AleksandraSucur

Now I finally understand what did you imply yesterday with "end result". It appears logical: if A occurs in the drama then - whatever happen in between - it will result in B, because B was the result of the occurrence or subplot in the novel, but notwithstanding it's the wrong method to evaluate the level of similarities, because the basic structure of a narrative (both filmed or written) relies on ACTIONS taken by the protagonists. Actions determine constitutive elements of story telling, that's why they are also called "the morphology of the story" while characters are its "syntax" and with dialogues somewhere between, sometimes they can be counted as actions and sometimes serving to better describe the characters.
If you take the story-telling "grammar" as a measure, you'll notice that S2 greatly differs from the novel: the whole "fake death arc" never happened in the novel, the brothel story happened differently: in the novel there was no witty confrontation with the 2nd prince, CP arriving & playing a fake dumb "I don't see FX", Fan Sizhe in the novel is totally aware of the criminal business he was doing, not showing any remourse, his beating by FX (finally, that one thing happened in the novel) was inflicted for different reasons (as a demonstration that Fan family punished its member involved in criminal doings in order to clean themselves up), and what to say for a total lost of FX's moral compass by murdering three witnesses of his brother's criminal activity? All characters in the novel are deranged, yes, but differently, some more (the very FX) and some less (the second prince). The "family dinner" with the emperor never happened in the novel, as well as the entire course of action that brought us to the memorable today's scene in the court. Because the main and unexpected helper (Lin Ruo Fu) is not the prime minister any more in the novel, he's already retired, Lin Wan and FX are already marrried (they've married before his trip to Beiqi). For the Sizhe's ambush... till now we don't know whether it will happen or not, in the novel this ambush never happened and he calmly arrived in Beiqi. And so on.
I admit there were strong similarities in S1, at least in the part I've read (Beiqi arc), but in S2 the scriptwriter ought to re-write and re-construct 90% of the unconvincing story from the novel (that's my opinion), or due to the "Chinese censorship" (that's your opinion). Yes, even in this season he followed few patterns from the original novel, but they are few: the Beiqi princess really opposed to be pissed off by her to-be-husband at the city gates, and Sizhe involvement in the brothel story did occur together with his brother's "punishment and exile" (but for different reasons comparing to the novel), now, tell me, how can you say: "The drama did not deviate a lot from the novel."?

😊

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Aisin-Gioro
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgen_Gioro

Gioro (Juéluó in Chinese) is the old name for the city of Harbin/Yilan in Manchuria. Aisin means "gold" in Manchu language, it's the "Mukūn" of the imperial clan which united with "Hala" (Gioro) makes a family name.
Irgen Gioro is a family name of one of the 8 noble Manchu houses/clans and 8 banners (with right to unite through marriage with the imperial family). Although "Irgen" means "commoner", they belonged to the nobility class. The legend says they are discendants of the last Song Dinasty imperial family members captured by Jin (i.e., by Jurchens-ancestors of Manchurians).

there's no need to be so offensive. VincentGoh expressed his opinion which you may share or not. I share it because tendencially it is true. On average, k-drama put more money in drama productions, they give more time to the writers of dialogues (which make these authors better scriptwriters), more time to the actors and crew to prepare themselves for the roles/tasks avoiding overworking etc. The authors don't need to drag the plot in order to produce as much episodes as possible because they need money from ads collected during the airing time. No miracle the products are (in general) more professionally polished. But this fact doesn't mean that among numerous c-dramas there won't be several we like a lot and among k-dramas many we will dislike. Drama is a drama, no matter where it was produced.
Btw. what he (or she) said doesn't look like a k-drama fan to me at all, while your reaction is a complete overtone.

100 years since the foundation of PRC will be in 2049, as some other countries (like Greece), China had an internal civil war beside the WWII, which ended in 1949

I've read only 50 middle chapters, in English translation. I explained above why I've checked those chapters. Browsing the rest, I've noticed the lenght and the sc. Chinese-boxes narrative technique used by the writer. This technique allows an easy linking of different sub-plots and such novels are also frequently used as rough bases for drama productions because the final creators can easily chose which plots, patterns and characters to include and which to drop out or modify, according to their own needs, they are a sort of "drugstore of stories" ready to be cherry-picked.
I've dropped Ever Night drama, never heard of others.
I respect your opinion which is different than mine, evidently we have different tastes, but it's ok. The tastes can also change in our lifetime: there are books I didn't like when I was young which I appreciate now and others I now can't believe I loved when I was young. When I was young, I liked novels of a French writer Daniel Pennac who also published a few essays on literature, interesting because written from the pov of a reader and dealing with people's need to read. For him, it was ok to start a book from whatever point or chapter and to drop it or suspend the reading whenever we feel so, because our reasons to read are as strange, intimate and personal as our reasons to live. One day, I've dropped his latest novel of the time and stopped to be interested in his writing. I suppose I felt I've learned enough from him and moved on others... 😊

and 2nd thing. I stand behind the "messy" adverb to describe what I've read in the middle 50 cpts. Your disagreement can't be justified by "Chinese censorship". As every European, I hate any kind of censorship, but when I read trash, I dream to have a power of a Chinese censor...

ah, ok, then I'm ok with your answer, tnx, but disagree they'll lead to the same solution, for that we will wait a couple of weeks.
Tnx again

how can you say "they have a different approach but the end result is the same"? The novel, at least the middle 50 cpt, are total trash, Can you please elaborate

I can confirm your statements.

this is the reason I'm so excited to see if (and if, how?) the scriptwriter will set some additional strategic goals to FX. 😎 If he does this, the S2 has a potential to be a masterpiece.

Tbh, my admiration for the scriptwriter is... immense. a few days ago I've noticed smth was "off" with that "fake death" from which FX tried to districate for 4 and 1/2 eps - too much time. As the scriptwriter didn't change since S1, I've decided to read 50 chapters in the middle of the novel and was quite surprised discovering that the messy plot in the novel was completely re-written. But it was the only reasonable and right decision. Exactly as you, I haven't read the whole novel, but, those 50 chapters were such a useless trash that they were painful to read. My conclusion was: rather than giving up or using unpresentable plots, which would certainly badly damage the overall drama (and FX as a character we know and so well delievered by the ML), the scriptwriter repaired it at the cost of time the "reparation" would inflict to the narrative structure and the main character (who practically completely lost his moral compass in those chapters of the novel). The scriptwriter also used some of "the inner plots" in the novel, modifying and recombining them: the ML's inner struggle (what is good if I'm powerless) and the brothel story of his brother, smoothing greatly Sizhe character from the novel (in the novel, Sizhe is 100% criminal, aware he was doing bad things and after beating - occurred only to clean Fan's family reputation - FX helps him as nothing happened).
This scriptwriter turned shit to gold, imo.

well, a few days ago I've noticed smth was "off" with that "fake death" from which FX tried to districate for 4 and 1/2 eps (it was simply too much time for the narrative structure of JOL as we know it from S1, no wasting time, right?). As the scriptwriter didn't change, I've decided to read 50 chapters in the middle of the novel and was quite surprised discovering that the messy plot in the novel was completely re-written. But it was the only reasonable and right decision, I haven't read the whole novel, but, believe me, those chapters are such a trash that they were painful to read. After discovering this fact, I admire the scriptwriter (and other creators of this drama) even more: rather than using an unpresentable plots, which would certainly badly damage the overall drama (and FX as a character we know and so well delievered by the ML), he repaired it at the cost of time the "reparation" would inflict to the narrative structure, logics and the main character (who practically lost his moral compass in those chapters). The scriptwriter also used some of "the inner plots" in the novel, modifying and recombining them: the ML's inner struggle (what is good if I'm powerless) and the brothel story of his brother, smoothing greatly Sizhe character from the novel (in the novel, Sizhe is 100% criminal, aware he was doing bad things and after beating, FX helps him nevertheless). Well, if in the novel he is out of peril, I think this drama's "smoothened" Shize will be spared, too. Both from the ambush - 2nd prince's men will ambush wrong person(s) and let's wait and see how this detail will be useful for the plot in the drama, and he will arrive safely to Beiqi, where he has a business to do.

in the novel fan sizhe was never ambushed, he arrived in Beiqi

so you were referring to a character-growth? I agree with that (but neither his improvement in that sense can determine the "change of vibe" - the different vibe can be decided only by the authors: mainly, the scriptwriter and the director), he will be obliged to display his strategic-tactical talents in full swing, the struggle to survive in the surrounding full of sharks will be tough.
Now when we speak about that, I wonder will this fight also include some "strategic goals", beside the mere survival. What do you think?

I didn't get that feeling. They have a healthy father-son relationship, he can trust his father will always try to protect him.
I've got the feeling he was softly coaxing him after his parental pride was a bit hurt by the fact CPP told his son things which he was intended to say to him, as a father

I also expect S2 to be great, but disagree with your wordings.
It is the story (and not the vibe) which will become - "more political" should be the term, imo - therefore, probably deadlier -> darker.
But the vibe will remain entertaining, comic and filled with unexpected. The "vibe" (tone, spirit) is given by the method of narration (i.e. type, genre), not by the story: you can tell extremly cruel stories in a funny way and they become entertaining... being a Tarantino fan, you certainly remember scenes of torture, killing and "cleaning after" in Reservoir Dogs, not to mention Pulp Fiction etc. Roberto Benigni was granted with three Oscars and a series of other international awards for a poetic story of a man conveying happiness to his son in a Nazi concentration camp (Life is Beautiful). An impossible story but a great movie. And so on.

You are wrong, it's the opposite. S2 has the very same vibe, humour and quirkiness, sudden and unexpected twists and turns, but it's the storyline that have changed. For the half of S1, the plot was dealing with his background and basic (family, friends, frenemies and potential enemies) relations, while the other half dealt with his first mission as an imperial official which took place in a rival country where he learned that "the greatest enemy is usually hidden in our own countries".
The plot in S2 will test FX's capabilities to deal (and solve problems) with this latter kind of threats (internal enemy) and till this point we see he still preserves the same out-of-the box way of thinking and dealing with problems. So, it's a different storyline (I don't care about the change of two actors in side-characters roles or the change of OST, they are not important for the story or how it is told), but there's a great continuity because the vibe remained the same and I think this very fact should be (and actually is) greatly appreciated.

That been said, there is actually, in the storyline of S2 - I don't know how to call it - "not very smart decision", probably, to dedicate 4 and 1/2 starting episodes to his districation from his "fake death". It simply took too much time and some of the dialogues (eg. when FX, the Beiqi princess and WQN were trying to convince the members of the delegation in order to orient their messages to the capital) also suffered, but I remember there were such moments even in S1, but they didn't come after four eps, that's why they were not a big deal. For the story like JoL, the audience expects it to flow through "course of actions" (standing for right/good things and beating/outsmarting the evil), you can't waste 4,5 eps/36 for some side-dish which doesn't even make an arc on its own, so, yes, this "not very smart decision" was basically an error, I've also immediately pointed it out.

I've tried to understand the reasons for this error (because the main crew is always the same), so, I've browsed the novel... with more than 700 chapters, I can only say the author tried to compete with Tolstoi's War and Peace with his 580 characters in it - a terror of every high school student since the times when this novel was introduced as obligatory literature in the schools. But the author is definetely not Tolstoi, he arranged chapters with Chinese-boxes technique of writing as if his (or hers) intention was to be transfered on screen, so, scriptwriter (who is the same from S1), cherry-pick at your liking. Chinese-boxes technique is a story-telling method from ancient times (used eg. in Thousand and One Night, with continuous narration in which one of the characters narrates its own story, then one of the characters in his/hers story starts to tell side story and even in that side-story some character starts a second.side story and so on, which reminds Chinese boxes of different sizes put inside bigger ones), it's a collection, "a drugstore of stories" many of which are similar to each other and are not original either (pirates, merchants, local powers, eunuchs, prostitutes... just browse, and you will understand, it is not a high literature but a drugstore in which the scriptwriter must make "a wise choice" between "products" which will make FX alive).

was it from a preview?
Unfortunately, in Europe we are banned from JoL2 on we-tv, but if you share a link maybe we bypass the ban. I don't mind being spoiled. 😍