it written this way? I really can't tell what's going on. Did the writers just get so caught up in all of the shiny plot that they've completely neglected to give focus or development to their main couple? Actually, yes. I think that's exactly what's happening. I think these writers wanted to have a fast paced, flashy, ensemble show akin to KinnPorsche, but the problem is, that's not what the actual story of Pit Babe is. Pit Babe, the novels anyway, seems to be entirely about Babe and Charlie. And look, I'm all for expanding the world out and opening the story up to the ensemble characters. I think that part of the show is compelling. But they need to make the main couple equally as compelling, or it doesn't work. We're four episodes in and the show still refuses to give Charlie a concrete personality. You can blame the acting, but I don't. It's a problem with the writing. The writers just seem to be uninterested in Babe and Charlie. So much so that they're making me uninterested in Babe and Charlie. So I'm still in this frustrated camp where I really enjoy this series. I enjoy absolutely everything this series has to offer, except the main couple.

I swear it's the same people out here claiming to have no interest in book spoilers that are basing everything they hate about his character on the way his character was in the novels.

Removing all elements of potential spoilers that may or may not ever come to fruition because the show is not the novels and will in no way have the same plot, what do we know so far?

We know that Way and Babe have known each other for several years. We know that Way has romantic feelings for Babe. We know that Charlie is keeping something from Babe, but we don't know what it is. We know Charlie's entire personality is an act, because we've seen him turn it up to eleven when he's trying to get Babe's attention. We know that for whatever reason, despite an entire history of someone using him and having ulterior motives with him, that Babe is letting his guard down with Charlie and turning a blind eye to his motives and intentions. We know that Way is suspicious of Charlie, because duh. He should be.

The biggest complaint I've seen about the literal SINGLE conversation Way had with Babe about the situation is that he basically told Babe that no one can love him without having ulterior motives. They call Way a selfish friend for trying to gatekeep Babe from love. But they conveniently miss that the line was actually "No one can love US." He means any of them. Including himself. To me that conversation was a great insight into some of Way's internal fears. Has no one ever stopped to think that there might be a REASON that Way has never confessed his feelings for Babe? Deeper fears beyond the fear of rejection? All that conversation did was make me want to know more about Babe and Way's history, which fortunately it looks like we may get in the next episode.

Babe being distracted is his own fault, because he should have been skeptical of Charlie from the beginning. Charlie being completely under his skin is not Way's fault. Babe getting drunk is not Way's fault, and Babe losing the race is not Way's fault. Babe is a grown ass adult who made his own choices and has his own doubts and insecurities, regardless of what Way may or may not have told him.

I get that it is what it is. People who watch a show with ship vision are automatically going to hate anything that is an obstacle to their ship setting sail. But I think it's sad because I actually find Way to be a compelling and complex character, and I feel like the people who want to reduce him to just being a petty, jealous bitch are really missing out on the nuance this show is giving him so far.

This is what I'm saying. I thought it was pretty clear by the entire ridiculous set up and premise of grown adults acting like the members of a teenage school fan club that it's not that serious, but apparently the joke got lost in translation somewhere.

I feel like this comment section is all over the place. lol. I honestly still feel like there are a lot of people putting way too much gospel in the way things turn out in the books. The show isn't the books, and the characters' outcomes and motives may change out of necessity to the changes they had to make for the show. I can't imagine writing entire characters off because of how you think their narratives are going to play out. This applies to all characters. Some people are like, Charlie is a mystery and purposefully ambiguous and that's what I like about him. Others are like, no actually, Charlie has a perfectly good reason for doing what he's doing and he's the most loyal person to Babe. Same thing with Way. Some people are like, Way is an evil manipulative friend who only cares about his own happiness. Others are like, he's misunderstood and we don't actually know why he is the way he is. The point is, across the board, universally, for every character, NOBODY knows what the outcome is going to be. Even the people who are book spoiled. The show. is not. the books. So much is already different. Things will continue to be different. It's practically irrelevant to even mull over the book outcomes at this point, so much is different. I don't really know where I was going with this. It's late and I'm in the throws of a real insomnia ramble. Anyways, I guess my point is that just because you think you know the characters from the books, it doesn't make your opinion any more or less valid than someone who is speculating the characters based on the show only. Or something. I don't know I'm sleep deprived. I'm going to stop now.

Then I feel like someone should tell the writers. Because they aren't writing it that way.

Maybe I'm scarred by how annoying and self righteous Mew turned out to be on Only Friends, but I don't really like Zouey at all. At best he gives me the ick with his ultimate cringe, and at worst he's much shadier than he appears to be.