Betsuni

Hi pal, enough is enough. I am not the racist here... You are. You call Taiwanese, mainland-Chinese and Hong Konger different ethnicities. You confuse Mandarin and Cantonese. I did not want to piss you off, but I found this highly offensive and therefore put so much effort to teach you the difference. If you have a little bit of a developed world view, you will know that this is a highly sensitive topic. Calling a mainland-Chinese actress a Hong Konger is a faux pas. Same goes for Taiwan and Hong Kong, although they are on friendlier terms.

And the veneer thing and the Korean parents-thing is not a myth, but the truth. Just listen to this radio broadcast from your beloved American non-profit public radio station NPR: https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=11826937&t=1632812375163

I quote: "Mr. RAY: They sent me an email saying they apologized but their boss would not be able to hire an African-American, the instructor saying that parents probably wouldn't like it. Their parents wouldn't approve."

By the way, Japanese people are the same in respect to black people and South-East Asian people like Koreans. The difference is that Japanese people do not necessarily care about being able to speak English. Thus, this type of discrimination happens less. There is just no such high demand for English teachers.

Regarding veneers... In Korea, they care a lot about diction. So they pay extra attention to enunciation. That is why this whole veneer-thing is such a big issue over there. They want the perfect smile, but this comes sometimes at a cost.

A final tip, go discover the world. Your unworldliness and your 'muricah-peasantness seep through.

But if you cannot establish the difference between Cantonese and Mandarin, how can you even determine whether someone is good or not? It is basically saying: "Wow, this performance of Jean Reno is peak German cinema". You do not realise that Jean Reno is speaking French the whole time. In fact, with Shu Qi it is even worse. You are applauding her for her performance, whilst she is criticised for her broken Cantonese. It is as if you are telling me that Sofia Vergara is one fine actress, ignoring the fact that she hardly speaks perfect English.

You have a great movie taste, but you are watching everything from a very superficial angle. I do not want to offend you, but you have to realise that you are also a little bit ignorant. What you are doing is basically what all these Korean parents do. They want a white person teaching their kids English, because their appearances match the parent's idea of a person that speaks good English. However, they do not realise that the person is Russian. Instead, the Black-American is someone who is more qualified to teach their kids English.

The reason that I asked you what you thought of HK and Korean actors in Hollywood is because of this reason. Once you hear them perform in English, you realise how bad they are (which they normally can mask as foreigners do not understand the language). For a native Cantonese speaker, Shu Qi would be the equivalent of the Asian actress in Hollywood. I am not fluent in Cantonese, but even I hear how off she is. This is also the same reason why many Koreans found Squid Game lackluster (also in terms of acting). It is because they understood the nuances and thought "meh".

Yes, but Margot Robbie speaks English and even adjusts her accent to American to fit in. She is the equivalent of Faye Wong and Carina Lau, who I explained earlier are technically mainland-Chinese, but speak Cantonese and therefore can be counted as Hong Konger.

Gong Li and Zhang Ziyi only speak Mandarin, even in HK-movies. So it is ridiculous if you name them as good example of Hong Kong acting. If you put Zhang Ziyi as Hong Konger, you might even call her an example of good Japanese acting. She acted also in Japan. Also, both Gong Li and Zhang Ziyi have a much bigger repertoire in mainland-Chinese movies than Hong Kong. Gong Li is the muse of Zhang Yimou. They only appear sometimes in HK-movies and only in big productions by guys such as Wong Kar-wai.

Do not get me wrong, but I figured that you might be totally clueless the whole time and thought that they were acting in Cantonese. You only looked at their presence and thought that they were great, but you have zero understanding of the subtleties.

Although you are comparing Watanabe with Sol, I figured that when you accused Nobody Knows and Shoplifters of bad acting that you were pitching them against a whole different standard. Your standard is Choi Min-sik, but the equivalent of the actors in Nobody Knows or Shoplifters are more like Lee Min-ho or Han So-hee. The Wailing and Peppermint Candy are Korea's finest movies and should be pitched against Seven Samurai or something.

You are walking a slippery slope again. The actresses you named are not Hong Kongers, except for Anita Mui and Sylvia Chang. Shu Qi (who is Taiwanese) speaks very poor Cantonese. The others are Mainland-Chinese or Taiwanese and do not speak the language at all. I think you fell in some sort of trap. Because many of the actresses that appear in HK-movies are either redubbed or even better, they communicate in Mandarin. You apparently miss this subtle fact when you are consuming HK entertainment. For people that speak the language, you notice how incoherent and stupid this is.

What I am trying to say is that are not really appreciative of Hong Kong acting per say, but rather Mainland-Chinese or Taiwanese acting. Wong Kar-wai's movies are also so international that the main roles are often portrayed by non-Hong Kongers. Outside Tony Leung, Maggie Cheung, Faye Wong and Carina Lau (both Faye and Carina are technically mainland-Chinese as they were born there, but they made their mark in Hong Kong), he often uses mainland, Taiwanese or even Japanese and Korean actors and actresses (Kimura Takuya, Song Hye-kyo).

Finally, you are not comparing apples-to-apples. Choi Min-sik, Song Kang-ho, Sol Kyung-gu are the Robert Deniro, Al Pacino and Jack Nicholson of Korea. Even SG's Lee Jung-jae is a tier 1-Korean actor. It is not fair to compare these people to the cast of AIB or Nobody Knows, as these actors are either child actors or popular actors that are more comparable to your Chris Pratt's of the world. However, it speaks volumes that the director can cast a bunch of popular and inexperienced actors and make a movie or drama that is of such a high quality.

By the way, if you really like gangster-flicks. You should give The Naked Director (Season 2) another try. It turns into one graphic yakuza-flick as the main character gets involved with the yakuza. The ending of Season 1 was already one graphic yakuza-flick, as the main character got himself in legal troubles. The authorities did not like his open view on sex. But season 2 takes the crown.

Now we are talking. So you are interested in gangster flicks. Well, for HK movies, I found Johnny To's Triad Election 1 and 2 very good.

For Japanese Yakuza-related shows/films:
- Giri/Haji (a co-produced drama with British broadcaster BBC)
- The Blood of Wolves 1 (2018) and 2 (2021)
- Takashi Miike's Black Society Trilogy: Shinjuku Triad Society (1995), Rainy Dog (1997), Ley Lines (1999)
- Anything of Takashi Miike will do such as Ichi the Killer (which you already have seen), Dead or Alive):
- The Yakuza Papers

Regarding to movies that were influential in the nineties. You will often hear movies such as Love Letter etc.

By the way, I really would advise you to learn to appreciate the overacting-style of the Japanese, it would open up a new world to you. It also makes it easier for me to recommend you more works. Also, the Japanese are not bad actors at all. It becomes obvious when you put the Japanese, Korean and HK-actors in Western productions. Chow Yun-fat is very unnatural in Hollywood movies. Same can be said of Lee Byung-hun. But have you seen Watanabe Ken, Sanada Hiroyuki, Asano Tadanobu or Kikuchi Rinko? There is a reason that Japanese actors cross-over much easier in big Hollywood productions than HK or Korean actors. Perhaps it is racism. Or HK and Korean actors are actually not that good.

I speak Japanese, Korean, Mandarin and some Cantonese. Koreans have a tendency to slur due to their veneers. Especially idol actors do it, but also critically-acclaimed actors such as IU and Han So-hee. In HK-movies the actresses love to use lazy sounds. For example, when they will say the word "I" 我, they should pronounce it as "ngo5", but instead they pronounce it as "o5", thus swallowing the "ng" completely. They do this with 80% of the words. In English, it would be like swallowing whole letters. For example, if you say "How are you doing?", a HK-actress would pronounce it as "Ow u ooing?". There are great actors in HK, but actressess? Perhaps Maggie Cheung, but that's about it.

Since Japanese actors are trained more in the theatre-style, they focus on their expression, diction and voice. So whenever they make the cross-over to the US, they just tone down everything and it works. Sorry for the rant, I just want to get this off my chest.

Fair point, I am just explaining to you that Japanese movie acting is very similar to theatre acting. It is different, but that does not mean it is bad. It is about the interpretation. Japanese people see acting as an art form. Thus, their movies contain excessive/ overacting, whilst Western people see movies as a reflection of reality. Thus, their acting is more natural.

By the way, I do not know why you think HK cinema is any good. The days of HK cinema have been over since 1997, when HK was given back to the Chinese. If you are talking about the glory days in the 90s... Well Japan was still at the top of their game in the 90s.

When Japanese cinema died, HK cinema died as well. I admit that Korean cinema is currently at a very high level. It started with My Sassy Girl and Park Chan-wook's Vengeance trilogy (which by the way heavily inspired by the Japanese Lady Snowblood-movies). But HK cinema? I argue that the quality has never been so low. From all the East Asian countries, HK delivers the lowest quality productions. In fact, Japanese cinema has won an Oscar for Best Foreign Movie in 2008 for Departures... Shoplifters won the Palme D'or at Cannes. Wheel of Fortune and Fantasy won a Silver Bear in Berlin. I cannot recall any recent HK movie that received the same appreciation. Add the Taiwanese and some mainland productions and I rate HK cinema at the bottom of the pile. And I think many experts would agree with me.

Ok, My Sassy Girl is about a "girl" who does not have a name that abuses the main character. That is cancel-worthy. But let's pause this topic and instead talk about the rest of your post.

A movie such as Nobody Knows is also very cultural-specific (just like any other Kore-eda-movie). Why are the youngest kids not able to attend school? Because there is still a negative bias against kids that are born out of wedlock in Japan. In America, there are plenty of teenage moms with no dads. Another movie by Kore-eda (Like Father, Like Son) is also very Japanese. It is about two babies that were swapped and put with different families by a jealous nurse. In America, people would have less issues with it. They could accept the fact that the swapped baby may not be their blood, but since they raised them, they are still considered their child. In Asia, blood is thicker than water. Even if they did not raise the kid, the fact that he is blood-related makes them love them more than the kid they raised. The movie showed the conundrum of the parents and would only work in a Japanese setting.

Also, Shoplifters and Nobody Knows are very typical Japanese films. Japanese movies are known for long pauses with little conversation. This is very different than the bombastic action movies of Hong Kong or Korea. Japanese people have this concept of "honne and tatemae" where they surpress their emotions to the outside world.

Your answers definitely show that you are an American with a limited world view. Do not take this as an insult, because I will explain it now. One of the most critically acclaimed directors in the world that is put next to Kubrick and Hitchcock is not someone such as Hong Sang-soo, Bong Jang-hoo, Park Chan-wook, Ang Lee or John Woo. It is Kurosawa Akira. He is famous for films such as Seven Samurai (higher rated than Parasite on IMDB), Rashōmon, Yojimbo and many more. It is full with overacting of Mifune Toshiro. But real movie connoisseurs appreciate it. The fact that you say that Japanese cannot act, shows you that you have not dived into the Japanese-specific method of acting called kabuki. Hong Kong and Korea do not have their own acting style - they merely copy the Western method of acting. Another great Japanese director is Ozu Yasujiro and Beat Takeshi (who you seem familiar with).

Also, the Japanese had a huge impact on creating new special effects-styles via their tokusatsu-movies. Were it not for movies such as Godzilla (1954), we would not have the Lord of the Rings-movies. Peter Jackson (the director of LOTR) is a specialist in making miniatures to create special effects. It was the Japanese who introduced us to this method of movie making. Another invention was the "man in the suit" to play a monster. Vox has a great article about Tsuburay Eiji's impact on film making: https://www.vox.com/2015/7/7/8903803/godzilla-movies-eiji-tsuburaya-origin-history

Although we do not agree with each other, I find you quite informative and nice to talk to. However, do realise that your American and recency bias is very clear. On IMDB, there are more Japanese top-rated than South-Korean or Hong Kong movies. However, you need to be a real movie lover to actually have watched them. But if you are an aspiring director, all of them will know Kurosawa and Ozu, who are put next to Hitcock and Kubrick. For example, Quentin Tarantino really loves Japanese cinema and even took inspiration for his movie "Kill Bill". See this link: https://wiki.tarantino.info/index.php/Kill_Bill_References_Guide/Japanese_Cinema If you watched Kill Bill you will see a lot of excessive and overdramatic scenes. Many call it brilliant, but it is actually inspired by Japanese cinematography.

I gave you examples how the Japanese impacted the Western movie industry. Even in the cartoon-world, Miyazaki Hayao (Spirited Away, Princess Mononoke) and Studio Ghibli's impact is only surpassed by Walt Disney. In my opinion, you overvalue HK and especially Korea's impact too much. I have thought of ways that Korean and HK-movies changed Hollywood and quite honestly I could not think of something. They are not innovators, but rather people that perfect other people's innovations.

I agree with you on the first season, but in the second season everything went down south. Until the point that there was utter destruction and failure. Hence why I appreciated it. But fans of season 1 were like: "But why didn't XYZ had a good ending". And that is ridiculous.

Also, I do not believe I am hypocritical. Nowhere did I write that I did not join the party of inflation and deflation. I only said that your argument that there was no suspicion of grade inflation on this website is wrong. But thank you for giving me another argument to support my thesis that there is grade inflation on this website, because I am the living example of it. So there is an example of grade inflation on this website in the form of me.

Also, "good films speak beyond culture" is a bullshit argument. I have seen many films on your list as well. And for sake of argument, My Sassy Girl is a film that is cancel-worthy by the woke generation. Sky Castle would also be a very difficult topic to understand if you live in a laidback country where they do not give a shit about education (Switzerland for example). Ip Man had a big component where white people would get offended. If you would position yourself in how Asian people are treated in the West and where Ip Man stands for, then it would be easier to digest.

You need to develop a certain empathy or worldliness to appreciate Asian cinema. From all the countries, Japan has the most quirky culture to understand properly, but gets the harshest critics, because many people on this website are from India or a Muslim country such as Indonesia with very different values. They have a natural preference for Korean entertainment as it is relatively PC, whilst Japan can be very haram regarding sex. I have experienced many times that Indians, Pinoys and Indonesians go to Korea with the idea that their culture would be very similar. But once they set foot in Seoul, they noticed that Korea is nothing like the kdramas. For fun, you should go on Reddit, where Indians are talking about the similarities between both countries. As someone who has lived in East-Asia (Japan and Korea) my whole life, I have a good chuckle on the kdrama sub-reddit.

You should not take my viewer's list too serious. I try to massage the ratings of the shows that I find overhyped or too harshly criticised.

All shows I have rated are closer to 8/10. But Squid Game is creeping up because of these fan boys, so I give it a 1 to ensure that it does not reaches abnormally and unjustified ratings. The Naked Director 2 was actually quite good, but gets a beat down, because people approaches it as a kdrama. The story is mostly non-fictional, so to wish good outcomes for certain fan favorites is ridiculous. Rikokatsu is also underappreciated, because people are using a Western, woke angle judging the drama. They put zero effort in understanding the Japanese culture and views on marriage.

Besides, a 1 or 10 is not necessarily a bullshit grading system. In fact, it would be more reliable than the current system. I mean, what value does this current system have? Does 8.5 means that a drama is 0.3 points better than an 8.2-drama?

If you use a binary scale such as 1 or 10, a score closer to 1 indicates "not recommend" and closer to 10 means "recommended". It will be come like a yes-or-no or hot-or-not scale. It would be like the Tinder for dramas. Swipe left or 1 for "pass", swipe right or 10 if you find it interesting. By the way, the fresh-o-meter of RT also does not apply a grading system. But also use a binary system.

Not totally true though, the audience score at RT is much higher for AIB than Squid Game.

No offence, but you really believe in that bullshit that there is no ratings inflation for kdramas on this website? There are plenty of dramas scoring above 8.8, which is a score that you can hardly find on IMDB. In fact, the score on IMDB for Squid Game is lower than what it is on MDL. This dissonance indicates that there is some rating inflation for Squid Game (or else the grades would be the same). Or you can argue that IMDB has a rating deflation-factor, but that is up to you...

I only agree with you that there is a ratings inflation for AIB, but for the rest of the jdoramas... Not so much...

I do not want to be an ass again. But I find you funny... One of the most heard controversies surrounding Squid Game is that it is uncreative, It was the K-netizens that started accusing this show of plagiarism. Another is the bad acting, which I do not agree with the K-netizens. It is funny that you use creativity and good acting as the strong suits of this drama, whilst they are the most used arguments to "hate" on Squid Game.

I eagerly wait for your response in finding ways to belittle me. It is "Your Turn" haha.

Think rationally and deconstruct what I said. I am not criticising Squid Game, I am criticising the director. When someone accuses another person of plagiarism or what not, you should react maturely. You don't respond by saying: "I developed this story in 2008, so I was actually the first". This implies that ATGW stole his idea and that, my friend, is beyond ridiculous. As you said, Squid Game has more layers and the children's game is popular internationally. In that regard, the director is not obliged to defend himself. However, he decided to double down and reversed the criticism and indirectly claimed ownership of the story and that he did it first. I repeat, I am not accusing Squid Game of plagiarism, I am reacting to the petty response of the director towards all the criticism.

The Japanese do rom-com very well. They are a bit quirky and awkward (as Japan has a very tradtional and conservative take on dating), but it is always multi-layered.

I am not going to debate you which show is better, but the way you write (spelling, grammar and punctuation) and the passive-aggressive tone makes me believe that you are not the right person to judge whether something is dumb or smart.

Exactly, he could talk over it and ignore it. But he tries to land a jab and I find this almost shameless.

What does that have to do with anything. Imagine if you have to copy from a "2/10"-rated movie. It is like copying the answers of the worst student in the class. It makes this supposedly "plagiarism"-case even worse.

I have an issue with the director's response. If people accuse you of stealing, your response should not be: "I wrote it earlier. In fact, I think I believe I was the first and they actually stole it from me. After all, I wrote the story in 2008 and the movie came out in 2014." I would be okay if he said something along the lines: "I was not aware of the similarities, but Squid Game was truly my idea. It is unfortunate that some of my ideas were already implemented by other productions, but that should not detract from the main plot, which is substantially different from "As the Gods Will"... Or some bullshit like that. Instead, he doubles down and counter-accuse "As the God Will" of plagiarising him. This is almost bully-behaviour...

It is very obvious that he took inspiration from "As the God Will". The odds that he came up with the same scene sequence is almost none. This form of "sampling" is perhaps not pretty, but it can be overlooked. But to have the guts to say "I did it first" is just shameless. His excuse is just laughable. Based on his line of thinking, I will sue Pfizer and Moderna tomorrow, because I came up with the idea for MRNA-vaccinations first, I only did not register it with the patent office. Imagine how this will turn out? I will countersued by Pfizer and Moderna until the point I am bankrupt.

Come on man, this director should be reprimanded properly and get sued. Not because of this scene, but because of his balls to claim ownership for something that was already done before.

Hence, why I put "mysogynistic" in quotation marks. I mean I do not find it mysogynistic either, but if this was a kdrama, you would have plenty of people accusing this drama of being anti-female.

Although I do not really care about the plagiarism accusations, I am a bit disgruntled about the director's response. He now claims that "As the Gods Will" stole his idea: "Hwang also pointed out that As The Gods Will had been created in the 2010s, after his initial idea for Squid Game. “It’s not really something that I wanna do, [to claim] ownership of this story. But if I had to say it, I would say I did it first,” Hwang added." Yikes...

I am glad that they use a litte bit more mature humour. Nowadays, dramas will get cancelled for making a "misogynistic" comment. It is good that cancel culture has not reached Japan yet.