JayBird

Also stop rating it!!!! The only people who should be rating it right now are people who own time machines and have already watched the whole drama. What are you doing rating a drama that hasn't even passed the half-way point yet????

I'm not one of those people who thinks this drama is a nicely presented pile of trash but a 9.4 rating 2 episodes in is more than a little silly.

I think the kleptomania, which I'm pretty sure it is, is his very unhealthy coping mechanism to deal with his trauma. In his head, he had something precious stolen from him (his family and a father he loved), so, to try and fill that void, he's now stealing things of material value to others. It's clearly not working (because of course it wouldn't) and it's also clear he hates that he's doing it but he's also unable to stop.

As for his actions, I'm not overly pleased with how he's treating his mum but I've also come in to contact with a lot of children who've dealt with or are dealing with emotional trauma and I know all kids react differently but a common reaction is anger and resentment towards those closest to them. To me, JY is still struggling to process what happened (especially what happened right before the divorce because jesus christ that was horrific) and is lashing out as a result. His dad already left him, if he drives his mother away himself, then that gives him more 'control' over when and how it happens.

Tae Oh thinks he's so smart but I swear he's actually as thick as a brick and not nearly as useful. Like, seriously, wtf are you doing man??

Her joining the evil team does nothing to make this trend in superficial dialogue less worrying and could potentially make it worse. Seriously, if their way of showing us that she's a bad person is by making her ridiculously superficial despite being the Prime Minister, then that's not good. That's cheap, low grade and pretty sexist characterisation and that's why I hope it doesn't continue passed these first 2 episodes.

On a lighter note, I really hope Lee Gon proves himself to be a better Emperor than he's currently being. He's got some really poor leadership skills going on at the moment and, if this continues, I may have to start a revolution :P

I hadn't noticed that..... Yikes, that's not a good look ? Fingers crossed that improves in the next few episodes otherwise that is a genuinely big problem.

So far it's okay, imo. It could have had a stronger start but it's in no way an awful one either. The visuals are stunning, which should be expected given the team working on it, and the premise, whilst currently under-utilised, could be done really well. I think the characters are currently it's weakest point but it's too early to tell how the drama is going to go atm.

Hope this helps x

I mean, whilst it's not always the case, you can normally tell if the characters click or not very early on in a drama so commenting on chemistry at this point isn't that premature. There are a lot of dramas that, at this point, had already established a relatively strong chemistry between various cast members.

That being said, there is potential for improvement even after a rough start so we'll just have to see what happens.

I'd imagine some of the noticeably worse dramas just aren't as hyped so they don't get the same reaction. That or people just lose interest in them earlier because they have no reason to think it might get better.

I'd also add that the set up for the romance doesn't do it any favours. You have LMH, who's almost predestined to be in love with the FL from the get go, and a FL who's just annoyed but needs to be written as slightly drawn to him to make it work. It essentially means we never get to see the initial connection on LMH's side and it feels flat as a result...... Idk if that made sense but I hope so ?

Theory: The 'Ghost' in the back of Jung Tae Eul's car is Luna/the White Rabbit, her parallel self.

You put my own thoughts in to words better than I ever could. This drama was beautifully packaged but I found the box a more than a little empty when I unwrapped it.

Ikr?!? At first I felt quite sympathetic toward Gi Seok but he's not accepting her decision at all and it's starting to get creepy and entitled. Like who the f reacts to someone trying to break up with them by buying an engagement ring?

At this point I think Human Nam Shin is passed the point of no return. Yes, he had a horrible childhood, yes his adult life wasn't any better but abuse doesn't justify abuse. That's not how it works. We shouldn't be bending over backwards to excuse what he's doing just because he's human, especially as there's less and less humanity in him as time goes on. He treats everyone around him like they're less than human and he literally tried to force Nam Shin III to kill 2 people in the last episode. That's not okay, no matter what he's been through.

Feel sorry for what happened to lead him down this path, for the trauma he suffered as a child, for the pain he must have felt his whole life that turned him into a monster..... but don't say that what he's doing now is in any way forgivable or excusable at this point because it's not.

I think another reason they can tell is because she looks older than her age (her fictional one that is). It's something that's been brought up enough times now that I don't think it's just lines they're adding to cover up the casting choice.

Sorry to just shoe-horn my way into this debate but I thought I may as well put in my two cents as well because, as I think everyone in this thread has recognised, it's a fun drama to debate about, if nothing else.

Anyway, I think where you and I differ, amrita828, is the distinction you make between real and fictional people. You find her unsatisfactory as a lead because she's very real in many respects and doesn't seem to be making much progress. I totally get that and I can see how it would be frustrating, a static lead can be extremely annoying. That being said, I love her as a lead for exactly the same reason you dislike her. I find her "realness" (her fallibility, her inability to make steps forward) enjoyable and refreshing and I don't see it as a hinderance to her being the lead character. I don't see her so much as static but rather as someone who's moving very, very slowly and I don't mind the pace because I feel it mirrors most people's journey's in real life. Yes, I get annoyed at her when she does something stupid but I get annoyed at her as a person, not as a character because that's what I see her as.

As for the speech she gave to her colleague, again I think we came at this from very different angles. I admit I was disappointed with her at first but then I thought about it and I thought about my own experiences with my self-worth and I felt I began to understand why she said what she did. To me, the reason she put so much emphasis on having someone who she didn't want to disappoint is because, while she may have very little self-worth (and I'm convinced she has very little at all if half the stuff she says is anything to go by) she understands that someone else will care if she's hurting, whether she does or not. How can I blame her for that when that exact same reasoning is what has stopped me from doing something or motivated me to try something else countless times in my life. If you don't really care much about yourself then knowing someone else does can really be a catalyst for a lot of your actions. Is it a healthy approach? Hell no! But again, I find it realistic and relatable. Personally, I am really hoping she finds her self-worth somewhere along the line and starts making use of some self-determination by the end of the drama but for now I'm willing to wait for her to get there. If she doesn't, that's when I'll start getting annoyed.

As for the ex situation, I can understand your frustration, she really didn't handle it very well at all (but neither did JH) but again I found it realistic and that made it enjoyable for me. Also I never really expected her to tell anyone about it in its entirity because I don't know many people willing to air their wounds to even their closest and dearest. It's a dumb, frustrating, stupid decision on her part but not unbelievable to me.

I haven't seen the rest of the episodes yet so I can't comment on the rest of your points. Sorry if I came of as abrasive at any point, I really didn't mean to if I did because I really can see why you might not like JA. That being said, I can't find it in myself to agree with you (and I won't blame you if you can't find it in yourself to agree with me). I think we just came at her character from very different angles and that's shaped how we see her now. (Sorry for the essay).

But tbh I believe it deserves a 9. The plot is slow and understated (which can definitely be boring to some people) but I find it fascinating. I also really like the OST and their use of non-original songs works pretty well for the material they're going with in my opinion. Then again, I'm not just watching it because I thought it would be fluffy but because find I enjoy what I deem to be its low-key complexity and the way it deals pretty deep issues without bashing us over the head with them (and again, I can see that would be boring to other people).

Honestly, whether or not people think it deserves a 9 rests entirely on what they're looking to get from the drama. You don't think it's a 9, I do, and we'll just to agree to disagree on that. Art is subjective not objective so what this drama 'deserves' is entirely down to the individual watcher.

Her objections may be illogical to us but they're not illogical to her nor are they illogical in terms of her character development. The writers have spent the entire series developing her obsession with 'family' and, even more importantly 'proper family with connections. Heck, when JA' s first boyfriend cheats on her she tells JA to take him back because he's from a good family. JH is not from a good family, his mother is dead, he was raised by his sister, and his father ran off to start a new family in Canada. In JA's mother's eyes those are stains on JH character, on his prospects, on everything linked to him so of course she's going to object to their union. You don't just get rid of your convictions and opinions in a day or two and JA's mother's convictions are so deeply rooted it'll take more than other people being okay with the couple for her to change her mind.

Ah! You're right! I couldn't find it before XD