IThinkThereforeIAm

Look at all these fake ass people crying over Way like they weren't just systematically pretending like he didn't exist for 6 episodes. I see you, Alan, North and Sonic.

Well, it's finally over.

I think I mentioned about six episodes ago that I would have to come back after the end to decide if it was all worth it?

The answer? No, not really.

This show isn't bad, it's not egregiously disastrous. It doesn't make me sit and ponder how anyone could ever think it was acceptable to film this story and send it out into the world (here's looking at you, Playboyy) It's not great either. It's a show with a lot of ambitious ideas that ultimately falls short of the hype around it.

This is a well acted, well produced, poorly written, plot hole heavy show that is just fine.

In the grand finale, only five out of ten characters get anything that even closely resembles closure for their story arc. Only one character actually experienced any kind of character growth and development, (maybe one and a half) and five characters were left twisting in the wind. What happened to them? Who cares? Not the writers.

The biggest crime to this show was its marketing, which set up false promises that the show could not live up to. The show would have been better served to present itself as what it actually was instead of what it wanted people to think it was.

It's been real, Pit Babe. I'll catch the next project anyone in this cast does, because they have me in a perma chokehold. These writers? I hope I never encounter their work again.

Fair enough, I can only speak to what I see on this website, because I'm not on the others. I apologize if my response seemed curt or rude. I just feel like I've been on weird defense lawyer mode all day, because I maintain the opinion that to me, Way is the most compelling character. And I'll defend that having that opinion is not the same thing as defending the character's actions. I feel like there are some on this website that are conflating the two, and I confess that it can get a little bit tiresome to defend an unpopular opinion.

No one on the entirety of this website is defending Way's actions. I've read every single comment that was posted here today. I've seen people say they still find Way to be the most interesting character, which is not the same thing as defending the character's actions. I've seen some say they're interested to see how his character could be redeemed. That's not the same thing as defending his actions. I've even seen some be extremely disappointed and even decide to stop watching the show because Way turned out to not be the character they expected. None of this is defending his actions. The closest I could find was someone saying they still felt some sympathy for Way. But even that is not justifying what he did, only seeing a character through a 360 degree scope beyond a singular action that character took. This is maybe the fourth or fifth comment I've seen that is claiming this exact hypothetical argument that on this website simply doesn't exist. If you're going to question a person's opinions, at least have the decency to represent their opinions honestly.

I agree with your assessment, and I think we can get on the same page about that. But in my opinion, you're fighting a straw man argument. I've not seen a single person in the entirety of this comment section justify Way's actions in the way you're describing, only people who say they are still invested in his character moving forward, similar to what I described. Obviously, I can't speak to what people are saying on other platforms, because I'm not on them, but here on this platform, it feels like you're shadowboxing using a manufactured argument to punch down to people who have liked Way's character and that feels a little disingenuous to me.

I'd be first in line to call out if I actually did see that behavior because it's warped logic at best and toxic character worship at worst. But I just haven't seen what you're describing as of yet on this platform.

It does, and I apologize. I've just seen a lot of comments here and elsewhere that are moralizing people in real life based off of their interest in a fictional character, basically saying 'if you still like the character after this, then you are an SA apologist' and I think that is an absolutely ridiculous take to have about a fictional narrative. I may have unfairly read your post with that context because of some shared language between your post and theirs, but if you say that was not your intended meaning, I will take you at your word.

I'd argue that it is a necessary evil to his character's development, evolution and eventual redemption, but I have no faith that these writers could even accidentally write something that compelling.

I'd even acquiesce that it was the narrative purpose for Way to be seen as a sympathetic character so that his character's actions are seen as more shocking. We as the audience are supposed to be surprised by this turn of events. We're supposed to feel as betrayed as Babe does.

The problem is these writers are hacks. And while they followed the character beats of Way correctly for how his story is supposed to unfold, they forgot to make everything around him even remotely compelling. So now you have a situation where the only thing many people find interesting in your series is a character that you are fully aware is going to end up being villainous. That's a problem that the writers created by failing to make any other character apart from Way remotely interesting.

I'm still interested to see how his arc concludes, because he is the only character in this entire series that has been given a character arc at all, even if its dark.

This is the point I've been getting at as well. I am allowed to find a morally questionable fictional character compelling.

And if you think people's actual morals are tied to the characters they enjoy on television, then you need a serious dose of reality. It is not healthy to be that emotionally attached to fictional characters.

I still find Way compelling because of the FICTIONAL NARRATIVE he represents. I don't see myself in him, I don't picture myself as his bestie, I see that he is the only character in this series that has been given any complexity to his character development. Is it all saintly good energy? Obviously not. Am I still intrigued to see where his story goes? Yes I am, and I don't think I need to apologize for that.

I agree. They purposefully sold us false advertising because they saw the success of shows like KinnPorsche and Only Friends and they wanted a piece of that pie.

And I know people are clinging onto Alan and Jeff for dear life because they find Charlie and Babe to be uninteresting and they are looking for any life raft to hold onto in the rising tide of all this bullshit that the writers are spewing. But I am not going to sit here and pretend like that couple was well written, built up to or makes any sense because they weren't, it wasn't, and they don't. It would be pretty hypocritical of me to dislike Charlie and Babe for the poor build up and execution of their relationship and then completely cosign and celebrate the poor build up and execution of Alan and Jeff. I'm sorry. They're cute. But they're not well written and their romance came out of nowhere to me.

I will stand for the defense that I am allowed to find a fictional character compelling, no matter how dark and twisted they are. And it doesn't make me a terrible person.

People who confuse fictional characters with real life morality really need to go touch some grass, seriously.

Two things can be true at once.

I can find a character's actions morally reprehensible.
And I can still find that character's narrative compelling.

You won't see me defending Way's actions, because that would be ridiculous. It was meant to be a character breaking moment, and I think it is necessarily dark to further examine whether or not this character can be redeemed by the end of the series. This is the start of a character arc, not the conclusion of one.

So no, I won't defend Way's actions. But I will defend my right to find him compelling because this is a fictional character in a fictional narrative.

I don't see things in black and white. And I don't need a character to be a saint to be invested in what happens to that character.

And I don't think it's a fair criticism to conflate a person's interest in a fictional narrative with the morality of who they are as an actual human being.

He. is. a FICTIONAL. character.

Nobody is advocating for SA or defending those actions IRL. I certainly would never, ever do such a thing. Do I still find the character of Way compelling? Yes. Because he is the only character in this series, IMO, that was written with any thought or complexity whatsoever.

Have you seen Hannibal? Or American Psycho? How about Breaking Bad?

I don't need a character to be a saint to find them to be compelling and well written. I don't see a purpose in judging the morality in and thereof of a fictional character that is just a cog in a larger narrative. I don't think it makes me a bad, immoral person to be intrigued by a morally questionable character. I don't think it makes me a bad person to be completely disinterested in the storyline of the saintly good characters.

Written media is not real life and these characters are not real people. And people can like or dislike whatever part of a narrative they choose to without being attacked on their moral character.

People thought it was going to be different because the writers and creators of this show used the actors to market and perpetrate blatantly false advertising. They wanted to get a piece of that Only Friends/ KinnPorsche popular ensemble pie, and they represented this show as something other than what it is. I mean, KinnPorsche is literally called KinnPorsche, but you still get complete coherent stories from all three represented couples, and at least fractional character development from the supporting cast. Were Kinn and Porsche front and center? Of course they were. But the other couples still got their time and focus throughout the series. It's not an unprecedented idea that a show could successfully balance all of its characters well. We were sold a lie. This show wanted to harness the good will earned on the back of other successful shows. They literally said on Boys Journey that this was a show with 12 leads. Their words. They presented 6 tidy, easy to follow couplings and then pushed these actors to nonstop promote couples that were complete BS at the end of the day. And they knew that it was BS.

The creators of this show don't get a pass from me, just because things were different in the book.

I'm not sure even Nut could overcome the complete writing dud that is the character of Charlie. From inception to interpretation, this character is the most bland nothingburger I've seen in a BL series for a while. And that's really saying something.

I'm actually glad that they gave the character of Way to Nut, because it is a character that can only work with an actor that understands nuance. In the wrong hands, Way would be the worst kind of unlikeable, charmless, obstacle to the main couple that you just wish to go away. And I think it's clear that this character is supposed to be more than that, and Nut was able to imbue that character with enough sympathy, that at least I find him by and far to be the best character in the series.

I do agree that Pavel and Nut have chemistry, however. I'd love to see it explored in a future series. (She said, as if Thai actors are not forced into indentured partnerships for all of life and time and we will probably not see Pavel without the attachment of Pooh for at least the next couple of years)

I agree with this.

In the name of positivity, so that I may appease the toxic toxicity police, here are the reasons I continue to watch this series:

1. I am a completionist. For better or worse, I've committed this much of my life to the series already, I'm at least going to see how it ends.

2. The actors. Even the ones I think are more or less talented than others, I fell in love with this entire cast because I watched Boys Journey before I watched this series. I think they are all commendable with how much they've worked not only to sell the BS the writers churn out for them episode after episode, but also to go out of their way to promote the series on their own. I'm excited to see every single one of these cast members in different projects. with better writers.

3. I am emotionally invested in the character of Way and I'd like to see how his story plays out, even though I'm certain it will be a horrible tragedy one way or another.

4. Even though I seem to be hated for it, I get enjoyment coming to this board week after week to break down the critical pros and cons of each episode. I am the only person I know who watches BL content, and this is the only community I have to voice my opinions about it. So it's unfortunate that my presence in search of a shared community is met with accusations of being toxic.

To Luneify and the other members of the Way Apologist Club, thank you for making this a fun ride. To everyone complaining that this board is toxic and unfun and so horrible compared to all other boards that ever existed to exist (I mean, tell me you've never been on the OF boards, if you think THIS is toxic) 🤷‍♀️ I've got nothing for you.

A) Criticizing an actor for their performance does not mean you hate that actor. That is such an insane conflation of ideas, I can barely dignify it with a response.

B) You don't have to partake in a medium to have commentary on it.

C) Being disappointed in one actor's performance does not mean the entire show is void of quality. It is possible to like and dislike things at the same time.

Though, I will be one to maintain that Pooh, while not the best, cannot be made to take all of the blame for Charlie's poorly written character. The character was bad from conception, and then handed to hacks with no writing ability who somehow made him even worse and surface level. This character was never going to be good, no matter who played him.

THE TEN COMMANDMENTS OF THE WAY APOLOGIST CLUB

I. Way can do no wrong. Even if he's the villain. It's not his fault and the other person probably deserved it.

II. Pete/Way is the future. Kenta? I don't know her. You mean that guy that was knowingly selling children? Yeah, don't know that guy.

III. Essayists unite. Having intense and elaborate feelings about a fictional character is not only accepted, it is admired.

IV. Criticism is not the same thing as hate speech. No matter how much people try to tell you otherwise.

V. Not liking Babe and Charlie is a valid opinion. Liking Babe and Charlie is also a valid opinion. We all float down here.

VI. Nut is too pretty to be evil. And that's just an accepted fact.

VII. Way is the only relatable character on a show full of people who behave like strange cyborgs.

VIII. I don't even care if he goes full Darth Way. In fact, I'd love it. I'd rather watch that storyline unfold ten times before I endure five more minutes of a pointless North/Sonic rescue mission.

IX. I don't care what happened in the novels, even though people can't stop tripping over each other to tell me what transpired, I still don't care.

X. Obviously you must have a sense of humor. Because people who take a television show like Pit Babe seriously deserve psychiatric help. It's all in good fun at the end of the day.


If this sounds like you, congratulations, you are invited to become a member of the prestigious elite of the Way Apologist Club. If you have any questions, please take it up with the self proclaimed President, Luneify.

This message is brought to you by satire and boredom. Please do not read too much into the ridiculousness of this post.

It's pure comedy, really, the justifications of people.

Way manipulated Babe and is bad. Charlie manipulated Babe, but he's good.

Way works with Tony and is bad. Kenta works with Tony but he's just so misunderstood, you guys.

Truly hilarious.

What is this show devolving into? I swear these writers couldn't find a coherent plotline if it punched them in the face. Nothing any of these characters does makes any sense. We went from a show about racing to the Hapless Mystery Gang failing to even properly rescue someone from bad guys? What is the point of any of this? As expected, the Way heel turn is written in a way where it makes absolutely no sense. And even worse, the show isn't even being clear about it happening. Why? They did this with Charlie's character too, purposefully kept his motives hidden for absolutely no reason, and that ruined his character. Don't write intrigue if you don't know how to pull it off, because all you'll get is a muddled mess and completely unclear character motivations. These writers are starting to make me agree with the obnoxious posters on here that constantly ask why I'm still watching this show. At this point, I'm asking myself the same damn question. Why the hell am I still watching this show that manages to squelch any goodwill it earns with bad writing, bad character development and bland romantic scenes? I'm a completionist, and that is my greatest downfall, because if I hadn't already commited eight hours of my life to this mess, I'd quit here. But I'm already deep enough in that I at least want to see how it ends. But I'm no longer under any delusions that the ending will be good, or worth the twelve episodes before it.

I'll be out here defending Way until the cows come home, or at least until the show stops writing him as the only character that acts like a human would. But since that doesn't seem to be happening any time soon, I'm on board the Way train.

Have no fear, the Way Apologist Club has reconvened. Lol.

I don't hate Way either. To me, he's the only character that I feel anything for, because all of the others are so weirdly emotionally void to me- especially Charlie.

As for them getting back together, it wasn't the quickness of the way it happened that bothered me, it was that in order to put them back together, it felt like the show skipped over an important emotional honesty moment for Babe and Charlie, and traded it in for a pointless cheap NC scene instead. I was hoping learning more about Charlie's motivations would help me understand his character better and make the chemistry between Charlie and Babe more palpable for me, but they just skipped over all of the emotionally interesting tension, so ultimately nothing changed, including my feelings about Charlie and Charlie and Babe as a couple.