Aurora, You are conflating sex and gender, which are not the same thing. Sex refers to the biological and physiological…
The superficially "affirmative" Two-Spirit identity is a homophobic and misogynistic "imposition" of colonial gender roles. It bolsters the supposition that the manifestation of characteristics typically associated with the opposite gender necessitates the relegation of a person to a discrete "other" or third classification
The authority to conclusively define the term "intersex" doesn't rest solely with the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights. The definition employed by the studies includes subtle hormonal variations or minor genital anomalies that don't result in discernible physical differences or health concerns. They inflate the prevalence rates of "intersex" conditions
A meticulous examination of medical literature spanning from 1955 to the present day reveals the employment of antiquated terminology, diagnostic criteria, and methodologies that skews the prevalence rates of these conditions. The true prevalence of "intersex" is 0.018%, almost 100 times lower than the estimate of 1.7%
The scarcity of high-quality, long-term research on the effectiveness and safety of gender-affirming interventions constitutes an impediment to the formulation of evidence-based guidelines and policies. Existing research is based on small, non-representative samples, self-report measures, and short-term follow-up periods
Gender-affirming interventions don't address the underlying social, psychological, or environmental "causes" of gender dysphoria. They require other forms of treatment (psychotherapy or social support)
There is evidence that the people undergoing gender-affirming interventions experience regret or dissatisfaction with the outcomes. Interventions worsen mental health conditions
One of the foremost challenges with expanding gender categories is the absence of unequivocal, objective criteria by which to ascertain gender identity. Self-identification is inadequate to substantiate the veracity of one's gender identity. The system would be at risk of manipulation by those who feign a gender identity for self-serving, nefarious purposes
The binary gender paradigm has been a cornerstone of societal organization, its roots anchored in cultural traditions and scientific knowledge. Departure from established scientific knowledge would have far-reaching negative societal consequences
ok? then just forwards a minute. the world's not going to crumble because you saw a butt
With the sheer abundance of boring "romance" and "sex" scenes in media, we've seen enough to last a lifetime. The pawns and bishops would spice up our screens for a change. It'd be a fresh take on "boring"
Do you have any idea how much BL dramas has helped many of us to understand LGBT community .... We had no idea…
@AbuHammer is stubbornly set in their ways. They insist on turning the comment section into a circus and walking a tightrope of ignorance. The show is amusing and infuriating, isn't it?
most of y’all exposed yourself in the comments today 🤭
Fetishization is the sexualization of something that's not sexual. For example, the intense, obsessive fascination one might have for the humble human feet. The definition avoids the homophobic mischaracterization of a healthy fascination with gay relationships as a pathological obsession. But in the "words-mean-whatever-I-want-them-to-mean" modern world where semantics dances to the tune of your personal whimsy, (homo)sexuality (something sexual) and (homo)sexual relationships (something sexual) can be fetishized
Methinks that your all-consuming, intense fascination with gender identities and pronouns borders on unhealthy obsession. The obsession permeates every interaction you've had with BL fans. It's a fetish of sorts
We know our gay ships aren't cannon-official. That's the beauty of the shipping world. We daydream about what could be and imagine a gay fanfic universe where the male characters sail off into the sunset together. Not everyone will jump aboard our ship, and that's their loss
"... this argument is so long omg. i kept scrolling to find older comments lol"
I started the thread with one mission: to send the anti-shippers into a tizzy. Look at the length, it's longer than a pirate's treasure map, and as full of drama lol
most of y’all exposed yourself in the comments today 🤭
You're part of the "equal opportunity fetishizer" homophobic community the noble quest of which is to fetishize TQ+ people. The community patrols the internet and passes judgement on others' gay media preferences. How very progressive of you
We will create a new genre called "FiftyShadesofGender" dedicated to the fetishization of TQ+ people. Wouldn't want you to feel left out
Aurora, You are conflating sex and gender, which are not the same thing. Sex refers to the biological and physiological…
The Two-Spirit identity was a designation that denied the full humanity of non-conforming people. Those failing to conform to conventional gender roles were seen as "neither man nor woman," or a separate entity. The assignment of a third identity was an exercise in homophobia and misogyny. It wasn't a recognition of multiple genders
The studies that arrived at the 1.7% estimate relied on inaccurate definitions of "intersex" conditions. They were conducted in limited populations not representative of the global population. A stringent, accurate definition of conditions with visible atypical characteristics results in lower estimates (0.018%)
The research in the area of "gender identity" isn't conclusive. It would be hasty and imprudent to implement modifications to public policy and legislation at this juncture. The magnitude of the undertaking, the revision of legal documentation, construction of gender-neutral infrastructure, and "education" of personnel, would pose financial obstacles
Expanding gender categories will open loopholes and avenues for manipulation. For example, a person might claim a non-binary gender identity to access the benefits or resources allocated for non-binary identifying people
Binary genders have been the foundation of society for centuries. Altering them will have unintended negative consequences
Do you have any idea how much BL dramas has helped many of us to understand LGBT community .... We had no idea…
Let's grab a box of crayons, bust out the construction paper and glue sticks and turn this non-debate into a kindergarten craft project. Better yet, let's settle this with a game of rock-paper-scissors. Sounds good?
Non-binary people are those who do not identify as exclusively male or female. They may have a gender identity…
Asexuality is defined in relation to the absence of attraction towards genders. There's a gendered component. Bisexuality and pansexuality are defined in relation to attraction towards multiple or all genders. They require a recognition of gender as a factor in determining one's sexuality
The joy of a digital impasse. The art of the block. And the sweet sound of silence, punctuated by the tapping of our keyboards. Why, indeed, would I sully it with the noise of conversation when I can bask in the glow of my own brilliance?
Aurora, You are conflating sex and gender, which are not the same thing. Sex refers to the biological and physiological…
The majority of cultures throughout history had/have a binary understanding of gender. The binary model is more reflective of universal human experience
"... substantial body of research"
Their conclusions aren't unanimous. Scholars and researchers hold divergent opinions on the nature and origin of "gender identity"
The prevalence of "intersex" conditions is lower than estimated (0.018%). A rarity doesn't warrant a reevaluation of the binary gender model. "Intersex" people identify as man or woman, suggesting that they too align with the binary
Expanding the number of gender categories leads to confusion and practical difficulties in areas of public policy, legislation, and social services. A practical solution would be to promote equality within the existing binary model
Anika, you openly ridiculed me for using they/them pronouns. Who is the real homophobe here?
Media is an idealized version of reality. Are you going to say goodbye to Instagram filters? Or blame romcoms for making people believe that they will find their "soulmate" by bumping into them on the street?
BLs are the fairy tales of the community; fun, fantastical, and full of Prince Charming(s). They are a form of escapism for those of us yearning to see a gay-friendly world where love between two impossibly attractive men triumphs over all. This is a gay representation I'm satisfied with
If BLs are appropriating "queer" struggles, mainstream Kdramas are appropriating the struggles of drama school dropouts
Non-binary people are those who do not identify as exclusively male or female. They may have a gender identity…
The relationship between gender and sexuality is undeniable. Sexuality can't exist autonomously, devoid of gendered context
The terms "asexuality," "bisexuality," and "pansexuality" are imbued with references to gender, explicitly or implicitly. Bisexuality connotes an affinity for two genders, pansexuality denotes an attraction transcending gender boundaries, and asexuality signifies a dearth of attraction towards genders
A genderless person and a gay man don't have similar experiences. The severity of BL's impacts on them differ
There's an inextricable connection between a genre's subject matter and its potential ramifications. BL's focus on male-male relationships is not an affront to those who don't identify within that framework. It doesn't concern TQ+ people to be detrimental to them
"How kind of you for blocking me"
You're welcome! I figured you needed quality time with your number one fan—yourself. Do enjoy the echo chamber!
Do you have any idea how much BL dramas has helped many of us to understand LGBT community .... We had no idea…
The infamous "fallacy fallacy" rears its head again. Careful not to get lost in the fallacy forest!
Realism isn't high on the list of priorities for any entertainment medium. People seek an escape from the monotony of everyday life in the form of emotionally charged, implausible fictional relationships
For those seeking authentic representation, I suggest using a pair of high-powered binoculars to snoop on your neighbors
The objectification/fetishization of female characters in "straight" media goes unchallenged. The same courtesy can be extended to (gay) male characters
Aurora, You are conflating sex and gender, which are not the same thing. Sex refers to the biological and physiological…
The idea of multiple genders isn't supported by empirical evidence. It's a cultural phenomenon and not a fact
Evolutionary psychologists maintain that some gender-typical behaviors and preferences are rooted in biology and shaped by natural selection
Gender is not entirely a social construct separate from sex. It's influenced by underlying biological factors (hormones and brain structures) that interact with social and cultural factors to produce gender-typical behaviors
"Intersex" variations are aberrations/anomalies that don't represent a third gender or challenge the fundamental categorization of humans as man or woman
The 1.7% estimate is inflated. It includes conditions that don't result in significant deviations from the typical male or female development trajectory. Their inclusion under the "intersex" umbrella is inappropriate. In particular, the inclusion of people with non-classical congenital adrenal hyperplasia (CAH) and hypospadias contributes to the inflated estimate
"Intersex" people's rights to bodily autonomy, freedom from discrimination, and legal recognition don't imply the conceptualization of gender as a spectrum or the complete disentanglement of sex and gender
The advocacy for the rights of "intersex" people and the endorsement of a binary view on gender are not mutually exclusive positions
The discourse surrounding gender, the claim about the existence of more than two genders, is propelled by subjective beliefs, socially constructed notions, and political motivations. The term "gender ideology" is an impetus for the critical scrutiny of these presuppositions and motivations
That’s not how this works. An actor is playing a part, a fictional character. The fans and everyone else is…
Acting requires a level of immersion and identification with a character. Actors temporarily set aside their identities and beliefs to embody their roles. The act, understood by all to be a performance, is nonetheless a form of self-delusion
Correspondingly, the audience suspends their disbelief to be engrossed in the story unfolding before them. The stage or screen is transformed into a realm of imagination. Reality is temporarily suspended in favor of a shared delusion that blurs the boundaries between reality and fiction
Both actors and shippers operate within a sphere of imaginative play. It's inconsistent and dishonest to only label the engagement of shippers in fanciful projection as "delusional." Similar delusions are socially tolerated or accepted in other contexts (acting, religion, etc)
The practice of shipping real people doesn't disqualify shippers from being fans. Fans engage in different forms of creativity and speculation. Shipping real people is an emotional investment in public personas
Celebrities aren't "victims." Dictating what forms of creative engagement are permissible, telling shippers to cease their shipping and exploration of hypothetical dynamics, is an infringement upon the autonomy of shippers
Celebrities' status as public figures is a choice. By voluntarily entering the public eye, celebrities invite engagement from their fans. Their job is to navigate the complexities of their relationship with their fanbase with understanding and sympathy
NO ONE is stopping you from watching. You can knock yourself out for all we care. Your streaming on pirated site…
"Your Name Engraved Herein" has been praised for its historical accuracy and emotional depth. "Given" has been praised for its sensitive depiction of coming out
"... for its lack of diversity and representation of other LGBTQ+ identities, such as bisexual, transgender, and non-binary people"
Invalid "criticism." The indispensability of disseminating and championing "cis" gay stories can't be overstated. To that end, "cis" gay stories have a distinct genre (BL/GL). BL/GL is an oasis amidst a vast desert of heteronormativity and gender identities, a bastion that should be reserved for "cis" gay romance. The inclusion of "straight" identifying and TQ+ people would cast a shadow over and detract from the beauty of gay stories
Everyone is entitled to write gay stories. Storytelling is an experience not confined to one's personal identity or lived experiences. What matters is the quality and sensitivity of the work
The existence of BL doesn't preclude the creation and consumption of gay media by gay people
The motivations and intentions of "straight" identifying women vary. It could be curiosity, empathy, escapism, or emotional connection. The emotional intensity or intimacy of gay relationships is more authentic and egalitarian. Women are fascinated by the fresh perspective on sexuality and gender roles
Media has positive and negative impacts on its audience. The impact depends on how the audience engages with and interprets the content
The claim that BL is responsible for fostering ignorance, prejudice, and harmful expectations ignores the agency of the audience in interpreting and contextualizing the media they consume
Examples that illustrate the positive impact of BL:
Promoting empathy
BL exposes its audience to a broader spectrum of human sexuality. The heightened awareness is a catalyst for empathy and acceptance of gay experiences
Self-discovery
BL is a safe space to explore one's sexuality and reconcile one's feelings
Encouraging activism and allyship
BL inspires fans to be active supporters of gay rights. I met fans who participated in pride events
Challenging traditional gender roles
BL challenges conventional notions of masculinity and femininity. The male characters exhibit sensitivity and tenderness, traits associated with femininity, while exhibiting strength and determination, traits associated with masculinity
Increasing gay visibility and representation
BL contributed to increased visibility and representation of gay relationships
Fostering a sense of community
Online and offline BL communities are a space for fans to connect, share their experiences, and offer support to one another
The "romance" genre has historically been marketed towards "straight" identifying women
BL is a subgenre of romance. It shares the core themes, structures, and reader expectations that characterize the "romance" genre
It's not an inferior, problematically stagnant subgenre. There's potential for critical engagement and transformative readings among the audience. Fans of BL can reimagine stories and reinterpret character dynamics to align with their desires. The transformative potential challenges and subverts BL's problematic elements
The "romance" genre isn't without its flaws. It has been rightfully criticized for adhering to traditional gender roles and homophobic conventions
"This is a sexist and heteronormative statement"
The statement doesn't imply fixed differences between genders. It encourages the exploration of traits associated with femininity
"A potato that generates worse arguments?"
My arguments are a fully-loaded baked potato. I'm no small fries. You better ketchup with me
1
The authority to conclusively define the term "intersex" doesn't rest solely with the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights. The definition employed by the studies includes subtle hormonal variations or minor genital anomalies that don't result in discernible physical differences or health concerns. They inflate the prevalence rates of "intersex" conditions
A meticulous examination of medical literature spanning from 1955 to the present day reveals the employment of antiquated terminology, diagnostic criteria, and methodologies that skews the prevalence rates of these conditions. The true prevalence of "intersex" is 0.018%, almost 100 times lower than the estimate of 1.7%
The scarcity of high-quality, long-term research on the effectiveness and safety of gender-affirming interventions constitutes an impediment to the formulation of evidence-based guidelines and policies. Existing research is based on small, non-representative samples, self-report measures, and short-term follow-up periods
Gender-affirming interventions don't address the underlying social, psychological, or environmental "causes" of gender dysphoria. They require other forms of treatment (psychotherapy or social support)
There is evidence that the people undergoing gender-affirming interventions experience regret or dissatisfaction with the outcomes. Interventions worsen mental health conditions
One of the foremost challenges with expanding gender categories is the absence of unequivocal, objective criteria by which to ascertain gender identity. Self-identification is inadequate to substantiate the veracity of one's gender identity. The system would be at risk of manipulation by those who feign a gender identity for self-serving, nefarious purposes
The binary gender paradigm has been a cornerstone of societal organization, its roots anchored in cultural traditions and scientific knowledge. Departure from established scientific knowledge would have far-reaching negative societal consequences
Methinks that your all-consuming, intense fascination with gender identities and pronouns borders on unhealthy obsession. The obsession permeates every interaction you've had with BL fans. It's a fetish of sorts
We know our gay ships aren't cannon-official. That's the beauty of the shipping world. We daydream about what could be and imagine a gay fanfic universe where the male characters sail off into the sunset together. Not everyone will jump aboard our ship, and that's their loss
"... this argument is so long omg. i kept scrolling to find older comments lol"
I started the thread with one mission: to send the anti-shippers into a tizzy. Look at the length, it's longer than a pirate's treasure map, and as full of drama lol
We will create a new genre called "FiftyShadesofGender" dedicated to the fetishization of TQ+ people. Wouldn't want you to feel left out
The studies that arrived at the 1.7% estimate relied on inaccurate definitions of "intersex" conditions. They were conducted in limited populations not representative of the global population. A stringent, accurate definition of conditions with visible atypical characteristics results in lower estimates (0.018%)
The research in the area of "gender identity" isn't conclusive. It would be hasty and imprudent to implement modifications to public policy and legislation at this juncture. The magnitude of the undertaking, the revision of legal documentation, construction of gender-neutral infrastructure, and "education" of personnel, would pose financial obstacles
Expanding gender categories will open loopholes and avenues for manipulation. For example, a person might claim a non-binary gender identity to access the benefits or resources allocated for non-binary identifying people
Binary genders have been the foundation of society for centuries. Altering them will have unintended negative consequences
The joy of a digital impasse. The art of the block. And the sweet sound of silence, punctuated by the tapping of our keyboards. Why, indeed, would I sully it with the noise of conversation when I can bask in the glow of my own brilliance?
"... substantial body of research"
Their conclusions aren't unanimous. Scholars and researchers hold divergent opinions on the nature and origin of "gender identity"
The prevalence of "intersex" conditions is lower than estimated (0.018%). A rarity doesn't warrant a reevaluation of the binary gender model. "Intersex" people identify as man or woman, suggesting that they too align with the binary
Expanding the number of gender categories leads to confusion and practical difficulties in areas of public policy, legislation, and social services. A practical solution would be to promote equality within the existing binary model
I'd give the genre a standing ovation, but I'm too busy binge-watching the latest episode of "Perfect Gay Prince Charmings and their Magical Love"
BLs are the fairy tales of the community; fun, fantastical, and full of Prince Charming(s). They are a form of escapism for those of us yearning to see a gay-friendly world where love between two impossibly attractive men triumphs over all. This is a gay representation I'm satisfied with
If BLs are appropriating "queer" struggles, mainstream Kdramas are appropriating the struggles of drama school dropouts
Homophobic censorship is a travesty, and we have every right to complain about it
The terms "asexuality," "bisexuality," and "pansexuality" are imbued with references to gender, explicitly or implicitly. Bisexuality connotes an affinity for two genders, pansexuality denotes an attraction transcending gender boundaries, and asexuality signifies a dearth of attraction towards genders
A genderless person and a gay man don't have similar experiences. The severity of BL's impacts on them differ
There's an inextricable connection between a genre's subject matter and its potential ramifications. BL's focus on male-male relationships is not an affront to those who don't identify within that framework. It doesn't concern TQ+ people to be detrimental to them
"How kind of you for blocking me"
You're welcome! I figured you needed quality time with your number one fan—yourself. Do enjoy the echo chamber!
Realism isn't high on the list of priorities for any entertainment medium. People seek an escape from the monotony of everyday life in the form of emotionally charged, implausible fictional relationships
For those seeking authentic representation, I suggest using a pair of high-powered binoculars to snoop on your neighbors
The objectification/fetishization of female characters in "straight" media goes unchallenged. The same courtesy can be extended to (gay) male characters
Evolutionary psychologists maintain that some gender-typical behaviors and preferences are rooted in biology and shaped by natural selection
Gender is not entirely a social construct separate from sex. It's influenced by underlying biological factors (hormones and brain structures) that interact with social and cultural factors to produce gender-typical behaviors
"Intersex" variations are aberrations/anomalies that don't represent a third gender or challenge the fundamental categorization of humans as man or woman
The 1.7% estimate is inflated. It includes conditions that don't result in significant deviations from the typical male or female development trajectory. Their inclusion under the "intersex" umbrella is inappropriate. In particular, the inclusion of people with non-classical congenital adrenal hyperplasia (CAH) and hypospadias contributes to the inflated estimate
"Intersex" people's rights to bodily autonomy, freedom from discrimination, and legal recognition don't imply the conceptualization of gender as a spectrum or the complete disentanglement of sex and gender
The advocacy for the rights of "intersex" people and the endorsement of a binary view on gender are not mutually exclusive positions
The discourse surrounding gender, the claim about the existence of more than two genders, is propelled by subjective beliefs, socially constructed notions, and political motivations. The term "gender ideology" is an impetus for the critical scrutiny of these presuppositions and motivations
Correspondingly, the audience suspends their disbelief to be engrossed in the story unfolding before them. The stage or screen is transformed into a realm of imagination. Reality is temporarily suspended in favor of a shared delusion that blurs the boundaries between reality and fiction
Both actors and shippers operate within a sphere of imaginative play. It's inconsistent and dishonest to only label the engagement of shippers in fanciful projection as "delusional." Similar delusions are socially tolerated or accepted in other contexts (acting, religion, etc)
The practice of shipping real people doesn't disqualify shippers from being fans. Fans engage in different forms of creativity and speculation. Shipping real people is an emotional investment in public personas
Celebrities aren't "victims." Dictating what forms of creative engagement are permissible, telling shippers to cease their shipping and exploration of hypothetical dynamics, is an infringement upon the autonomy of shippers
Celebrities' status as public figures is a choice. By voluntarily entering the public eye, celebrities invite engagement from their fans. Their job is to navigate the complexities of their relationship with their fanbase with understanding and sympathy
"... for its lack of diversity and representation of other LGBTQ+ identities, such as bisexual, transgender, and non-binary people"
Invalid "criticism." The indispensability of disseminating and championing "cis" gay stories can't be overstated. To that end, "cis" gay stories have a distinct genre (BL/GL). BL/GL is an oasis amidst a vast desert of heteronormativity and gender identities, a bastion that should be reserved for "cis" gay romance. The inclusion of "straight" identifying and TQ+ people would cast a shadow over and detract from the beauty of gay stories
Everyone is entitled to write gay stories. Storytelling is an experience not confined to one's personal identity or lived experiences. What matters is the quality and sensitivity of the work
The existence of BL doesn't preclude the creation and consumption of gay media by gay people
The motivations and intentions of "straight" identifying women vary. It could be curiosity, empathy, escapism, or emotional connection. The emotional intensity or intimacy of gay relationships is more authentic and egalitarian. Women are fascinated by the fresh perspective on sexuality and gender roles
Media has positive and negative impacts on its audience. The impact depends on how the audience engages with and interprets the content
The claim that BL is responsible for fostering ignorance, prejudice, and harmful expectations ignores the agency of the audience in interpreting and contextualizing the media they consume
Examples that illustrate the positive impact of BL:
Promoting empathy
BL exposes its audience to a broader spectrum of human sexuality. The heightened awareness is a catalyst for empathy and acceptance of gay experiences
Self-discovery
BL is a safe space to explore one's sexuality and reconcile one's feelings
Encouraging activism and allyship
BL inspires fans to be active supporters of gay rights. I met fans who participated in pride events
Challenging traditional gender roles
BL challenges conventional notions of masculinity and femininity. The male characters exhibit sensitivity and tenderness, traits associated with femininity, while exhibiting strength and determination, traits associated with masculinity
Increasing gay visibility and representation
BL contributed to increased visibility and representation of gay relationships
Fostering a sense of community
Online and offline BL communities are a space for fans to connect, share their experiences, and offer support to one another
The "romance" genre has historically been marketed towards "straight" identifying women
BL is a subgenre of romance. It shares the core themes, structures, and reader expectations that characterize the "romance" genre
It's not an inferior, problematically stagnant subgenre. There's potential for critical engagement and transformative readings among the audience. Fans of BL can reimagine stories and reinterpret character dynamics to align with their desires. The transformative potential challenges and subverts BL's problematic elements
The "romance" genre isn't without its flaws. It has been rightfully criticized for adhering to traditional gender roles and homophobic conventions
"This is a sexist and heteronormative statement"
The statement doesn't imply fixed differences between genders. It encourages the exploration of traits associated with femininity
"A potato that generates worse arguments?"
My arguments are a fully-loaded baked potato. I'm no small fries. You better ketchup with me