Orangevine

Your last paragraph is spot on! I thought the sleuth (and detective genre ambassador) was TF but it seems he's here for comedy while detective element is what brings him, wuxia!SZ, and politics!WZ together.

Hmmm, if you define it like this than I have to agree. But I personally found several key scenes in the first 3 episodes not to make sense unless the viewer employs wuxia logic.

Take, for example, that long plot line with the great martial artist. It's whole premise is quite whimsical - the talk about soldiers being not enough to subdue 'the great martial artist', the ready trust of government official in the word of that martial artist etc - this stuff is very out of place in realistic period drama. But if the viewer accepts the wuxia rules then it's all fine.

Iron Market especially seemed like something out of a wuxia - a lawless land with rough and tough people where faithful encounters with fierce women occur. The characters even went undercover literally leaving their formal clothes behind.

So while nobody talks about combat techniques I have a feeling that they really want to but can't cause there is no screen time after the detective/court intrigue parts are added.

Yeah, that's why I am so confused. Is it wuxia? Is it light court period drama? Is it a light detective? All of the above? It seems I don't have a good enough grasp on C-drama genres and so I keep expecting wrong stuff to happen.

I also suspect that the novel must have a gigantic size so court intrigues may exponentially grow with time.

NIF is forever in my heart. When they mentioned treacherous eunuch Gao I immediately thought about that old eunuch in NIF who was actually a pretty decent person)) And he would never dream about having his own secret service!

About Chang'an: I keep reminding myself not to compare The Sleuth with Nirvana in Fire and the likes X) Thinking of it as action-adventure drama definetly helps with that.

Untamed is xianxia - that is a story about cultivators who use 'magic' and can become immortals. That's why there is sword flying and stuff.

Wuxia is about brave warriors who fight for justice. The code of honour is very important in wuxia. That's why the first episode of The Sleuth featured that warrior whom Sui Zhou arrested. The warrior could have escaped later but he didn't because his honour forbade him.

Wuxia also is more of a romantic heroic epic so it has certain tropes. For example, Tang Fan encountered a mysterious girl, right? That girl would never appear in xianxia or court period drama especially in the way she did. But in wuxia such a character is par for the course.

I've got so many complaints everyone is going to hate me, haha. And I've watched only 3 episodes so far so which makes me a nit-picky viewer who hasn't even watched the whole thing (in case you are wondering if I'm self-aware).

Firstly, I thought it was a detective period drama like The Longest Day in Chang'an only with more humour and action. But is this drama a wuxia actually? It seems like detective and court intrigue are just convenient reasons for action-adventure. Deductions keep being just stated without the viewers having been presented with the hints and foreshadowing first, and, instead of cracking the suspects with their wits, the main characters mostly just torture them.

This torture aspect goes against the wuxia code of honour but it seems to be the product of period detective drama tropes clashing with the wuxia. Thus I expect some redemption arcs and tragic deaths in the finale. Are they coming? Am I too strict to poor folks in Ming Dynasty?

I also don't get the jokes some of the time and I recognise the tropes from the original novel only intellectually (for example, I understand that Sui Zhou is drop-dead sexy hunk of a man because I've been told so and not because I observed it. I'm sorry, I like Sui Zhou, but a peach would not fall out of my mouth X)

Before I alienate everyone I should add that I'm enjoying the drama very much even if I'm flabbergasted by some parts of it. I mean, I would totally drop the food from my mouth if I suddenly saw Tang Fan with his hair down. I also continue to be in awe of action scenes (great wuxia stuff!), stages and costumes (Sui Zhou's helmet and Tang Fan's white robe with blue gradient are my favourites).

I wish they have chosen a different title for this drama without a 'sleuth' in it.

So that's how it is. Now I see. Thank you!

Thanks! It seemed to me that consort Wan was just one of the power players and not supported in every endeavour by the emperor. So the reason the third lead killed that man seemed to be just one of the moves in petty court in-fighting.

I suppose I should wait to see more before jumping to conclusions. I'm just confused that several people below were rooting for the third lead. And it seems odd to root for a guy who killed someone for such petty reason. So I though I missed something.

Is he a bad guy? He cold-bloodedly arranged for a death of his political enemy in the first episode. I'd understand if his enemy committed some atrocious crimes of corruption but the only crimes listed (bad-mouthing the concubine, opposing the concubine's faction, pulling strings to get his song a posting) seemed quite light. So I'm now confused.

I'm so confused! Can someone comment on the character of 3rd male lead? I'll put question below in a spoiler.

I see, that's an interesting point.

I heard that the plot in Ice World was unpredictable, yeah.

I found Shinzanmono to be too sexist for my liking. For the same reason there are no other Higashino Keigo adaptations in this list. Though, i've been told the novels themselves are superior to the adaptations and less preachy.

Wow, Ice World is from 99! Is it heavy on the romance though? There is nothing wrong with romance but I do prefer stories with a very big detective side and stories like that usually don't have space for romance.

Thanks for recs! I haven't seen this one yet. Odagri Joe is a charmer, I agree.

Haha, Dele is obviously the best of the best. I'm giving it time to rest so I can rewatch for it for fourth time))

Yeah, N no Tame Ni is iconic too. And it's hilarious that Eikura Nana chose Kaku Kento in real life X)

Ehhh, speculating about someone's experience is not a good practice.

But I'm too a bit buffled by the idea that J-Dramas do not reflect reality. I saw yesterday a good phrase that explained why people often complain that J-Dramas are too hyperbolic. It was something like 'there is a certain earnestness in how J-Dramas' scripts are written and acted out'. It's spot on! Yes, there is that but this earnestness is supposed to be performed by japanese people in their every day lives as well. It's very important part of culture.

I gave NiF 10/10 but I see where you are coming from regarding the ending. It's very in line with toxic masculinity ideals which are still very relevant in Chinese culture. So while the ending makes zero sense, it's an unfortunate product of its time.

I explain it to myself in this way: Mei Changsu with his survival guilt and shame over his physical weakness couldn't do anything but relentlessly try to prove his worth by helping his friends and serving his country. That drive to make himself 'worthy by toxic masculinity metric' blinded him to the reality. Of course he couldn't stop until he was literally dead because if one deems oneself unworthy, no amount of accomplishments can fill that void inside. That also explains why he pushed away his loved ones instead of peacefully drifting away in their arms.

That's how I explain the ending from the story viewpoint. But of course that ending is pure propaganda and the viewers who have been rooting for clever 'emasculated' Mei Changsu all this time can't fathom while he had to go to the battlefield to become a 'masculine' war hero.

I hope that in another five years Mei Changsus of Chinese dramaland will not repeat such a senseless act.

Totally! MDL is all about K-stuff.

Oh, I heard that Byakuyakou has bad rep for being too melo, it's nice that the novel is not like this.

Yeah, Tanaka Kei totally deserves his it-man status. He has lots of projects this year, I can't wait!

Yeah, I just love Abe Hiroshi, he is one of those drop-dead-gorgeous charismatic actors. So it really pains me that I can't enjoy his hard-boiled mysteries. You lose some, you win some X)

Anyway, I find it really cool that you read the novel too. I may not be Keigo's fan but it's so great to talk with someone interested and knowledgable in Japan's culture and show biz. We may not always agree but that's even better cause differing opinions make one think stuff through.

I can't wait to hear you opinion on the spring dramas once they air) I just wish someone would sub Archymede and that Tanaka Kei & Tomoya special already (dreams, dreams). Anyway, today Tanka Kei hilariously posted that he hopes his buddy cop drama won't lose to MIU and Midnight Runners.

What a Ruroken movie is without One Ok Rock ost, am I right or am I right?

Take the Wings of the Kirin. How many female characters are there? Only one. Moreover, it's a hot young woman who has to rely on the main character's guidance to make a decision about termination of her pregnancy. The main character is an older man who authoritatively advices the woman to keep the child.

Now, none of this is specifically sexist. What's wrong with keeping a child? Or with asking an older male acquaintance for advice? Or for a woman to be poor and uneducated and to have to rely on a man in power? In general, there is nothing wrong with this.

But when the only female character is portrayed as uneducated and poor and in need of guidance of men in power regarding her reproductive choices - it's a very bad situation.

Older men always know better in this movie as even proved by the fate of the poor killed father. Again, there is nothing wrong with older men being right, but when it's the main morale of the story, it's old-fashioned at best, and repulsive at worst.