W two worlds Season 2 sc

Thanks, good resume.
I don't like the thing about "replace themselve", not accurate in this kind of SF. I feel it's a short-cut to not complicate too much and focus more on the other points. So I can understand why the writer makes that. Now, we can just accept it's the rules of her universe and stick with that.
"can not move beyond my origin point". It was something I guessed before but without any proof. Or maybe there was an hidden clue in the drama before that made me think that, without remember what.

Great discovery! Wow! Say-me, you watched the episode twice ? ;-)

The problem is I can't see a woman fall in love with Manok. So maybe. But now I think more about that... Manok is a criminal but he don't look like a raper. Or I missed something before. I don't remember the list of his previous crimes.

lol, I saw the tracker too, but forgot too at the end of episode. I was thinking about a lot of other things at this point.
I was asking myself: why the ghost don't help him in the building after the prison break. Then remember they said before: the ghost probably do nothing, because now the ghost know they set-up a trap for her, in the previous timeline. Yeah, we have to think about a lot of things during the episodes, and during this time, we miss other things.

Yeah, and anyway, it's more the kind of plot we could see in a kmovie, something like old-boy. Not a plot of kdrama. Too harsh. And I was wrong about the DNA thing too. As SB is fully related to Manok. It's more like he could be her brother.

Oh s..t, you are right, I forgot something : the ghost said the time she comes from. Was something like 2090. So it needs one more generation. Grandparents. The attitude of SB during the episode and the cliffhanger gave me a wrong idea.

It's probably that, so it avoids the writer to set-up a rape scene. (see my comment later). But in another way... it's weaker and far less provocating.

Really the best solution if you don't want to hurt your nerves. ;-)

Take it like that if you want. Never trust rating here. You can miss good dramas, or watch badly overated ones. Just make your own opinion.

See the cliffhanger. Manok escape but miss the FL car just for two seconds. Then the ghost is on a moto and sees that. Logic is next episode: Ghost come back in time and help Manok so he escape right in time to go in FL car. Then, it's a bit like a date... It depends if the writer have the balls to do that. But with what we get from the story before, Manok and FL have to have sex and have a girl... the ghost. Or at least, have another child and this child will give birth of ghost. Basicaly, the ghost organise a rape in this case. But because the DNA test isn't sure 100%, maybe there is a plot-twist (that's help the writer to do something less immoral), and the ML is involved in the birth instead of Manok. I don't know yet, we'll see.

For many reasons we got before, it was obvious than ghost and janitor son was related. It's even a thing we guess since the start, even without clues. What is nice here, it's with who else he's related. Answer in episode 9.

I don't care about the rating here, it means nothing.

Some points are still confusing, or just it's easy to miss a line or forget a line. I'm a bit in the same case than you. Then someone talks about the DNA test. And when watching I think it was obvious, but then the comment say it's a probability (and quite low), so I know I missed something in the line. The line wasn't catchy enough to say it loud.

Episode 9 is good. Of course, as I expected, it don't answer to some holes in the time travel process, but go all in... about the family and character stuff.
It start with a very long dialog scene. Objectively, not a good one. Not enough visuals and flashbacks, and should have been spread before, with some voice over or anything. Still, it's the best thing could do the writer at this point. We can have a good resume and understand everything at this point. So later... the mind-blowing scenes or twists have a strong basis and are entertaining. I have an idea of what the cliffhanger could lead, but can't tell it here, need a spoiler tag.

Probably, I think you found the ultimate proof, bravo!

Do you remember what gesture from the future he did? I missed that.

You really don't understand anything... I explain clearly that it is not a time paradox. It's just logic. But the screenwriter doesn't care about logic. Do I really have to explain again?
- Lee Gon goes back in time and saves the child Lee Gon.
- Lee Gon uses the strange dimension to go to the future by successive jumps.
- During this time Lee Gon as a child grows up and becomes an adult little by little. As far as I know, the royalty is still working properly. And even the bodyguard confuses Lee Gon traveling in time, with the other Lee Gon, during a scene.
- Lee Gon arrives in the present... Lee Gon as a child is now an adult too.
- So there are logically two Lee Gon at this moment.
By what sleight of hand is this not the case?
The child Lee Gon has his own life, his own history. He is an independent being now.
And suddenly, HOP, he disappears?
No paradox here, just a fact that the scriptwriter voluntarily chooses to forget.
She chooses not to talk about it because it makes no sense, it's taking the audience for fools. Except that any intelligent and logical spectator would not let something so crude pass.
The only thing that comes to mind is just... Another plot hole in this endless series of nonsense.
The only way to make such nonsense stick is... difficult... A divine intervention?
Some sort of esoteric scene in which we see the two Lee-Gons merging into one?
I mean AT LEAST to validate some concept, even if it's wobbly.

And I don't explain again why the scene of the first discovery of the strange world don't stand. Damn-it, I explained all, with any of the confusions that such a thing trigger in the audience brain.

I'm Ok with this explanation, and overall, this drama gains more from being explained this way, even if it's not an excuse to sweep so much under the rug. Sure, for this scene, we know he has a way to get there. But it's impossible to know that it's only a free pass. Because then, the drama shows us the strange world only accessible from the portal. And for a lot of episodes, this scene remains incomprehensible. And when we have the explanation, unluckily, it is probably not the right one. It wasn't the passage through the portal. It was not a flashback but a real time scene. Which could have been guessed right away, except that... There are the guards on horseback that contradict this. And anyway, we don't see anything about the passage from Lee-Gon's world to this strange dimension. They are a set of logical details that contradict each other.

I'm willing to step into the writer's shoes. Wow! I have a great idea for a dimension in a strange world. When do I introduce that idea and an aesthetically superb scene to show it? That's the whole question. And what do I do to make this scene have a context (surrounding scenes, before/after) and be readable. So that the viewer is captivated and is faced with a mystery. All of this takes preparation and logic. If the scene is thrown randomly like here, it doesn't work.

The people who will understand are those who are addicted to drama and never exercised logic while watching, and they probably won't understand it at first watching. Or if they can, they forget or ignore the inconsistencies around it. Except that a spectator who pays attention to the details is more likely to be lost.

I think this is the great difficulty that a scriptwriter must have, to make the story clearly understood by a maximum of people. And especially to make it understood from the first watching. The very moment the episode is watched. It doesn't mean revealing a mystery, just making sure that everything is clear on the screen and in the narrative continuity. It doesn't mean telling a silly story where the viewer doesn't have to think. But to proceed in layers of depth. And the surface layer should always be clear, no one should be lost in the action, destabilized by logical loopholes or incomprehensible rendering.

There is also another problem, related to the concept: if at a given moment too many unanswered things accumulate (even things that are not confusing), there is a "house of cards" effect. The spectator becomes unable to make sense of and believe in the concept. Therefore, proof of the concept must be provided. And this is all the more valid to do when it is done for elements that do not need to be hidden. If it's not necessary to hide, you might as well be explicit. By having regular proofs of concept, the audience is willing to buy into the fiction because that fiction has a logic. Otherwise, the suspension of disbelief crumbles and disappears.

Often, this can be done through redundancy, an explanation, an additional scene that allows for understanding. This is difficult to do because it can be off-putting. But lots of writers do it perfectly. Just look at Back to the Future 2 for example. One situation has 5 redundant explanations, it's really a lot, but each step is interesting. So these scenes must be exciting in themselves. But often, writers have this tendency or get this feedback: if it has already been said, there is no need to say it again, it's a waste of screen time. The problem is when the way it was said is not detectable. So it's as if nothing was done.

Finally, the writer should not sweep things under the rug. Something happens, but suddenly it disappears. It's never mentioned again, even though it needs an explanation. The most obvious case here is in episode 14 (if I remember). Lee Gon is in the past, and he advances to the future using the strange dimension. Very nice scenes in which he meets Tae Sul younger. Except that there is an important logical element that is never taken into account. There is also the child Lee Gon who grows up normally during this time. So there are in fact two Lee Gon! But by magic, when Lee Gon joins the present time, there is only one Lee Gon. This doesn't make any sense, and the problem is that the scriptwriter acts as if everything is normal without ever giving any explanation. All this is rushed at an incredible speed while the first half of the drama wastes a lot of time for useless things. And even, Tae Sul should not have her memory from before, or it's hard to explain what she's doing there because the time has been rewritten.

If we analyze all this better, it was an element that could have been used for the story by the way. For example: There is a second Lee Gon and he is now a king. This leads to a more logical and acceptable ending, because in the end Lee Gon does not marry Tae Sul and she does not become queen (although he had said he would make her his queen several times). Now he can't be the king anymore, so he becomes a wanderer of time and space with Tae Sul.

Already I don't speak about the initial travel. Previous episode, we see them go into the portal. And the bodyguard comes to greet them. So we know they are in the other world. The problem here is the scene in the "strange in-between world".
#. Suddenly they are in another dimension.
Most of the people wasn't able to get that scene. Even the ones I know and are the best about decyphering kdrama. I mean, at this point when watching the episode. Not after rewatched the whole drama twice. Everyone was "huh?". The writer is unable to make it understandable.

Episode 5, I skip the first two or three scenes.
#. Lee Gon and Tae Sul in the woods. He tells her that he is a king. I quote the scene because the dialogue helps to establish a chronology.
#. The horse gallops down a path on a meadow.
#. Suddenly they are in another dimension.
#. The horse is at the vet's.

The "other dimension" scene is certainly very pretty and intriguing, but it is a typical case that generates confusion instead of mystery.
- The problem is that we end up there without knowing how, like all the other times. We never see anyone entering or leaving this place. Not only, there is no "tell", but especially no "show". There will never be a validation of the concept of the whole drama.
- So the audience doesn't spend its time enjoying the scene as it should, but just wondering about the order of the scenes, and the basic meaning. This is a huge problem, because as soon as the scene is over... the brain keeps working. It becomes impossible to concentrate on the next scene(s) because it's cogitating hard to resolve the confusion. And since there are at least 10 more such scenes per episode, it just becomes tedious.
- And tic-tac, all is going fast on the screen, no time for that, we need clarity...
- For example, one wonders... Is there a secret passage to another dimension in the field?
- Probably the scriptwriter simply showed the magic flute in the hero's hand just before, and thought that was enough. But no, the detail is not necessarily captured at that moment, and that doesn't solve anything either. Typically the case of cognitive deficit I was talking about, between what the scriptwriter considers obvious, and which does not reach the viewer. On a first viewing, people don't notice. And even when re-watching it. You have to have seen the whole drama to understand this.
- We also wonder... Is it a flashback or a flashforward? But in this case, why doesn't the director make it obvious? Knowing that afterwards, he will use possible flashbacks without making it clear that it is a flashback.
- Indeed, we could logically think that this moment occurs when they are crossing the portal. This will be confirmed more or less later (even if I repeat it, we never see the people entering or leaving when they are in the other dimension).
- Except that the attitude of the characters rather suggests that it is indeed the continuation of the scene with the previous dialogue, when they are in the wood.
- Moreover, the scene ends so abruptly, they are at the veterinarian's without transition. Impossible to locate the scene, the entrance, the exit.
- Scene logic problem for the scene before. If it's real time and they disapear, there was the bodyguard and 2 guards on horses. So what's happens? They see Lee Gon and Tae Sul vanish in front of them? There will be never any consequence to that (makes think so it could be a dream or a flashback).
- Confused dialogue about mathematical explanations that will never make sense. If this had been explained once afterwards, I would have gone "wow!", but it never was. So it's just a useless spiel to create a false mystery, a false mathematical impression.
- Many episodes later, and without ever having an explanation or validation of the concept, we are going to assume that Lee Gon is able to travel between worlds other than by using the portal, but by going to this dimension in another way.
- So what was the meaning of that scene now? Was it good foreshadowing for this idea? No, because this is the first time we see the other dimension, we are unable to differentiate between arriving in the dimension by the portal or by another way. Moreover, we are very surprised, and very far from being able to anticipate such things.
- And of course, we are already exhausted by many other scenes of the same kind that took place before in the drama. Dissatisfaction and irritation are gaining ground.
- Yet, not much was needed to make it understandable and mysterious. That's the worst! A quick shot on the other dimension and the characters coming out of it to arrive in the forest through the portal. A more obvious transition from the path in the meadow to the return to the dimension. Logic that's help to understand it's not a flashback, the bodyguard ask "where are them?". That we understand quickly that the other world is in the portal, but that we can also access it otherwise. Knowing that there is no interest to hide that when we know the continuation of the drama. It's hiding information for nothing. No benefit to hide, no particular plot-twist preparation.
- On the contrary, it made a good foreshadowing for the moment when Lee Gon took the long way, as much as it helped to understand this future scene... which is also equally incomprehensible at this moment. Which contributes to screwing up the meeting in the woods scene in episode 10 (a sentimental scene good in itself, but unfortunately ruined by the previous confusion).

And it's like that for everything! The drama does everything to push the audience away instead of getting them hooked. Creating confusion instead of creating mysteries. Some things won't make sense because there is never any validation of concepts. A house of cards of speculation. Even if here, for this scene, I manage to make sense (after seeing the drama twice), what I mean mainly is what is the effect of all this mess for the new watcher? Devastating. The writer didn't do a good job, that's all I can say objectively. And I could analyze many other scenes like this, some much worse than this one.