Jaden

What past choice, how he killed his brother? Hard to draw a connection between that and sacrifice.

I don't see how it's not ridiculous, the motives were weak, the cult was a stretch, the plan was too elaborate, the way the death happened is too coincidental, it just so happens that this happen and that happened in a certain order which lead to character x having to sacrifice themselves.

Very poorly designed even if it was all thoroughly explained.

Exactly this. The villain's trap is also very elaborate for no reason at all other than he's crazy, not very inspiring, why didn't he just kill his target directly, I know they explained it but it feels very cheap. The excuses were:
1. He wanted to replay a moment in his life.
2. Ping Zhang is too careful/protected compared to Ping Jing (but then isn't Ping Jing a stronger fighter?)

I already accepted this is different from NIF seeing as it's so much about family. My problem was with the plot, it's not bad, it feels incoherent/inconsistent. Character x's death was poorly designed.

finally someone who actually understands what I'm saying, I didn't say it was illogical though, by all means the story gave us all the logic that would lead to his death, but that doesn't make it natural.

As I said, it felt like the writers created this elaborate scenario where it event x and event y and event z must occur in a certain order just to force him to sacrifice himself. The sacrifice was so orchestrated/fabricated, whatever you might call it, that's what I mean by unnatural.

It's like nobody actually read what I said, I have no problem with character x dying, it's that he died as a result of natural plot progression but rather as the result of writers creating an elaborate scenario to kill him.

It's not the fact that he died, it's how he had to die. The scenario in which he had to sacrifice himself feels so fabricated/unnatural, it's like the writers couldn't come up with a better way to kill him off.

So after having watched past ep. 27, let's just say all the hype died for me. It was exciting for the longest time because of the suspense, the mystery, because I didn't know what to expect and I had all these cool theories in my mind.

However, now that I know the truth it actually feels completely dumb, the villain's "master plan" is uninspiring, the cult doesn't make any sense. The worst part is the writers had to jump through hoops and hoops to create a scenario where character x must die, it's like x didn't need to die, but they made x die anyways just to increase the "sadness" effect. Even then, I didn't even feel sad because I felt as if I was being manipulated to feel sad.

They shouldn't have used such elaborate/ridiculous method to kill off character x, deaths should occur more naturally as a result of plot progression.

This is still a great drama, characters (especially the family bond), cinematography, everything is good. Too bad the plot is too incoherent, otherwise it could've competed with the first NIF.

How does nobody here notice this??

EDIT: I've changed the wording, plot is not inconsistent, but incoherent - relationships between events/characters, while believable, lack good justification.

Lack of subtlety is the biggest problem with so many dramas and it always happens near the end of a drama. It's like a writer's dilemma, how do they wrap everything up nicely, if they're not clever, they will have all the characters resolve their problems by having them communicate profusely. Communication is an important thing in any relationship, but often feels unnatural/forced in drama.

There's a bit of justification here because Min Kyu is portrayed as someone who's socially aloof and has hard time trusting people (due to a traumatic childhood), so he cannot see things from another's perspective, which is why Ji Ah had to explain in so much detail to convince him it wasn't all a deception.

But if we assume Min Kyu doesn't have 0 EQ, then as you said, Ji Ah could have gotten away with explaining a little and let Min Kyu figure out the rest. She didn't need to spoonfeed him all that information like Min Kyu was some child. But then again, the story about a man who mentally did not grow up, which is why he's able to believe a human is a robot in the first place.

The way I see it, if Ji Ah needed to explain as much as she did, then Min Kyu is not worth her time, it's sortof the idea that if two people truly loved each other and were meant for each other, then there should be a certain level of "telepathy" where one person is able to feel the other's intentions and sincerity. In such situation, there's no need for so many words.

I don't dislike it but it's not realistic at all just because they "smacked down" the trope.

Trope opposition is a trope in itself nowadays, like how they make you think a trope is about to occur but then shut it down. Instead, they should be avoiding the trope altogether.

As someone who also found it weird that koreans preferred Moonlight over Moon Lovers, I'm curious to know, where do you get this news, is there a korean drama database with ratings?

Same, I watched the beginning, which seemed very good then got more and more bored and ended up skipping most of the 2nd half just to see how it ends.

As someone who loves traditional melodrama about revenge, this was a bit too traditional and revengy, and therefore predictable.

As someone who loves angst, the main character was too angsty for me... strange how that works.

In response to the both of you:

First of all, thanks for explaining your perspectives on it, it has given me better understanding and deeper insight on this topic. I'll try to expand my thoughts on this.

I'll admit it was a slight exaggeration on my part, I don't think what happened is bad, but I felt that it could be better if it were less grandiose, if they kept it more subtle and in moderation, it could've achieved the same goal. The writers were probably tempted to end this with a bang but I thought it didn't do the rest of the story justice.

That said, I'll agree that the ending is not completely unrealistic. As the both of you have said, the ending was slightly open-ended, despite seeming like they're going to get back together successfully. So I'll give credit where it's due, at least they left us with a bit of subtlety.

-- Long section below which dives into some philosophical stuff, hope you can read it but you've been warned --

Ironically, most people here dislike the ending because it's a not a fairy tale. I dislike the ending for the opposite reason. I'm judging this as a realistic drama because for the most part, it was, and I expected it to be consistent throughout.

You'll want to give me full attention on this part. The thing about real life is, more often than not, things don't work out. Now before you discard my statement as the ramblings of a pessimistic old man, not saying I'm old, let me try to frame it in a more positive light.

For every childhood friends that get married later in life, there are thousands of other cases where this did not work out.
For every good man like Lu Xing He, there are millions of others who would've ditched Geng Geng a long time ago.

If Yu Hai truly loved Geng Geng, 99/100 times he would not have
(completely) disappeared. But let's assume he does truly love Geng Geng, then for every case where childhood lovers meet 10 years later, there are millions of other similar cases where they don't even try to get back together.

@Jay you mentioned that if Geng Geng and Yu Hai went their separate ways, people would hate it more. You might be right but there are certainly examples where similar things happen but people were more or less okay with it. Off the top of my head, I can think of this taiwanese movie called "You are the apple of my eye", as well as many Makoto Shinkai movies such as 5 centimeters per second (of course, this is not drama)

The beauty in these stories is that because they take the most likely path that people may experience in real life, they allow us connect it to it on a deeper level. It shows us we're not alone or helps us sympathize with people in that situation. Relationships in real life are often more complex, and there are countless barriers/obstacles, and in reality, the majority cannot overcome those barriers. As much we should be encouraging people to break those barriers, we shouldn't be shunning failure, but rather empathize with them.

Most dramas or really any story medium always tells you to "chase your dreams", "if you work hard you can achieve anything" "if you can't achieve it, then you don't deserve it", etc, but sometimes you need a story to tell you that it's okay to fail and that you're not alone. Conversely, if you've found someone you love and that person loves you back, then what it tells you is that you cherish what you have, because there are so many cases where something that could have been so perfect did not work out. It really helps us better understanding/empathize with each other. That's the beauty of realism in the media.

If we take this down a level, "For every fed person, there's someone starving."
It's really our duty as human beings to sympathize with those who are suffering.

One of the themes of "With You" is actually the barrier meeting at the wrong time or meeting when you are not the best version of yourself. This is a very deep topic that is very relatable to just about anybody. As we're growing up, we're constantly changing/improving/maturing, so it's very common that younger people are affected. What if you miss an opportunity at love because of who you were at the time? Then years later you've developed as a person, you've become a better version of yourself but it's too late and there's this endless regret - you wish you were be better sooner. I believe this theme was poorly closed off due to them actually overcoming the barrier in an unrealistic way.

But hey, at least Yu Hai and Geng Geng were the same age, think about the obstacles couples who have an age difference need to overcome. Think about the story creator who did not have a talent for writing or drawing. Think about the musician who did not have good rhythm or singing ability, etc. it doesn't even have to be about love, the theme of barriers exist everywhere.

I hope what I said is sound and has opened your mind even if a little. My perspective is definitely in the minority, most drama is unrealistic for a good reason.

In real life, I completely agree that there are cases where people who fail at school succeed in life, vice versa. However, more often than not, you do not see cases like Geng Geng. Correct me if I'm wrong but she really does, to a some extent seem like a "superstar". She appeared in the news, she's rejecting the second lead who is portrayed as a perfect suitor, she rejects her job like she's the boss, etc.

We all want to see Geng Geng become a better version of herself, but this is slightly overkill. For a story aiming for realism, this did not seem like the right approach.

You'll want to read my reply to the other Jay for my full opinion on this.

Even China likes this drama.

Actually, my problem with the ending is that it was unrealistic, just because it wasn't a fairy tale ending doesn't make it realistic.

The entire drama is a very realistic depiction of chinese highschool student life, which is why the ending feels like such a bad contrast to the story.

2 things :

1) They really didn't need to turn the female lead into a superstar and turn the male lead into a loser just to show that "you don't need do STEM to succeed or you don't need high IQ to succeed, haha - being good at math doesn't guarantee you success, etc", we get it already, this theme was already introduced in the highschool episodes. Showing such extravagant result is a lack of self-control on the writers part and doesn't prove anything that wouldn't otherwise be proven by just showing her with a moderately good job. They really didn't need to contrast the two leads so much just to prove us something.

2) What's the point of making the male lead disappear and the reappear into her life years later? Sounds like typical romance drama. This is completely unrealistic especially given that they've both supposedly "saved themselves" for each other even after all those years. It really doesn't fit well with the rest of the story.

Bonus) Second lead still chasing her after all those years, please..

If they were going the realistic route, then they should've kept it that way.


I still think this is good drama but the ending leaves much to be desired.

Not necessarily best drama but definitely best cliffhangers!

There's some romance and that romance is very good, but the focus is more on friendship.

Seeing as ratings are going up, I might pick this up again, the problem I had with it is the lack of subtlety and suspense. Also the main character felt like a wannabe Mei Changsu/Hu Ge.

Looks like this is still by far the best drama even now that we have Tribes & Empires and Nirvana in Fire 2.