AleksandraSucur

As expected, The Idiot totally chickened out.
But the whole picture of "family dinner" is: The Good, The Bad, The Worse, The Bully and The Idiot. Chinese version of spaghetti-Western, lol, love it. 😂

It looks like FX is coming to know his four brothers: The Bad, The Worse, The Bully and The Idiot

it's ok, I'm glad I've clarified 😊

It was me, but I didn't say it was dragging (because it was not). Imo, it took a bit too much time in the plot for FX to districate from a fake death. If you focus just on the plot, on the "course of actions", you'll probably notice that this "course of actions" relating just to a "districation" took 4 eps.
I didn't say these eps were draggy or bad, I've even said I've appreciated the same vibe from S1, it's always the same JoL's humour, with its twists, wittiness (who will outsmart who), metaphores (FX on his knees in front of the emperor while watching a bug lying on its back and desperatly trying to turn around) and unexpected or weird details (even in soundtrack, who would expect yodeling?).
But, remember, JoL S2 has its own purpose and its own story to tell and the "real" (I didn't say "serious") story started only in ep 5.

Finally, I never rate any drama before it finishes (and I manage to watch it till the end, I never rate any drama I drop), so I'm not among persons who downrated it.

I refer to the pleasure house arch, the courtisan, the new prince... even the very twist to outsmart LCZ was not gripping and convincing enough.

Well, this season finally aired and my only complaint is: the new plot for this season starts only in episode 5, the four eps to explain how Fan Xian districated from a false death are a bit and unnecessarily dragged too much. And when it finally started, the subs were 🤮
On a brighter side, the JoL vibe is here again, lets hope the C-production didn't forget their "original intention"....

I agree all three of them are too stick to the past against the overwhelming tide, but would like to add two elements to your discussion about these characters in this historical environment, which support my opinion this drama contains elements of wuxia, despite not being a wuxia:
1) All of three are so stick to the past and their principles because they are deeply resented, They were all hurt by some kind of "systemic injustice" they try to overcome or overturn, that's the reason why they are even pitiful. Instead of fighting the system in decay, as Tongmenghui, they try to fight for their principles within the system, being a part of the system which wronged them (MSD as an imperial official, WJL as a rigid constable, ZBF as a sect leader who works for the prince who wants to overturn the existing establishment).
2) ZBF is not a "running dog for the court", he is aware that the court and prince Qi are not on the same side and that this alliance is only temporary. Sect people were Han, they were differently dressed, refused Manchù imposed pigtails (ZBF makes remarks in that sense) and perceived the Manchù-led officials as foreigners in the same way as they perceived Japanese or Western people. So, fighting "for the country & people" meant also overtrowing the ruling class (and the empire itself). The empire will collapse because the revolution was a national uprising (against "foreign domination"), too, that was the geist of the time.

Once I've tried to explain to a friend (who doesn't like him: too simple plots and flat characters, too much blood, fightings, cheap comedy...) that the world is divided in two: Tarantino's fans and the snobs. 😎

So, it seems another thing we have in common is that we both like Tarantino... 😎

(W)an(g)-di-stroyable 😂😂😂

that's possible, yeah... 😁the authors like to play with such subtleties, lol
Transferring someone's anecdotal traits and then... who knows, laughs.

Yes, of course - that's valid for fictional characters inspired by real characters. But Sun Wen, the historical one, is already part of this drama, he is a person whom South Shaolin master wanted to convey the treasure, he is important for the treasure-hunting plot because he is an "original destinatary" of the treasure, that's the purpose why he is included in this fiction story. Lucky may be linked to him, but can't be the same person.

Yes, of course - that's valid for fictional characters inspired by real characters. But Sun Wen, the historical one, is already part of this drama, he is a person whom South Shaolin master wanted to convey the treasure, he is important for the treasure-hunting plot because he is an "original destinatary" of the treasure, that's the purpose why he is included in this fiction story. Lucky may be linked to him, but can't be the same person.

Ah, ok. But I disagree this is a "small liberty". If he is Lucky, then it isn't only closing an eye on a fact Sun Wen was abroad (because he was exiled), but they also made him being disguised as some talkative travelling seller. Transforming a real historical person who could have normally lived with his profession (doctor and farmacist) anywhere into a fawning travelling seller isn't a small liberty, such a writer would certainly be heavily criticised... That's why I don't believe it's him

I doubt that. The historical setting is few months prior to Wuchang rebellion and Xinhai revolution, historical Sun Yat-sen was in the USA when it started, he returned only after he heard it started. We have a clear reference of the time (like in ep.8, "5th day of 4th month 1911, Magnzhong is 35 days away). Your granpa must have met him later.

Thank you for this, I was wondering why they've changed Sun Yat-sen's name. So, he was also called Sun Wen. Why Chinese can be called with so many different names?

I found a link to an article talking about the exhibition in 2012. https://www.ilogo.it/2012/02/dalla-cina-a-treviso-una-mostra-sulla-dinastia-guerriera-manciu/

yeah, but I'm not that much interested: I like to see them not necessarily to possess them :))) The curator of the exhibition I've mentioned (titled "Manciù") was a sinologist Adriano Madaro from Venice, who was also a permanent member of the Steering Committee of The Academy for International Communication of Chinese Culture and all the artifacts, including the throne, were lend directly by the Chinese government (as part of the celebration of 40 years of IT-China diplomatic relations but the interest here was so great that the exhibition travelled Italy for years). He died last year.
Returning to the book of the French author, it will jump out when I paint and properly clean my house😁 before summer holidays, then I can tell you. Fortunately, we see each other often here

I agree, especially because the other book was so detailed in depicting the society and the environment in and around the Prohibited City (eg. the cruelty of eviration of boys destined to be eunuchs which took place in a nearby street), no judments, only descriptions.
As for white washing... Europeans' attitude towards China has always been very ambigous: when opium wars started, being enamoured of Chinese culture, history, distinguishing different dinasties' artifacts or enjoying tea was a must for every noble or upper class gentleman or lady since Napoleon's times (actually, even before but not that much). In England, France, Central Europe and Northern Italy you won't find one historical palace or villa, built or renovated for living in 18th century onwards, without a special "Chinese lounge". I myself drove 350 km to Treviso just to see the exhibition on Cixi (fearing it will never come to Milan where I've reseen it two years later)... What can a person conclude after seeing her dresses, portraits and jewelry? What a craft, what a power held by a woman, a visitor certainly can't see the reality of a decay of an empire in these artifacts, they only fuel the "European imaginery of China", formed throughout the centuries, since Marco Polo's Million, which is the worst white-washing, imho. The economic relations, trade, silk roads, foreign concessions, etc between Europe and China were all built on this enamourment with objects, not on the real knowledge of each other

Yes, the Chinese author is Jung Chang, you see how small is this world? 👌I've read the Italian translation, which wasn't excellent. I can't find the French book neither in my library nor through google. I'm pretty sure it was a female author, luxury hard cover English translation (I've bought it in a second hand bookshop at Notting Hill in London in late 80'), but mantained the French style of name transcription (Tseu-Hsi) and was full of photos and documents, so it can't be Charles Pettit or other male authors proposed by google, who wrote their books before 50', this book could have been published in late 60', early 70'-ies, not before. And I'm sure it wasn't Pearl Buck's Empress of China, I've read her other books on China, but not her book on Cixi.
Yes, she is already 2-years dead at the time of this story, a little Pu Yi (in Italy and Europe in general, everybody is familiar with his life because of Bernardo Bertolucci's The Last Emperor) is on the throne, but the geist is the same.
I've studied Chinese Contemporary History (which starts at the beginning of 20th century) at the University of Milan under Enrica Collotti Pischel, author of The History of Chinese Revolution (containing the only Western-written biography authorized by Mao in 1972), she was also the only person China and USA agreed upon to be the official English-Mandarin translator during Nixon's secret visit and the meeting Mao-Kissinger in 1972. She was a great historian and an excellent prof, she (together with another prof. of The History of International Relations) is the true reason why I'm familiar with th C-contemporary history. 😊