Maggi64

The academic discourse in Women's Studies is nearly all predicated on the fact that men regard women as the "fairer" sex, which means prettier. So, again, I have not said anything remotely controversial but, to the contrary, I made an utterly common statement. Now, feminists dislike how seeing only beauty can objectify women, and that is legit. Thus, the only offensive thing is when they objectify us and ignore our other qualities. And in the story, Hira almost did that to Kioyoi by worshipping his beauty. Kioyoi wanted to be loved for his realistic and deeper qualities.

Nobody ever called him a woman. That was people misreading cuz they were in a hurry to be offended by something. The actual comment said that the whole basis of Hira's attraction was Kioyoi's beauty, which is akin to how men will also be attracted to a woman for her beauty. Men objectify female beauty. I had made a comment underscoring a perfectly common view and I was shocked that 2 women found a way to interpret the comment as "offensive"

Interest in sexual positions can be a bit too much like thinking about porn and positions, in which case it's random sex acts, and not relevant to character or story. But the author clearly felt it was relevant, else she would not have put it in the book to begin with. Well, she not only put it in, but described the position as her first motivation to write the whole thing to begin with. She said she wanted to write about an introverted, angsty Seme. So if you think interest in the top/bottom is offensive and heteronormative, then you gotta blame the author. Besides, how is interest in sexual positions in the least bit "hereronormative"? Everyone has positions in sex. , There is missionary, there is anal, there's doggy style, etc. There are lots of positions and everyone's interested. But too much graphic depiction is, as I said, pornographic.

As for offensive, the only really offensive one I know of is in book Addiction where the author writes that GuHai hurt Bai Lui Yin so badly with anal sex that Bai Lui Yin actually needs a doctor and could not get out of bed for a week. It suggests that gay sex is tantamount to pain and all things negative. So, yea, that's offensive.

Now forgive me giving TMI, but listen, I am a woman who's had anal sex. It hurts at first, but then it's fine. But some of these BL's really border on the absurd cuz the women who write them clearly have never had anal sex. For instance, in "My Lovely Writer" the character was in such pain that one had to carry the other out of bed to go to the bathroom. He carries him as if he'd just been wounded in battle or something! I actually laughed at that. The most normal and casual way to handle it was in TharnType, where one guy says, hey, I am little sore, but otherwise no big deal and he had fun anyway. That's casual and relaxed, which is what it's like btw.

As for other Thai dramas, yikes, they literally cast the leads to play either top or bottom. I saw an interview with a Thai director who is gay and it pissed him off. So this is where it becomes problematic. However, the interest in sexual positions of and in itself is perfectly normal and perfectly harmless.

I think I get it now. He wants Hira to shorten the distance between them, which was created by Hira worshipping him like a God. However, once that distance is closed, he rather likes the devotion. It was just the distancing he disliked. Right?

Re-bottom and top: this is not a spoiler cuz it's just a general comment and not in the show anyway.

So, there is much talk in the comments about surprise that Kiyoi's a bottom. First of, it is relevant to the characters and not a random sexual position cuz it shows how Hira is worshipping Kiyoi's beauty and can't help but to touch his body and enter it. Kiyo, meanwhile, has the more beautiful body (which is the entire premise of the show), so he's happy to let his man take his body body . It works out in both the relationship and in sex. To me it made absolute sense for Kiyoi to be the bottom and would not have worked otherwise.

*I had to rephrase this cuz I had used the analogy of a woman's prettiness before for Kiyoi's beauty. I am not sure why people think it's offensive to gays to say that women are prettier than men and that men worship woman's bodies, but hey, some people want to be offended, so I made my meaning more clear.

To say that one person has the more beautiful body than the other, the way women are prettier than men, is not offensive to gays. In this story, the fact that one worships the other's beauty was the ENTIRE premise of the show. Perhaps I needed to phrase it better. Or put this qualifyer in my comment.

It is not in the least bit offensive to say that one person has the more beautiful body the way women do, and that the other worships it. In fact, this was the ENTIRE premise of the show. Did you somehow miss that? Please try not to be offended out of the gate. It's offensive to always be offended.

Can you all help me figure something out about Kiyoi. At the end he says he does not want to be worshipped like a God, but a regular guy. However, in episode 5 he said he loved how Hira's eyes were worshipping him like, well, a god. All I can come up with is that he wants Hira to stop worshipping him enough to actually date him, but beyond that he loves Hira's weird kind of worship. For instance, he smiles when he hears Hira saved his change. So, he does like the worship, it's just that he wanted Hira to stop it enough to accept the relationship. Is that it?

But Kiyoi had just gotten out of the shower when it happened, so his feet were all clean. Showering is why his shoes were off to begin with.

It matters cuz it is part of who the characters are, and not random sex positions. Hira is the one who worships Kiyoi's body and wants to touch and enter it. Kiyoi, meanwhile, is like the beautiful woman who enjoys how her man takes her. This shows how their relationship is handled in life too.

Yes, it made sense. After all, Hira is worshipping Kiyoi's body and its beauty and he wants to touch it and enter it. Kiyoi meanwhile, is more like the pretty woman who lies back and enjoys the way her man takes her. It worked so well that way

Yes, and compare that to Thai productions where 9 out of 10 of the actors cannot even cry. They will squish up their faces, but no tears come out. I have only seen one Thai actor actually shed some tears. In TharnType, it was flat out weird that he had no tears.

I was actually impressed by his acting and thought it was convincing cuz of how it was written, insofar as he's still calling Hira "weird" but now we see the context. The whole relationship is more believable this way.

It was obvious to me too. Cuz Hira is so into Kiyoi's body that he's the one doing all the kissing and the wanting to touch it and enter is. Kiyoi's role in bed is sort of like a woman's. He likes how his lover is more aggressive in bed than he is.

Can you post the links here cuz I am not seeing this in English????

That was wonderful! But damn, I wish there were English subtitles. Do you know what they were saying?

"Bad" is a great comparison. That is ALL about connotation. I am thinking of that, plus weird, plus creepy and gross sort of interchangeably. And yes, Kioyi it's part of Kioyi's character to use a fresh word. That's why it was cool that the screenwriter has him continue to use the word to the very end.

thx for link. fyi love his hairstyle in this. Those Japanese boys' mop tops crack me up. It's like the Beatles' hair from the early 60's.

Perhaps it's that the literal translation is "gross" but the connotation is closer to "weird." Cuz I trust Viki waaay more than Googala. To begin, Viki is subbed by actual Asians who speak English. So they know what these words are. Googala might as well be transcribed by a machine. They even get the subject pronouns wrong and write "I" when it means "he." Now THAT makes an enormous difference.

LOL, he wanted to get caught! That scene had some of us cracking up at what cute little kids they are. To be running around the school like that!