Do you have any idea how much BL dramas has helped many of us to understand LGBT community .... We had no idea…
Bringing up "straight" drama issues isn't necessarily whataboutism. It's a way to point out double standards or show that objectification/fetishization isn't exclusive to BL
You’re gay and you swear you’re not homophobic, but you believe there are only two genders? You must have…
The majority of the people who identify as transgender, non-binary, etc, are not "intersex." Intersex is a medical condition characterized by atypical development of the body that under normal circumstances would result in unambiguously male or female anatomy. I'm sure intersex people wouldn't appreciate their condition being co-opted for the purpose of advancing a gender identity ideology
people who complain about others discussing the stupidity of taking a gay manwha and removing the gay aspect are…
Many adaptations have been highly influential. Examples: the Harry Potter films, the Lord of the Rings films, and the Game of Thrones TV series. They have brought the stories and characters to a larger audience than their original works, introducing them to new generations of fans and breaking viewership records
Adaptations have the power to shape public perception or discourse around a story, and therefore have a responsibility to accurately represent the original work or its (gay) themes. With great power comes great responsibility
Censorship is a tool to silence political, social dissent. Motivated by artistic considerations, it has political and social implications
Art is shaped by the social, cultural and political context in which it's created. Homophobia is pervasive, and the censorship of gay works is a manifestation of this homophobia. It limits the diversity and richness of artistic expression
Artistic freedom isn't exempt from criticism, the creative process thrives on constructive feedback and dialogue. But your subsequent claim that critique doesn't "impose" external expectations on artists is contradictory. Critiquing is an "imposition" of the critic's whims and preferences on an artwork
The "critique" of BL is predicated on the false assumption that the genre should adhere to certain standards of quality, diversity, and morality. It "imposes" a standard of excellence on the art form and limits the boundless discharge of imaginative vision
Art is a subjective medium, and what you perceive as a flaw of BL, I perceive as a strength or an untapped reservoir of potentiality
The act of re-envisioning and re-conceptualizing extant works should be undertaken with discretion and regard for the original work. The erasure of gay representation is a longstanding issue, and to condone the decision in the name of artistic freedom is to marginalize gay voices and experiences
"... in a civil and rational debate"
We were having a rational debate? I thought we were exchanging creative insults
"... you have shown yourself to be ignorant, intolerant, and hypocritical. You have also shown yourself to be cowardly"
Someone's been studying their logical fallacies! Calling me ignorant, intolerant, hypocritical, and cowardly are ad hominem attacks that don't engage with the substance of the debate
"Ignorant, intolerant, hypocritical, and cowardly." A masterful deduction of someone's psyche from the choice to block you. Truly a groundbreaking psychological breakthrough /sarcasm
Non-binary people are those who do not identify as exclusively male or female. They may have a gender identity…
Sexuality is defined in relation to one's gender and the gender of the people one is attracted to. It's not illogical to ask a genderless person for clarification or further explanation
Personal experiences and identities can influence one's perspective and understanding of an issue. Questioning a genderless person's qualifications or credibility isn't the same as attacking them personally
The experiences of a genderless person would be different from those of a gay man. They aren't directly "affected by the negative impacts of BL" to have an accurate understanding of them
"... and learn to respect and accept people who are different from you"
Do you respect and accept the women who enjoy BL?
Blocking you wasn't personal, I wanted to give you space to talk to yourself. They say self-talk is the best kind of therapy
Non-binary people are those who do not identify as exclusively male or female. They may have a gender identity…
"This is why I oppose BLs, because they create this kind of attitude"
I've always been a "there are two genders" kind of person. BLs are an innocent bystander
Allow me to address the elephant in the room. Or the genderless person in the room. I'm genuinely curious, how can a person who identifies as neither man nor woman speak for gay men or understand the impact of BL? You don't have a gender, how can you be gay or attracted to someone of the same gender?
BL, by definition, revolves around the romantic entanglements of men. "Straight" identifying and TQ+ people don't fit into the equation. It's not within the scope of the gay genre
A genderless person feeling "dehumanized" by a genre not tailored to their lifestyle is as unexpected as a dog owner feeling slighted by a book on cat care. The apples-to-oranges comparison doesn't make sense
NO ONE is stopping you from watching. You can knock yourself out for all we care. Your streaming on pirated site…
"Can you name any BL work"
Certainly! A few examples of wholesome, non-rapey BLs:
Thailand
"I Told Sunset About You" and "A Tale of Thousand Stars." They have garnered critical acclaim for their nuanced depictions of gay relationships
Taiwan
"Your Name Engraved Herein," a touching story of two male students falling in love amidst the backdrop of Taiwan's martial law era, and "About Youth," an uplifting slice-of-life about self-discovery
Japan
"Cherry Magic! Thirty Years of Virginity Can Make You a Wizard?!," a comedic series featuring a healthy, consensual relationship, and "Given," an anime series navigating the complex emotion of grief and the path towards recovery
Korea
Most Korean BLs. "Where Your Eyes Linger," "Mr. Heart," "To My Star 1&2," "You Make Me Dance," "Light on Me," "Blueming," etc
BL being created and consumed by "straight" identifying women doesn't negate the value of the genre. All forms of media are subject to market forces and profit. The primary target audience of the "romance" genre is "straight" identifying women. Given the established inclination of women to consume romance, it follows that BL would attract a female audience. Men should learn from women and get in touch with their inner romantic hero
As a member of the community, I attest to the involvement of gay people in the BL fandom/community. Our engagement suggests that the genre has resonance beyond its "straight" identifying female audience. It has a positive* impact on the real world
"You’ve figured out the secret of my chip. It’s actually a potato"
A potato that generates worse arguments. That's a-peeling. Your chip has the rhetorical skills of a tuber and we are in for starchy non-debates. Please consider upgrading to an intellectually stimulating snack
people who complain about others discussing the stupidity of taking a gay manwha and removing the gay aspect are…
Adaptations carry cultural weight and reach a wider audience than the original works
Most people don't have the time, interest, or resources to seek out the original gay work. Their understanding of the story will be based on the adaptation. An adaptation that erases the gay aspect of a story denies representation to gay people
Censorship has political and social implications. Art is not separate from society, and the choices made in adapting a gay work have consequences beyond personal vision
Artistic freedom doesn't exempt artists from criticism. You should know that, you've been criticizing BL
The "critique" of BL on the grounds of perceived "unrealistic" or "problematic" elements is an "imposition" of external expectations or demands on BL creators. It conflicts with the principle of artistic freedom you're defending
Your one-dimensional "critique" of BL and our critique of censored adaptations of gay works can coexist within the framework of artistic freedom. The censored adaptation is an artistic compromise, prompting questions about the integrity of the original gay work and the motivations behind its homophobic modification
I'm disappointed that you believe your "arguments" were worth refuting. Blocking you wasn't a retreat; it was a rescue mission for my sanity
Your statement sounds like gibberish to me and smells of the Middle Ages. But you have the right to say so.I also…
Patriarchy isn't "dying"
The emergence of "sex positivity" is a modern repackaging of patriarchy that sells women. Women's bodies are possessed not only by individual men but also by society at large for their commercial potential/sexual appeal. They are unabashedly displayed and consumed by the public gaze
The public display of "sexual acts" isn't brave. It's a disconcerting, ignominious spectacle that debases the participants, undermines the value of decency and bears no relation to social progress
Where are the billions of "straight" identifying "allies" you speak of? I don't see them
"Most "straight" identifying people are homophobic" isn't prejudice, it's a summary of our collective lived experiences
"Straight" identifying people are everywhere, yes, have you seen how many of them are stuck in traffic during rush hour? We should start a movement for them to switch lanes—to celibacy, for example. Less kids, less traffic, and this rock will breathe a sigh of relief
Anika, you openly ridiculed me for using they/them pronouns. Who is the real homophobe here?
@AbuHammer is a BL know-it-all who hasn't watched or read a single BL. We’ve been calling them out for ages, and they've been coming back for more. I wish we could install a verbal filter on them
Anika, you openly ridiculed me for using they/them pronouns. Who is the real homophobe here?
Not using preferred pronouns isn't a sign of homophobia. It's a sign of someone keeping it real and calling a spade a spade, or a person by their correct pronouns
Hmmm Hello??? the writer/owner of the webcomic gave them permission to do it. At the end of the day the owner…
A wave of progress needs its cheerleaders and marching band. BL might not have been the first activist in line. It's still part of the rainbow parade
The gender identity ideology, with its "trans-the-gay-away" dark magic trick and "a-man-in-a-dress-is-a-woman" costume party, is a game of homophobia and misogyny gone wrong. Accusations of homophobia and misogyny coming from the people who can’t tell a man from a woman lack credibility
Favoring gay men's stories isn't a fetishization of gay men. Favoring superhero stories isn't a fetishization of spandex and capes. Favoring British period stories isn't a fetishization of tea and crumpets. It's called having interests
NO ONE is stopping you from watching. You can knock yourself out for all we care. Your streaming on pirated site…
BL isn't stagnant or frozen in time. It has expanded since its early days of relying on tropes and stereotypes
Rape fantasies and tragic endings don't define the genre. The majority of contemporary BL works feature positive representation and happy endings. BL creators and fans are actively advocating for "consent" and healthy relationships
Take a moment to remember the harmful "bury your gays" trope in mainstream media. The BL /GL universe relishes the joy of happy endings, undisturbed by the worry of outlandish calamities striking gay couples. It's a breath of fresh air
Representation is a journey. A journey of a thousand miles (realistic representation) begins with a single step (BL/GL). Any representation is better than none and moves us closer to our destination
Previously, you lauded fiction's "creative liberty" and its ability to do whatever it wants. BL spreading its creative wings and incorporating unrealistic or problematic elements wouldn't be a human rights violation
Your chip does need an upgrade. Repeating a lie ad nauseam doesn't make it true, it makes you sound like a broken record
people who complain about others discussing the stupidity of taking a gay manwha and removing the gay aspect are…
It's not a one-to-one comparison
"Straight" stories dominate mainstream media. Adapting a "straight" movie into a gay novel is adding representation where it's lacking. Removing the "gay" from the gay novel is erasing/taking away limited representation and setting a dangerous precedent
Artists have a responsibility to use the power of art with consideration for marginalized communities
NO ONE is stopping you from watching. You can knock yourself out for all we care. Your streaming on pirated site…
There exists a portion of gay people who find value and representation in BL/GL. We don't perceive ourselves as being fetishized or objectified by the genre
Dismissing the genre and the diverse experiences of its fans, gatekeeping who can write about gay/lesbian experiences, engenders an array of problematic implications
Next thing you know, you will be asking for ID checks at the bookstore. "Ma'am, you can't buy a lesbian romance novel unless you're a certified lesbian"
Where is the end of the slippery slope? Should we delimit the discourse on pasta to those of Italian descent? Is a non-Japanese person ordering a bowl of ramen a fetishization of Japanese people and culture?
Your logic chip is malfunctioning. A mental reboot will clarify that the creation and enjoyment of different experiences aren't a form of fetishization. They are a reflection of our curiosity and imagination
1 
Adaptations have the power to shape public perception or discourse around a story, and therefore have a responsibility to accurately represent the original work or its (gay) themes. With great power comes great responsibility
Censorship is a tool to silence political, social dissent. Motivated by artistic considerations, it has political and social implications
Art is shaped by the social, cultural and political context in which it's created. Homophobia is pervasive, and the censorship of gay works is a manifestation of this homophobia. It limits the diversity and richness of artistic expression
Artistic freedom isn't exempt from criticism, the creative process thrives on constructive feedback and dialogue. But your subsequent claim that critique doesn't "impose" external expectations on artists is contradictory. Critiquing is an "imposition" of the critic's whims and preferences on an artwork
The "critique" of BL is predicated on the false assumption that the genre should adhere to certain standards of quality, diversity, and morality. It "imposes" a standard of excellence on the art form and limits the boundless discharge of imaginative vision
Art is a subjective medium, and what you perceive as a flaw of BL, I perceive as a strength or an untapped reservoir of potentiality
The act of re-envisioning and re-conceptualizing extant works should be undertaken with discretion and regard for the original work. The erasure of gay representation is a longstanding issue, and to condone the decision in the name of artistic freedom is to marginalize gay voices and experiences
"... in a civil and rational debate"
We were having a rational debate? I thought we were exchanging creative insults
"... you have shown yourself to be ignorant, intolerant, and hypocritical. You have also shown yourself to be cowardly"
Someone's been studying their logical fallacies! Calling me ignorant, intolerant, hypocritical, and cowardly are ad hominem attacks that don't engage with the substance of the debate
"Ignorant, intolerant, hypocritical, and cowardly." A masterful deduction of someone's psyche from the choice to block you. Truly a groundbreaking psychological breakthrough /sarcasm
Personal experiences and identities can influence one's perspective and understanding of an issue. Questioning a genderless person's qualifications or credibility isn't the same as attacking them personally
The experiences of a genderless person would be different from those of a gay man. They aren't directly "affected by the negative impacts of BL" to have an accurate understanding of them
"... and learn to respect and accept people who are different from you"
Do you respect and accept the women who enjoy BL?
Blocking you wasn't personal, I wanted to give you space to talk to yourself. They say self-talk is the best kind of therapy
I've always been a "there are two genders" kind of person. BLs are an innocent bystander
Allow me to address the elephant in the room. Or the genderless person in the room. I'm genuinely curious, how can a person who identifies as neither man nor woman speak for gay men or understand the impact of BL? You don't have a gender, how can you be gay or attracted to someone of the same gender?
BL, by definition, revolves around the romantic entanglements of men. "Straight" identifying and TQ+ people don't fit into the equation. It's not within the scope of the gay genre
A genderless person feeling "dehumanized" by a genre not tailored to their lifestyle is as unexpected as a dog owner feeling slighted by a book on cat care. The apples-to-oranges comparison doesn't make sense
Certainly! A few examples of wholesome, non-rapey BLs:
Thailand
"I Told Sunset About You" and "A Tale of Thousand Stars." They have garnered critical acclaim for their nuanced depictions of gay relationships
Taiwan
"Your Name Engraved Herein," a touching story of two male students falling in love amidst the backdrop of Taiwan's martial law era, and "About Youth," an uplifting slice-of-life about self-discovery
Japan
"Cherry Magic! Thirty Years of Virginity Can Make You a Wizard?!," a comedic series featuring a healthy, consensual relationship, and "Given," an anime series navigating the complex emotion of grief and the path towards recovery
Korea
Most Korean BLs. "Where Your Eyes Linger," "Mr. Heart," "To My Star 1&2," "You Make Me Dance," "Light on Me," "Blueming," etc
BL being created and consumed by "straight" identifying women doesn't negate the value of the genre. All forms of media are subject to market forces and profit. The primary target audience of the "romance" genre is "straight" identifying women. Given the established inclination of women to consume romance, it follows that BL would attract a female audience. Men should learn from women and get in touch with their inner romantic hero
As a member of the community, I attest to the involvement of gay people in the BL fandom/community. Our engagement suggests that the genre has resonance beyond its "straight" identifying female audience. It has a positive* impact on the real world
"You’ve figured out the secret of my chip. It’s actually a potato"
A potato that generates worse arguments. That's a-peeling. Your chip has the rhetorical skills of a tuber and we are in for starchy non-debates. Please consider upgrading to an intellectually stimulating snack
Most people don't have the time, interest, or resources to seek out the original gay work. Their understanding of the story will be based on the adaptation. An adaptation that erases the gay aspect of a story denies representation to gay people
Censorship has political and social implications. Art is not separate from society, and the choices made in adapting a gay work have consequences beyond personal vision
Artistic freedom doesn't exempt artists from criticism. You should know that, you've been criticizing BL
The "critique" of BL on the grounds of perceived "unrealistic" or "problematic" elements is an "imposition" of external expectations or demands on BL creators. It conflicts with the principle of artistic freedom you're defending
Your one-dimensional "critique" of BL and our critique of censored adaptations of gay works can coexist within the framework of artistic freedom. The censored adaptation is an artistic compromise, prompting questions about the integrity of the original gay work and the motivations behind its homophobic modification
I'm disappointed that you believe your "arguments" were worth refuting. Blocking you wasn't a retreat; it was a rescue mission for my sanity
The emergence of "sex positivity" is a modern repackaging of patriarchy that sells women. Women's bodies are possessed not only by individual men but also by society at large for their commercial potential/sexual appeal. They are unabashedly displayed and consumed by the public gaze
The public display of "sexual acts" isn't brave. It's a disconcerting, ignominious spectacle that debases the participants, undermines the value of decency and bears no relation to social progress
"Most "straight" identifying people are homophobic" isn't prejudice, it's a summary of our collective lived experiences
"Straight" identifying people are everywhere, yes, have you seen how many of them are stuck in traffic during rush hour? We should start a movement for them to switch lanes—to celibacy, for example. Less kids, less traffic, and this rock will breathe a sigh of relief
This is an opportunity for you to treat others' pronouns as you'd want yours treated
BL left an indelible mark on the canvas of gay representation. We should hope for more diverse representation, and support what's already there
The gender identity ideology, with its "trans-the-gay-away" dark magic trick and "a-man-in-a-dress-is-a-woman" costume party, is a game of homophobia and misogyny gone wrong. Accusations of homophobia and misogyny coming from the people who can’t tell a man from a woman lack credibility
Favoring gay men's stories isn't a fetishization of gay men. Favoring superhero stories isn't a fetishization of spandex and capes. Favoring British period stories isn't a fetishization of tea and crumpets. It's called having interests
Rape fantasies and tragic endings don't define the genre. The majority of contemporary BL works feature positive representation and happy endings. BL creators and fans are actively advocating for "consent" and healthy relationships
Take a moment to remember the harmful "bury your gays" trope in mainstream media. The BL /GL universe relishes the joy of happy endings, undisturbed by the worry of outlandish calamities striking gay couples. It's a breath of fresh air
Representation is a journey. A journey of a thousand miles (realistic representation) begins with a single step (BL/GL). Any representation is better than none and moves us closer to our destination
Previously, you lauded fiction's "creative liberty" and its ability to do whatever it wants. BL spreading its creative wings and incorporating unrealistic or problematic elements wouldn't be a human rights violation
Your chip does need an upgrade. Repeating a lie ad nauseam doesn't make it true, it makes you sound like a broken record
"Straight" stories dominate mainstream media. Adapting a "straight" movie into a gay novel is adding representation where it's lacking. Removing the "gay" from the gay novel is erasing/taking away limited representation and setting a dangerous precedent
Artists have a responsibility to use the power of art with consideration for marginalized communities
Dismissing the genre and the diverse experiences of its fans, gatekeeping who can write about gay/lesbian experiences, engenders an array of problematic implications
Next thing you know, you will be asking for ID checks at the bookstore. "Ma'am, you can't buy a lesbian romance novel unless you're a certified lesbian"
Where is the end of the slippery slope? Should we delimit the discourse on pasta to those of Italian descent? Is a non-Japanese person ordering a bowl of ramen a fetishization of Japanese people and culture?
Your logic chip is malfunctioning. A mental reboot will clarify that the creation and enjoyment of different experiences aren't a form of fetishization. They are a reflection of our curiosity and imagination
"Straight" identifying people called us sick. You flipped the script and called them sick
If they can't take the heat, they shouldn't have started the kitchen fire