Eleison

I actually like that older Kdramas were willing to cast actors who didn't have perfect visuals, especially when they play characters who, as part of the plot, are supposed to be "less attractive."

In dramas today, a character being "ugly" just means more acne than average (which is still a far cry from the cripplingly embarrassing amount of acne some develop), frizzy hair or imperfect skin or glasses, and no one can in actuality be short of gorgeous; and if they are not quite "gorgeous," they're tall or have a good singing voice, etc. I miss this about older Kdramas because then it was easier to believe that the ML falls in love with the FL not due to her looks, but her personality and more intangible qualities (as Shin's friend described), which is a much more substantial foundation for love.

I just feel like the trends now will continue to reinforce that you can't be beautiful or attractive UNLESS you alter the structure of your face through plastic surgery, which is not a message SK needs to hear more of... in reality some people ARE super attractive just because they have a way about them which attracts people to them and which overshadows their appearance. And it's usually because they don't fixate on their appearance and just focus on living a good life that's not constantly in comparison with others' lives. And that, ironically, makes them more attractive.

Feeling like you can be secure and proud in your looks after super reconstructive plastic surgery feels similar to feeling proud of a grade you cheated to get. Neither is really yours to claim, so neither will bring contentment but rather restlessness, as you will be endlessly afraid of exposure.

This is the only explanation that makes sense!

Either way, though, the ending is so out-of-pocket. 😂 I kinda didn't like that she strung him along about marrying him, though, and it feels even more random if they've been sleeping together already anyway. 🤷‍♀️

But I suppose he deserves to be messed with, from another perspective, since he was an awful human to her for so long.

Like Boys Over Flowers, quite problematic and toxic in some ways, but endearing in others (and overall). Quite a bit of this did NOT age well, but there were some super memorable scenes that were very well done and interesting despite being long. The main leads' chemistry was quite good; once they started understanding each other they became a believable couple, and both were, deep down, absolute dorks.😂 Would have loved more of their dating/getting along eras! It takes just a bit too long for the ML to pull out his charm for us (e.g. SO much arm-grabbing in this! 🙄), but at least we have more episodes of him being nice and cute with the FL after he does so, unlike Secret Garden where the ML is literally a jerk until the second or third to last episode. 😖

After watching old romance dramas (Goong, Secret Garden, Boys Over Flowers, The King2Hearts, etc ), I've got to hand it to the writers for turning extremely unlikable MLs into characters I can root for over the course of the series (if you make it far enough without dropping to see the arc completed, haha), but despite some of the nostalgia associated with these old dramas, I'm glad overall that we've moved on from these toxic portrayals of relationships in newer Kdramas.

This drama will not suit everyone's taste, but if you made it through the list of dramas I just mentioned above and had a decently good time, most likely you'll enjoy this one despite its flaws.

There is something cozy about old Kdramas that is not captured in newer dramas (maybe it's partly the music? The early 2000s Kdrama OSTs were certainly an era that began to change in the mid to late 2010's), and this drama has that cozy quality to it. Somehow the guys' hair doesn't bother me as much as BOFs, despite this being three years older and the styling feeling super dated in general. I rewatched this recently (and more carefully with less skipping; the adults are mostly boring!) and gave it a higher rating on my second watch, believe it or not!

P.S. If you get to the last few minutes of the last episode and think, "What the heck?" then check out @nfabjoy's spoilered comment below. She has a great theory that I found a satisfying explanation.

I've seen 150+ dramas... 😬 and While You Were Sleeping is still my #1 (same screenwriter as Castaway Diva and Start-Up). :) I hope you enjoy it!

Oh yes, I could talk scores all day long, haha. Love Love Letter is one of my favorite BGM tracks. Extraordinary You (also composed by Park Sejun and his team, like for True Beauty and Start-Up) has beautiful BGM (https://youtu.be/rSY69Q1bI1c?si=BCK2BDwzHZbzaPjd); Hwarang (https://youtu.be/EG8syzlDdI0?si=RBf5plHcCEyTUUIo) and Itaewon Class (https://youtu.be/VF9BwLcq6mg?si=uG-ssrMglUE2kbJ5) also have gorgeous BGMs (as does Goblin (https://youtu.be/eIkxii_lZFM?si=9mxvTktPpzMVk1WA)). Two sageuks with good BGMs: Under The Queen's Umbrella (https://youtu.be/G-V52z8-NM8?si=XLNoM8ULI6g6QmII) and particularly Forbidden Marriage (https://youtu.be/EOzIqZ-5liw?si=UwLal7oh3V8zmEyD and https://youtu.be/tLM2hNwFJME?si=nlleIwUvI9Y8YK_7)

I found the romance and chemistry in While You Were Sleeping much better than Start-Up; try that one; if you liked True Beauty and Castaway Diva, you'll probably like it!

Ah, well, Alchemy of Souls does have some romance in Part 1, but it focuses more on their comradarie than their romance, though Part 1 ends on a cliffhanger and Part 2 resolves it but it's also heavier on the romance. So, yeah, may not be your cup of tea?

Curious that they have Jae Wook as the lead and his spotlight in the poster is more pronounced but the synopsis is all about Jun Young's character who's listed second in the cast list. Huh! 🤔

I get why people wanted her to end up with the 2ML in Start-Up (Seon Ho was incredible in Start-Up, and Joo Hyuk did not bring the charisma and acting chops to offset him), but I'm one of those who thought she ended up with the right guy, since he was the one who believed in her when no one else did. The 2ML supported her, too, but in the way that you're supported by a coach, teacher or mentor (as someone coming down to your level, not as an equal), and certainly not as a lover. You don't douse your beloved with reality repeatedly and remind them over and over of their potentially imminent failure while begrudgingly showing your support, you completely support them in their endeavors and come alongside them in their passions. And someone can't really argue about which was more deserving; they were both liars (and each quite flawed in his own way), so that argument is moot. 😂

I'm glad I wasn't on the thread when it was airing, I heard the debates were extremely heated and intense. 😅 I think it might be one of the comment threads on MDL that has the most comments logged? I haven't checked myself, but I could believe it.

He was fantastic in Alchemy of Souls. :)

So sweet! Everyone was so adorable in this episode, and I loved the ending (Jin Su's attentiveness to Baek Du, in particular, was very heartwarming). Wish we had had more episodes/scenes with the friends back together! :)

The gentle, meandering pace was a really nice change from the typical drama, and somehow they made it work.

I usually like seeing redemption (and was just pointing out that Kdrama MLs usually have them if they're morally gray or start out awful), but I appreciate the recs and time spent explaining! :)

Haha, avoid because it wouldn't be my cup of tea. 😂 I didn't know Kdramas like that existed, haha. Korean movies, yes, but wow, a Kdrama. I guess they do go there!

All these replies are giving me a great list of dramas to avoid, haha. "Somebody," you said it's called? How do they keep the viewer invested in the drama

I guess I meant "redemption arc" in a broader sense, like a character has some kind of change of heart at some point towards the good or they are portrayed as someone fighting for a kind of justice that seems like brutality if seen to look that way, because real "justice" isn't being served, etc.

Kdramas, from what I've seen, just don't usually write (as a genre) super difficult leads to peg as a "good guy" or a "bad guy" unless they plan to make it quite obvious by the last few episodes that he's actually a good guy misunderstood or a good guy who's made mistakes and becomes a better man, or, "But it was for a good cause," etc.

But that's just what I've observed from what I've seen. :) I do think that trend and formulaic consistency is starting to change, though?

Haven't seen any of those, but it does seem more common with Netflix? It just seems that those producing Kdramas know that a good majority of their audience doesn't just watch Kdramas for good acting and clever stories/creative plots, they are looking for a certain kind of story, and one consistent thread throughout these stories is that the leads are people you can root for by the end of a Kdrama. The best (and most popular) ones do such a great job creating arcs from annoying, awful, horrible or morally gray to some kind of character who has grown significantly in one way or another by the end. I think that's why most Kdrama watchers (though not all, certainly) watch them. They can usually count on good to win by the end if they start it (even if it has a sad ending).

Hello! I'm well. :) And you? I was curious what you thought of Death's Game, as there were some very heated debates on Part 1 and 2's threads about the message being preachy and guilt-inducing vs. beautiful and life-affirming. I thought I saw you post on that thread.

100% agree that the start of Gumiho was better than the second half, but I also didn't care for some of the ML's vampire-ish qualities during their romantic scenes. But yes, Hye Ri does cute and clumsy really well and has good comedic timing :) I also thought after seeing this screenwriter, "There will be steamy scenes in this," 😅 since those were key scenes in each of the other two dramas she wrote. I was really new to Kdramas when I watched Secretary Kim, and I've come to appreciate Min Young more since watching that (loved Seo Joon before starting), but I thought the brothers' trauma transference and being kidnapped together as children was super dramatic (even for a Kdrama) and the tension and build up to their bedroom scene was drawn out too long for me. (P.S. Have you noticed that Kdramas can still successfully build romantic tension over sexual restraint? Few other cultures churning out entertainment now have any cultural or moral reasons to take things slow or show restraint in that regard so there's less and less of it being shown in film/tv; I've found only Kdramas still try to build a romantic arc around it since there's still some lingering cultural stigma in SK against cohabitation and pre-marital intercourse; it's interesting to observe how that gives them room to build that lingering stigma into their stories to create romantic tension; a western example would be Downton Abbey. After the leads got together, it got boring 😅).

I haven't seen it, but I'm familiar with the basic premise.

But doesn't he turn himself in at the end? Cause I'd call that a redemption arc. :)

I can't see a Kdrama being greenlit to include an ML who ends up being an actual serial killer without a redemption arc kicking in at some point. Totally possible with a 2ML, but THE ML? Hmmmm...

As I was writing the above, I literally thought, "Wait, is this a Netflix Kdrama?" Sure enough. Now I can believe this drama could have an ML who's a serial killer. Cause I have yet to watch a Kdrama with an ML who is evil. Morally gray? Plenty of those. But an all-out baddie? I have yet to see one. But seeing as Netflix likes to push the envelope on the Kdrama formula, it's certainly possible with this one. 😏

Yeah, sorry, all have the same screenwriter. :)

I adore Park Hyung Sik, but I'm not a huge fan of My Roommate is A Gumiho (I thought it was... boring) and What's Wrong With Secretary Kim? (sacrilege, I know) soooo... I might wait a bit longer to see how this unfolds over the coming weeks before starting it.

I'll be checking out what ya'll have to say from time to time, though!