Eleison

A musing of mine: I imagine this is a fictional town in name. The accents remind me of Busan accents, though, so I'm wondering if it's supposed to be near there? But at the same time, if this was near Busan, why would they send detectives from Seoul rather than Busan? 🤔 Curious. The most likely answer is that I could be completely wrong about the region of the accents; the way they talk just really reminded me of the accents in Reply 1997.

They might also just be focusing on characters for now, and building suspense and our buy-in with characters. Usually the mystery gets focused on later if it's not solely that kind of drama? I doesn't seem to be the main focus, but more of a means for the characters to be pushed back into each other's lives.

I noticed they spent some time showing Jin Su intently watching Baek Du's match with Dong Seok (before we really knew who Jin Su was) and he seemed frustrated at how things went down. I thought that was interesting after seeing Jin Su diss Baek Du at the reunion in the first episode. I could tell there was more to him than meets the eye. But honestly, someone could think Baek Du was a bit dim, or get exasperated with him, but dislike him? I think it's impossible; 😂 he's too nice. Even Jin Su's mom couldn't be mad at him for "stealing" 40,000 won. 🤣

Episode 5 was so cute!

They should add My Lovely Boxer to the recommendations. There are so many similarities! Way more than the other recommendations listed here.

Wait, the FL and ML are the same actors who starred together in Go Back Couple!! That's fun.

Haha, I was combining my impression of your post above higher in the thread and this one together, as well as your comments in general that I see scattered about. Literally my response: "Ooh, a @bloomingtide comment, what clever, insightful thing did she say this time?" 😂

I do think a person's approach to this issue has a lot to do with their beliefs about (or in) God or a divinity that is responsible for human existence. If someone believes it's true that a God exists, then humans wouldn't have a right to their own bodies, and are simply creations of a creator who does. People's views on this issue won't align if their basic assumptions about humans do not. Unless those assumptions align people will talk past each other, I think? That's one of the main reasons I think people disagree about this topic; because their assumptions differ (another reason might be if they are someone who had a very close family member or friend take their life). I also think that it's not a coincidence that as the "religious view" you're describing is becoming less common, suicide is becoming more prevalent. Whether this is because more people now want to end their lives than in previous times in history or whether more people are comfortable doing so because of changing assumptions is not something I'll pretend to have answers about. I suppose it could also be both.

By "innocents" you mean... who? I've never met one. Children are obviously less malicious in their meanness, and their ability to hurt others just gets more sophisticated with age, but in my experience, they are still just as selfish as the next person. My favorite line from Peter Pan by J.M. Barrie is the last line of the book: "Peter Pan will continue to visit children as long as they are gay, innocent, and heartless." I love the oxymorons found in these pairings. So insightful of childhood and childishness. And if you mean innocent as in naive or inexperienced, then yes, they are that, but not innocent as in good. Goodness is something you learn to choose, not something you're born with.

There's a book I thought of after reading your comment that would respond to your queries much better than I could. It's called The Brothers Karamazov, by Fyodor Dostoevsky. It's not short, but deeply, deeply thought-provoking and moving, and captures the quandaries and complexity of human nature very well. If you like to read and think about issues like this, you will probably find it interesting!

I always get excited when I see a comment from @bloomingtide because I will get a breath of fresh air that is constructive and filled with common sense alongside humor that makes me laugh every time. I remember enjoying your paraphrasing of episodes in Forbidden Marriage so much that sometimes I enjoyed them more than the episodes themselves. 😂 Keep it coming!

Oh, also, I've found the "Popular Dramas" category on MDL tend to be more of the comfort dramas people revisit over and over. The highly rated dramas can still be comfort dramas, but are also more likely to be in the category of super well-executed and beautifully told or written, but harder to watch or not as cozy (i.e. sad endings, more somber or melancholy, leads that don't end up together, or tough character interactions to get through, etc.). Just a note in case you prefer one type over the other!

Thanks! :) You listed some really good ones! There are some great older dramas, too, and I find tracking screenwriters is a helpful process since they are often consistently enjoyable, and if you like one of their dramas, there's a good chance you'll like their others (and you'll notice they often (not always) have consistently good ratings, too, if they have written one successful Kdrama).

Kdramas remind me of the 1st Movement of a Mozart sonata (No. 11 in A, K.331) I grew up playing in high school and which I love. I still remember parts of it from memory because it was such a favorite.

Mozart starts the sonata with a simple melody/theme. He then writes 5 or 6 variations on that original theme that are reminiscent of the original melody but still distinct and unique. Some variations I liked better than others (the ones I can still play, haha), even though all had the same "theme." I see that original melody kind of like the Kdrama formula for the various subgenres, and the different variations of the melody are the individual dramas playing in subtle ways with the formula to make something new, unique and different but still true to the formula (Marvel movies (especially up to Avengers: Endgame) played with a formula as well, and did something very similar to Kdramas with the superhero genre by using a formula and just repackaging it creatively each film; they found a great balance of mixing the familiar with the new). I think that's why many people love them (Marvel and Kdramas), because they have a cozy predictability to them that can still hold charm, creativity, somewhat unexpected reveals (if you don't predict things to death and approach with an overly critical eye 😂) and pleasant new spins on tropes or cliches because they continue to try and write variations on the theme rather than reinvent the wheel every time. :) We enjoy the way in which Kdramas mix the predictable and the unexpected (with more emphasis on the predictable, for sure). And just like how I enjoy some of the variations of Mozart's movement better than others due to the way it played with the theme, people prefer certain Kdramas over others based on how they play with the formula. I think many people who want entirely original, unexpected and unique entertainment (that aims for more "accurate" realism (usually in the more depressing or practical sense, haha) over simple enjoyment) can't stand Kdramas, and it makes sense to me why. When people watch them and nitpick permanent features of the formula, it's like listening to Mozart's 1st Movement and saying, "I would like it better if he didn't use the same theme throughout the piece and just wrote something different each time." Whelp, you signed up for the wrong piece to listen to, then. :) Just skip to the 3rd Movement! 😂

A lot of people say that the ratings on MDL don't mean much. My experience says otherwise. I think the most popular/highly-rated dramas (which are not always the same dramas, I realized (Boys Over Flowers is a good example; super popular, poorly rated)) are popular or highly rated for a reason. And I think it's because they execute the formula in a way that pleases the majority of users, either because it was so solidly predictable with a unique spin of some kind or compellingly written character arcs (like Boys Over Flowers), or because it was something super unexpected (like Mouse) but predictable enough to please those who come to Kdramas wanting the formula. The lower rated dramas often lack the same thing movies and TV lack when they do poorly in their genres, which is primarily poor execution of the formula, and some combination of the following: poor script/writing, poorly concealed spot holes, poor directing, poor chemistry between romantic leads, boring or clunky cinematography, characters majority of people can't understand or relate to, etc. There are exceptions, of course, especially if there are anomalies due to fanatic devotion to actors or certain cliches/tropes and who don't take the rest of the drama into account, but I find they're rare, especially as time does it's work. :) Annnnywaaay, I've gabbed long enough. Thanks for the kind words!

In case you're interested, the 1st Movement of the Mozart Sonata I mentioned ends at 13:47:
https://youtu.be/x7Pd2OqxfnU?si=wg0pmVVGOvL__pCT

😅

That's okay, I think it was my explanation that was not clear, so no worries. :) It was fun to dialogue a bit.

I'm still perfecting the ways I communicate this idea, and you've helped me see I have more work to do to capture what I mean. :) Kdramas can be escapist entertainment, for sure, and can pull people out of their real lives and make them want (or reinforce) a fantasy. I'll admit that this type of entertainment is not as edifying as entertainment that seeks to deepen your love for the real world and live in it more fully and meaningfully. Those are by far (within my limited exposture) the best stories.

Godzilla movies were maybe a simplistic example. I should have thought of something less fantastical to demonstrate my point, haha. I think you still missed what I was trying to illustrate about it, but regardless, my lack of clarity led to your misinterpretation, so that was my bad. I will concede the comparison was poorly made. I didn't anticipate that would be the part of my point you would camp on (and I feel like this post would go on far too long if I tried again), but your comment helped me further refine my thought process. So, thank you!

Saying you're not the target audience is probably quite accurate (I'm happy for you to have been reminded of that revelation--it will be helpful with future selections of Kdramas, I think), and I can admit you're probably not wrong about romance dramas being fulfilling enough for "a certain demographic" (of which I must be a member). MDL and trial and error helped me discover my preferences, too, so now I have a much better idea of what I like and don't like.

You're right, Kdramas are not realistic, nor do they claim to be. They are not documentaries, biopics, or historical narratives trying to replicate past or present events realistically or accurately; they are their own form of entertainment (like TV shows, or soap operas, blockbuster movies, anime, and Indie films; they are their own form of visual storytelling). ALL entertainment is unrealistic; that's it's essence. Different genres have different ways of mimicking reality, but that's all they can do, at best: mimic and reflect imperfect, exaggerated, caricatured, idealized and largely inaccurate pictures of our world and reality. Each genre has its own formula for doing that and arbitrarily decides what aspects of realism to mimic and which elements of fantasy the genre will couch in an artificial realism unique to that genre (e.g. in anime, soap operas, blockbuster films, etc.). The quality of entertainment within that genre has to do with the way that genre's artificial realism is executed and incorporated into believable characters, creative plots, settings or frameworks for interacting so people can enter into the world created and find it compelling and interesting. People then decide which types of artificial realism they can stomach, and that's preference.

The kind of ML you're describing is a feature of the Kdrama genre. They are NOT realistic, and never have been and probably will never become so (because then it will be something different). There are variations on the ML theme, but their formulaic features are set in stone, and they differ only in aesthetics, characteristics, personality differences, ways they are excellent or skilled at something, in their backstories and jobs they do (though I think Netflix is starting to play with the formula by trying to cater to wider audiences).

So, I'm agreeing with you, but I always get so confused by people who take issue with features of the Kdrama formula (i.e. features of the ML, the amount of episodes, as well as the consistent tropes and cliches) because they're complaining about a Kdrama simply being what it is. It's like complaining that Godzilla movies destroy too many buildings and don't portray monsters realistically. 🙄

I can accept that people will dislike aspects of the ML or ways he's written in this drama, and they're simply expressing their taste or preference, but to complain about how unrealistic he is... is unnecessary. You are simply stating the obvious... 😂 And to complain about him when he fits the "ML formula" is, again, to complain about the genre being what it is. "Forests would be great if they just had no trees..."

This synopsis sounds similar to Mad Dog. If anyone's seen both, are they similar? I kept getting stuck at the end of Mad Dog and couldn't seem to finish it, so that's why I'm curious.

Yes, she will be involved somehow, I think.

Thanks. :) It definitely has a unique feel to it!

Keep watching. :)

I made a comment to a similar question earlier in the thread, but I'll just repeat it below:

It's quirky and a bit strange (has a lot of mysterious stuff that has not been disclosed) but heartwarming once you get a few episodes in. It doesn't have the pristine, everything-is-perfect feel to it that you often find in Kdramas, or the smart, put-together ML who's gorgeous and perfect, and instead it feels like a real seaside town that has real people living in it.

If you're looking for a drama about sports, this also isn't probably going to be it. In fact, most Kdramas with sports aren't really about sports, so it has a similar feel to My Lovely Boxer, actually, and even a litttle similar (but weirder, and like I said, less pristine) to Weightlifting Fairy.

If you think a romance or sports drama is ruined by the "mystery killer" plotline that apparently ruins every Kdrama, then this will probably also not be for you. 😏

I don't know if that's enough detail, but I didn't want to spoil too much.

This was a little too somber and depressing for me to enjoy (and the recent news makes it worse), so I won't be rewatching it. Also, while there's no overt romance, and people say they thought the leads were just friends, I think there are undertones of romantic tension (especially on her side, but he's too honorable and hurt to do anything on his end). It reminded me of the undertones in Stranger. Very, very subtle, but still there (in my opinion).

Also, "Rainbow" from the OST (the O.WHEN and Vincent Blue versions are both good) is still at the top of my list of favorite songs with lyrics from a Kdrama. It's just so good. Most songs I eventually get tired of listening to again and again, but not this one.