Eli26

I get you think you know it all, but try to at least sound less presumptuous. I'm not even sure why you think you know anything at all about me.

Anyway, see my reply below to Paunitka for your "questions"

Of course, all types exist. That's exactly what I'm saying as well.

But, as far as the series is concerned:
"Acting gay" as in the director asking actors (often straight) to perform the way they think a gay person would/in a way the viewers will immediately recognize. Mannerisms, not feelings.
There is such a thing as interpreting a nuanced queer male and then another as putting on a show for viewers to have a laugh at.
This series often delivers - in fact i actually liked it a lot - but sometimes imo was just too much (as in, a dated representation).
The circle of mc's friends were not full fledged characters, they were walking stereotypes. *Always* over the top, something funny sometimes not so much.

Of course mc's romantic partners were all masculine (even the twink one). That's another cliché of this type of stories. The mc can queen it out all he wants, but would he want a man like himself (or one of his friends) for a partner? Nope. And probably neither would the viewers.

Personally I found boyfriend n2 one of the most realistic representations of what it still means for so many people to be gay and refuse to accept it, particularly in a country like Korea. Self-hatred, embarrassment, the feeling of not belonging and that of being looked at all the time, the need to hide and the rejection of all things supposedly considered gay.
And the fact that mc's friends were skeptical about him being part of the community (because he didn't fit in with the narrow definition of what being gay is for them)? Wow, that actually says a lot.

I think the complexities of bf n2 should have been explored further, especially since so many viewers didn't in fact get that this character was gay as well (thanks, mc's friends) and didn't even attempt to understand his struggles or empathize a little.

So, for the other person (@TheHAdes1) replying to me: again, so much for "this is who we are as gay people". But i forgot, only he knows how all gay people act...

I knew fans would get defensive. Imo you're actually right. The "acting gay" is obvious and it comes across as dated.
All the stereotypes about male homosexuality you can think of are in the series. I think the only thing missing is our ml dancing in high heels.
Overall truly a bit over the top at times, and that's a shame because underneath all the clichés there are some very nice and emotional moments that feel true and genuine (rather than a performance).
Reading the replies here i think it would be nice if people remembered that there is no such thing as "that's who we are as gay people". Please

This is exactly what i thought as well. I have watched it up until ep 6 and i kind of enjoy it, but quite a few times i've wondered, isn't this supposed to be a bl? Imo the leads don't give off romantic vibes when they interact with one another (and there hasn't been any definitive sign that points to them liking each other as more than friends). Sure there is affection between them - that i see, but attraction?

Now, i know this is supposed to be a bl, so i expect something to happen sooner or later, but would people really have a valid reason to complain if j&j ended up being a bromance? Because up until now that's exactly how it comes across...

It might be because of the actors. Cute/handsome guys for a bl means half the job is done

I complain a lot, but I love that cute little scene on the bed at the end of the series. It's just that i kind of got obsessed with this show and started noticing some details with the acting. Who knows, maybe it wasn't the acting per se, but rather the script, or the weird directing, or my imagination...
So yeah, maybe it's just my perception, but at points I felt some subtle reluctance...
Just to give you an example of good intimacy onscreen, check out 'our dating sim'. Imo it's just a slightly above average kbl (no comparison with t8s), but both actors actually delivered with the little touches, hugs and random kisses (Some apparently unscripted). Average script, but with that type of skinship they sold the relationship.

It's kind of unfortunate, I agree. The starting point was so good, I'm not sure why the directors chose to tell the storyline this way, basically letting fall apart that initial passion in favour of clichéd developments (and now i realise jaewon's post kiss reaction should have been a warning in this sense).
I felt even the acting had some issues at times. I don't know if it was because of the directing, but the jaewon actor didn't convey to the end that feeling of desire and longing he portrayed so well in the first episodes. He got the empty gaze typically linked to depression right, but the passion his character should have felt at least in ep.10 was missing.
The vibe of "totally in love boyfriend' for me mostly came through thanks to the jihyun actor, i feel he managed to act his role with no hesitation.

Nah... a few people get it... I agree with your point of view anyway, jaewon hasnt really proved his love to jihyun, and we have no idea if next time an issue comes up he'll fight or he will find an easy way out.

I think there are two main reasons why so many fans "side" with jaewon:
- the directors' bias: the show wants us to feel sorry for him, it's directed that way. If we had been shown a different jihyun post incident (more hurt, not as understanding), people would have been very upset by the way he was treated. BUT... he was OK, ready to stand by jaewon no matter what, confident jaewon loved him back. And so all the focus of the episodes was on jaewon and his suffering (which i find unfair, considering what jihyun had been through).

- Based on so many comments I've read: viewers fell in love with jaewon ep.1 e 2 (so: kind of mysterious, flirty, seductive, very intense with his interest in jihyun). Compare him with jaewon ep.10... how passive attitude-wise he has become. He doesn't initiate skinship any longer, tries to turn jihyun down, basically let jihyun decide everything.
I understand trauma and pretending, but I also prefer how jaewon was presented at the beginning. Not sure so many people would have liked him if he had acted throughout the series like in ep.10 (not even considering ep.7 and 8)

Ps. Ironically, jaewon was more honest (with the ex girlfriend for example) when he was pretending than when he felt he could be himself (and asked her if they could stay friends...)

And it's not even just the party for me (when it's up to jihyun once again to take the initiative and get close to jaewon). Maybe I'm alone on this, but jihyun simply looks much more at ease in their boyfriend phase. He has no problem flirting, cuddling up, sharing his desire to spend time alone, talking with his friends about the relationship...

Let's be honest, as far as I am concerned I'm good with the ending we got, but especially for t8s I have to make an effort to suspend my disbelief. Following the directors' logic (realism, try to avoid the fantasy land of bls), as soon as the powerful and rich ceo father gets to know about the relationship he will find a way to break them up (ex. play up jaewon's guilt). Let's also consider korean homophobia plus all the filial duty stuff (as the only son it's one duty not to bring shame to the family and to marry and have children) and yeah... it's difficult to see a way out.
Also: As you wrote, it's plain to see how determined jihyun is, he's willing to make sacrifices and pursue what he wants, so it wouldn't be that much of an issue for him to try and make the relationship work (until he has had enough of everything). What about Jaewon though..? It remains to be seen, we only know that he *says* a lot of reassuring stuff, the rest is up to our imagination.
Last thing, always at the party: look how their best friends just start flirting and making out without a care in the world, while j&j talk about how weird it would be for the others to see them kissing... this once again proves that the directors know perfectly well how things work in real life (again, as far as Korea is concerned).

Yes, imo it's obvious he trusts his therapist.

Re. Jaewon's brother. Not only he seems to open up about his brother just with jihyun, I actually still have no idea if his friends even knew he had one...

Re. Sexual orientation. It seems to me that in general kbls try to play around with words (and storylines) in order to avoid getting too much into specific topics. It all remains somehow vague. I'm reminded of old thai bls when the word gay (or bi) couldn't be uttered.
Case in point: The therapist at some point advises jaewon to "deepen" the relationship with jihyun, but to be careful not to cross the line. What does that even mean? Is it a way to imply but not explicitly bring up his sexual oriention? Or it's normal to talk this way in Korean and it just sounds weird in translation? Who knows...

And with regards to jaewon nothing is ever really clarified: the ex guesses what the deal is, but never asks him anything - not even at the end when he breaks up with her or at the party; yoon won - the best friend - tells him she knows him (though she didn't seem to have a clue in the earlier episodes and never mentioned anything), but the subject is immediately dropped: he first gets defensive (I thinks he replies "what do you mean?") and then silently acknowledges it only to change topic and proceed to talk about age gaps in relationships (which ok, it's obviously related to jihyun but it's still a way to avoid addressing directly the broader topic of his attraction to men).

To me it's a bit weird, this is supposedly a realistic series, but somehow it manages not to address a few key aspects of the storyline (jihyun's case is treated differently, it would be interesting to know why).
Jaewon never really gets close with anyone to talk about his *romantic* feelings for jihyun... I have to wonder how he's totally ready to let anyone know they are dating (considering both his need to keep things for himself and how homophobic S. Korea is).

Ok, first of all: i love this series. I gave it a 9.5 out of 10 rating, come on.
Is it necessary to be passive aggressive everytime someone writes a slight criticism of a show?
And, i don't know about others commenting but I'm happy to tell you i don't belong to the 'too young' to comment group.

I just remarked on a typical trope you can find in romance: troubled handsome badboy (with a heart of gold) finds real love, because of *reasons* he gets scared and makes mistakes, but fortunately the person in love with him doesn't give up and tries his best to "heal" (or fix/help... whatever) him by making nearly all the efforts to get him back. I loved that at least both of them acknowledged that they would try to make it work, but things are complicated.

Anyway, I knew the moment jaewon started avoiding jihyun, that jihyun would pursue him and take him back with no explanation necessary. Since this is such a good series I hoped the director would have jaewon say something, apologise or allude to his depression, but it didn't happen. A missed opportunity imo in an otherwise lovely series.
Do I think some viewers sympathise so much with jaewon because of his looks (among other things)? Yes, I do. As I wrote this is a typical trope, to make it work the character has to have that something that appeals to many people. You need the right actor to combine good looks with a sense of vulnerability (another example of this comes from an "old" lgbt series unfortunately nearly forgotten: queer as folk with Brian, fans loved him, I liked and understood him myself, but really? In real life few people would have been OK with his issues, as understandable as they were)

Finally, I understand jaewon (depression and all). And i'll just leave it at that.
But, as his psychiatrist finally told him, his condition doesn't justify his behaviour.
I don't agree with you that jaewon is not happy with his therapist, he chose to keep seeing her and he gave no sign of distrust, actually her criticism seemed the first to finally wake him up from his apathetic state of mind.
The fact that he never outright told her he might feel something for a man might mean different things. For example, maybe the director didn't want to explore that aspect because of time limits. Or maybe he didn't feel at ease, not even in a safe setting.

Overall, we dont know if it was the first time he felt something for a man. He presented as a straight man, but it's more plausible to conclude he never was, so with jihyun it was the first time he acted on his attraction. Again, first time but he seemed to know what he wanted, no real hesitation (aside from post kiss).
I just think I've always seen jaewon a bit reluctant to open up about his feelings for jihyun, up until the end (though yes, he gave jihyun the confirmation they both needed). It's not just the psychiatrist, when at the party his close friend told him she guessed there might be something between them his reaction was a bit defensive. As for the other people around him I don't remember him ever approaching the subject. He could have with his ex, she knew and by the end he could have told her he's in love with someone else.
He was OK with jihyun's friend though. Probably because it was not up to him to explain anything (and unlike his "friends", jihyun's friend didn't have a toxic personality).
All of this lead me to think that in a hypothetical future, confronted with his father (for example) jaewon might not be as confident as we would hope. And tbh I wouldn't like to be him, in South Korea, the only son of a rich business man. I get it.

Have you finished it now? I think you should try to see how you like the ending re. Jaewon's behaviour.
I really liked t8s (among the best bl ive watched) but i see the typical badboy trope: very good looking and charming guy, looking (and being) vulnerable and whose behaviour gets excused time and time again for one reason or another (because ok the trauma, but he ghosted jihyun also after kissing him....). And never explaining himself to jihyun.
The other boy, jihyun in this case, has to always be understanding, fight for their love, and always take first step.
Reverse the roles and yeah... probably jihyun wouldn't have been justified to the extent i've seen.
Another interesting thing is, jihyun's friends all know about him, advise him and talk to him about jaewon.
What about jaewon though? He says he wont keep their relationship a secret, but does he really talk with anyone about it? The ex girlfriend knows because duh..., the other girl friend guessed (and his reaction was interesting), and what about his therapist, did she even know? He always referred to jihyun as a friend... i loved the happy ending, but i can only imagine all the issues that would arise for them in the future...