We've all been waiting for you, your motivational comments were greatly missed last week haha. Welcome back! Haven't…
I was SO devastated but I fully recovered after a couple of days. I watched a lot of 2D1N. Now I'm just very confused because I still don't think I was delusional. I've left a couple of general comments on my theory about what happened, including the one above and another one further down.
Yes, your right, the last 8-10 episodes have such a huge tonal shift from the first 6 episodes that a script change…
Yes, if my hunch is right I'd be interested to know what other differences there would have been besides the ending. Mostly I'd just really like to know what decisions were behind this. I'm genuinely curious and it's slightly frustrating that we'll probably never know.
I don't think they changed the Endgame... It's more than obvious that njh was signed in as the male lead and kim…
If NJH was cast for his marketability then it makes more sense to give him the role with the most screen time. If you prioritise money over storytelling then it will be no problem to change the ending in order to hire the lead actor that you want.
Okay, in a comment below I suggested that the writer and director had to change the original ending but stubbornly told the original story as far as they could. Now I'm going to discuss the alternative explanation for this mess.
It’s more than possible that this story was always meant to be a simple, light hearted, love story with the running theme of following your hopes and dreams. The ending does seem to suggest as such. The problem is that’s not what the story ended up being. Instead it became a clash between dreams and reality. Inevitably, in stories about dreams vs reality, reality emerges victorious. Except here it didn’t. The sad thing is that normally it’s harsh when reality wins out. In this case, the writer had the opportunity to show the beauty of reality over dreams. While NDS represented a fantasy, HJP represented reality. I actually don’t have a problem with HJP calling NDS the real NDS from the letters. In fact, I always thought that anyway. Both the NDS from the letters and the NDS from SST were just a fantasy. People who SDM placed all her hopes and dreams in but who ultimately fell short.
Ironically, HJP represented the real deal. Afterall, he is the one who challenged her and helped her grow. Throughout the drama we continuously see reality butting heads with dreams and we rooted for reality. Why? Because it was embodied in a character that we had so much sympathy for that for once we wanted reality over dreams. SDM too had a shift in episode 12 where she changed her original answer to HJP and tells him she wants facts, not a future filled with hopes and dreams. That scene suggested to me that the writer was fully aware of her themes and knew what she was doing. However, it is possible that the writer accidentally added way more depth to this story than she had planned. To some extent stories write themselves. I can certainly see how HJP may have unexpectedly offered the story a layer that the writer hadn’t been banking on. I’m so unconvinced that she didn’t do it deliberately but if it was an accident then what we have here is a total failure on the part of the writer to recognise exactly what story she was telling, what her themes were and who her protagonist was. I’ve roughly outlined my reasons already for why I don’t think that’s the case but either way this was such a missed opportunity. I urge people to give the writer the benefit of the doubt and consider that her hands may have been tied.
I don't think they changed the Endgame... It's more than obvious that njh was signed in as the male lead and kim…
I think you've misunderstood my comments. Let's set aside the terms male lead and second male lead. I think that in the original story HJP was supposed to end up with SDM. When NJH was cast it became necessary to abandon the original ending. Nevertheless, I believe both the writer and director ran with the original story as far as they could which is why it seemed as though HJP would eventually get the girl.
I think what this disagreement comes down to is how you interpret the first 10-12 episodes. I have been fully convinced by all the fan theories and episode analyses that there was meant to be a twist in which HJP ends up with SDM.
There are three possibilities. Number one is that some of us are delusional and saw themes, clues and plot threads that didn't exist. Obviously I don't think I'm delusional but then I wouldn't would I? Number two is that we're not delusional but we wrongly assumed the writer knew what she was doing and the story ended up being something she never intended for it to be, hence the disappointing ending. Number three is the possibility I put forward in my comment that it's neither the case that some of us are delusion, or that the writer is incompetent. Rather, the writer was forced to change her original plan but stuck with it as far as she could.
I don't think they changed the Endgame... It's more than obvious that njh was signed in as the male lead and kim…
"It's more than obvious that njh was signed in as the male lead and kim seon ho as the 2nd male lead."
Yes that's my point. Since he was signed in as the male lead it sealed the fate of the ending. If you were a producer on this and primarily concerned with making lots of MONEEEEEY, what would it matter to you whether it's HJP or NDS who is the endgame or 'male lead'. So long as you've got a top actor with lots of screen time your goal will be achieved.
I know it is possible that this was just incompetence but both thematically and narratively it made more sense for HJP to end up with SDM. The fact that NDS was the male lead doesn't matter. My argument was that the writer was planning a twist but then couldn't deliver on it because of NJH.
I'm not trying to blame NJH because I doubt it's even fully in his hands and I may be way off but that's my best guess.
Yes, your right, the last 8-10 episodes have such a huge tonal shift from the first 6 episodes that a script change…
I actually think it's mainly the last 6 episodes that the shift occurs and in particular the last four. Don't forget that episode 10 was when HJP confesses (something I wasn't expecting). It seemed like at that point it was all gearing up to the twist but then just as the ship was sailing in to dock it suddenly veered off course for no plausible reason and sank.
Okay, I’ve finally come out of hiding. I actually wasn’t in hiding the whole time I was just gathering my thoughts, although I definitely couldn’t bring myself to come here on the 6th. For anyone who doesn’t know what I’m talking about, I’m the biggest clown on MDL. I was SO sure (99%) that HJP was the endgame and I made no secret of it. But do you know what? I still haven’t taken my clown makeup off. After spending the 6th and 7th getting over the shock, I’ve spent the last couple of days coming to the solid conclusion that HJP was originally the planned endgame. Here’s what I think happened. This is pure speculation but it’s the only way I can make sense of this drama.
I strongly suspect that NJH has it in his contract that he must end up with the female lead. Otherwise it’s like being demoted to second lead. I also suspect that the powers that be at TVN insisted on hiring him due to his marketability and made it necessary for the ending to be changed. Now you might ask, why then did the writer not change the whole story around NDS? Surely it’s more likely that this mess was just an accident on her part? Why would she still deliberately leave all the hints pointing to HJP? Why would she still prioritise HJP over NDS whenever she placed them in conflict with each other (as in, NDS usually came off worse)? Why were HJP and SDM colour coordinated? Why were SDM and HJP the only ones with love themes (I’m not sure if this point is still valid, correct me if I’m wrong)? If the ending was changed for NJH why not change all those details accordingly? Isn’t it more likely that it was a combination of incompetence and misdirect? Maybe I’m giving the writer and director too much credit but my answer is no, that’s not more likely.
My guess is that the writer and the director decided to tell the original story as far as they possibly could. They might have done this partly to salvage what they could of it and perhaps even in the hope that the audience might figure out that the ending they were contractually obliged to deliver was not the ending they intended. That may sound far-fetched or like I’m grasping at straws but I assure you I am now over the disappointment (with the help of 2D1N) and all I’m left with is perplexity. I cannot understand what on earth the writer was going for unless she intended for a twist in which the second lead gets the girl. Since seeing the ending, I have re-watched the episodes up to episode 12 (I’m going to pretend that’s where it ends) and it has just reaffirmed my initial suspicion that HJP was meant to be the endgame.
We'll be missing your share of thoughts & optimist inputs, please do drop by if you have any sort change of mind…
I keep being called optimistic. Although I believe Miji is endgame, I've been betting on it being miserable for us right up until the end. It's hilarious that Miji fans consider that optimism. xD
I'm just here to leave my last comment until the 6th as I'll be watching the last four episodes in one go. My hope is that things will take a turn for the better from episode 13 onwards but my fear is that it will continue to be painful and slow for us Miji fans right up until the end. I'm still expecting HJP to end up with SDM but I'm nervous about how it will happen and what will happen in the meantime. Anyway, it's been fun chatting to you all. See you on the 6th.
there are high chances of HJP getting butchered for dodal ending.... they know HJP is currently the favorite and…
I also believe I'm being realistic. I tried very hard to convince myself I was wrong when I first started to see it because like you I didn't want to set myself up for disappointment but ultimately I couldn't because it all fell into place. Each episode has only made me more convinced, even the preview of the next episode is well within my expectations for how it will play out.
When I said that I thought you were a lost cause I wasn't trying to insult you. I only meant that I could I see I wasn't going to convince you.
Out of curiosity, if HJP does end up with SDM will you assume that the writer changed the ending or will it convince you that she was planning this from the start?
Just thought of something to be grateful for. HJP's storyline still hasn't gone stale even though we're now 12 episodes in. Most K-dramas seriously suffer from being too long and this one is no exception but HJP is still going strong because his arc is a natural slow burn. Everytime he's with SDM it still feels as exciting as it was in the beginning, actually more so. Usually the chemistry dies long before the end.
there are high chances of HJP getting butchered for dodal ending.... they know HJP is currently the favorite and…
Well, I can see you're a lost cause. :( I won't keep trying to convince you but I will just say that I think you're focusing too much on behind the scenes stuff and comparing it too much to other K-dramas. If you just focus on the drama itself the writer's intentions become very clear. I can't stress enough how low an opinion I have of how she's executed it but I believe I can see what she's trying to do. We'll find out for sure in a little over a week.
there are high chances of HJP getting butchered for dodal ending.... they know HJP is currently the favorite and…
There's a difference between storylines such as the letters and symbolism such as the rain and thunder. You say that things can be dropped suddenly in rom-com K-dramas but that's precisely why it doesn't deter me that she's still in-love with NDS. Fate and destiny are often important themes in K-dramas and they don't get dropped as easily as the storylines.
As for the promotional stuff, NDS is the main lead so it's not misleading for them to promote him as such. Not to mention the fact that NJH is much more marketable than KSH. I think that HJP is the protagonist of this story even if he's not the main lead. It's possible it was an accident but the twitter thread I sent to you convinced me otherwise.
Maybe you have and you weren't convinced but it convinced me. I believe the writer has already set up the twist and it's just a matter of prolonging the love triangle to the end. Like I said, I'm not assuming that the writer will pull it off well, I just think that's what she's planning. The fact that four episodes may not be enough to build up the romance is neither here nor there to my mind. Actually, I think 4 episodes is enough but I'm not counting on the writer making the most of them. She might be one of those writers who likes to prioritise the twist over the narrative. In other words, in order to make it more unexpected she won't set it up as much as she should. I hope I'm wrong and she has made use of the final episodes.
there are high chances of HJP getting butchered for dodal ending.... they know HJP is currently the favorite and…
I think HJP will end up with SDM but I don't think it will necessarily be executed perfectly. I believe it was the writer's intention from the start to write a story about a man yearning after the woman he loves and for him to finally get her at the very end. The problem is she had to create NDS and this infuriating love triangle to keep HJP and SDM from getting together. She could have written it better but she didn't so what we have is a drama that is 90% mess.
Although HJP isn't written perfectly, there is a certain realism to his character that I believe explains his strong appeal. Actually, rather than realism let’s use the word impact. The more impact something has, the more you believe in it and therefore it feels more real than something that has less impact. So what is it that makes him impactful?
In most Kdramas the male lead and the female lead meet early on and quickly become romantically involved. Meanwhile the second lead pines after the female lead. We have varying levels of sympathy for the second lead from one drama to the next but usually he’s not that important to the overarching plot so we can accept that it’s not meant to be. If he is important, he usually has his own second female lead to be paired up with. The crisis occurs when he’s both important and pines after the female lead. In my opinion this has never been a more apparent problem than it is with this drama. However, I don’t believe it was an accident. This is a story about yearning and HJP is the main protagonist.
I think there are three main problems with this drama that have let down the main story: the tone, the setting and the other characters in the drama. For the most part, the tone is that of a typical Kdrama rom-com. Although HJP’s storyline is quite sad, the other storylines are lighter, sillier and take up more time. As for the setting, I think something that could’ve vastly improved this drama’s quality was if they had stayed in the original SST office instead of moving into a fancier place of work. Sandbox feels very imaginary and like wish fulfillment. The other characters are also far less well developed than HJP. Except maybe the grandma who is about as developed as she needs to be.
I've said before that if you only focus on HJP’s storyline it's actually a really good drama. By no means perfect but better than most. The writer has really shown her hand by writing HJP so much more carefully than the rest. That's the giveaway to me that HJP is the point of this story. Even though everything revolves around him, it wouldn't be that obvious if the other characters were better written. The only reason anyone has doubts about the endgame is that we've been told that NDS is the lead and we're not used to second lead getting the girl. If you hadn't watched a Kdrama before and you weren't reading the comments you'd assume HJP was the lead.
For your daily dose here are my three main reasons why I'm confident HJP is endgame.
1. HJP's storyline is so well developed and carefully thought out. Although the rest of the drama has gone flat, all the other storylines feed his and his just gets stronger. His relationship with Grandma has been a highlight of the drama and the writer has made full use of it. His relationship with SDM has been so carefully handled, people particularly biased towards NDS have failed to notice the chemistry that has been building up between them because it's so subtle. It's really all in the looks they give each other. Although I don't think SDM has strong feelings for him yet, there's always something between them whenever they share the screen.
2. NDS is such a poorly written character, not anywhere near as carefully thought out as HJP. Usually in a love triangle someone has to come off worse and in this case it's almost always NDS. For instance, NDS lays hands on HJP first. HJP has his moments but they're either played for comic effect or he comes back from them, like when he's about to sabotage NDS and SDM but changes his mind thanks to Grandma.
3. The symbolism and foreshadowing. I won't go into this in any great detail because I'm not as good as some at noticing it. I'm only aware of the examples from reading other comments and I usually butcher it when I try to explain it myself, but if you're a MIji fan you've probably read all the same ones that I have so you know what I mean.
These three things combined have made me convinced. Not hopeful, convinced. I still don't have a lot of hope. I'm expecting the drama to continue to give us pain right up to the end. If you're hoping the drama will see SDM get over NDS in the next episode I think you should lower your expectations. That way you won't be disappointed if she's still with him in episode 15 or even the majority of episode 16. Just hang in there, it's not over 'til it's over.
It’s more than possible that this story was always meant to be a simple, light hearted, love story with the running theme of following your hopes and dreams. The ending does seem to suggest as such. The problem is that’s not what the story ended up being. Instead it became a clash between dreams and reality. Inevitably, in stories about dreams vs reality, reality emerges victorious. Except here it didn’t. The sad thing is that normally it’s harsh when reality wins out. In this case, the writer had the opportunity to show the beauty of reality over dreams. While NDS represented a fantasy, HJP represented reality. I actually don’t have a problem with HJP calling NDS the real NDS from the letters. In fact, I always thought that anyway. Both the NDS from the letters and the NDS from SST were just a fantasy. People who SDM placed all her hopes and dreams in but who ultimately fell short.
Ironically, HJP represented the real deal. Afterall, he is the one who challenged her and helped her grow. Throughout the drama we continuously see reality butting heads with dreams and we rooted for reality. Why? Because it was embodied in a character that we had so much sympathy for that for once we wanted reality over dreams. SDM too had a shift in episode 12 where she changed her original answer to HJP and tells him she wants facts, not a future filled with hopes and dreams. That scene suggested to me that the writer was fully aware of her themes and knew what she was doing. However, it is possible that the writer accidentally added way more depth to this story than she had planned. To some extent stories write themselves. I can certainly see how HJP may have unexpectedly offered the story a layer that the writer hadn’t been banking on. I’m so unconvinced that she didn’t do it deliberately but if it was an accident then what we have here is a total failure on the part of the writer to recognise exactly what story she was telling, what her themes were and who her protagonist was. I’ve roughly outlined my reasons already for why I don’t think that’s the case but either way this was such a missed opportunity. I urge people to give the writer the benefit of the doubt and consider that her hands may have been tied.
I think what this disagreement comes down to is how you interpret the first 10-12 episodes. I have been fully convinced by all the fan theories and episode analyses that there was meant to be a twist in which HJP ends up with SDM.
There are three possibilities. Number one is that some of us are delusional and saw themes, clues and plot threads that didn't exist. Obviously I don't think I'm delusional but then I wouldn't would I? Number two is that we're not delusional but we wrongly assumed the writer knew what she was doing and the story ended up being something she never intended for it to be, hence the disappointing ending. Number three is the possibility I put forward in my comment that it's neither the case that some of us are delusion, or that the writer is incompetent. Rather, the writer was forced to change her original plan but stuck with it as far as she could.
Yes that's my point. Since he was signed in as the male lead it sealed the fate of the ending. If you were a producer on this and primarily concerned with making lots of MONEEEEEY, what would it matter to you whether it's HJP or NDS who is the endgame or 'male lead'. So long as you've got a top actor with lots of screen time your goal will be achieved.
I know it is possible that this was just incompetence but both thematically and narratively it made more sense for HJP to end up with SDM. The fact that NDS was the male lead doesn't matter. My argument was that the writer was planning a twist but then couldn't deliver on it because of NJH.
I'm not trying to blame NJH because I doubt it's even fully in his hands and I may be way off but that's my best guess.
I strongly suspect that NJH has it in his contract that he must end up with the female lead. Otherwise it’s like being demoted to second lead. I also suspect that the powers that be at TVN insisted on hiring him due to his marketability and made it necessary for the ending to be changed. Now you might ask, why then did the writer not change the whole story around NDS? Surely it’s more likely that this mess was just an accident on her part? Why would she still deliberately leave all the hints pointing to HJP? Why would she still prioritise HJP over NDS whenever she placed them in conflict with each other (as in, NDS usually came off worse)? Why were HJP and SDM colour coordinated? Why were SDM and HJP the only ones with love themes (I’m not sure if this point is still valid, correct me if I’m wrong)? If the ending was changed for NJH why not change all those details accordingly? Isn’t it more likely that it was a combination of incompetence and misdirect? Maybe I’m giving the writer and director too much credit but my answer is no, that’s not more likely.
My guess is that the writer and the director decided to tell the original story as far as they possibly could. They might have done this partly to salvage what they could of it and perhaps even in the hope that the audience might figure out that the ending they were contractually obliged to deliver was not the ending they intended. That may sound far-fetched or like I’m grasping at straws but I assure you I am now over the disappointment (with the help of 2D1N) and all I’m left with is perplexity. I cannot understand what on earth the writer was going for unless she intended for a twist in which the second lead gets the girl. Since seeing the ending, I have re-watched the episodes up to episode 12 (I’m going to pretend that’s where it ends) and it has just reaffirmed my initial suspicion that HJP was meant to be the endgame.
When I said that I thought you were a lost cause I wasn't trying to insult you. I only meant that I could I see I wasn't going to convince you.
Out of curiosity, if HJP does end up with SDM will you assume that the writer changed the ending or will it convince you that she was planning this from the start?
Everytime he's with SDM it still feels as exciting as it was in the beginning, actually more so. Usually the chemistry dies long before the end.
I won't keep trying to convince you but I will just say that I think you're focusing too much on behind the scenes stuff and comparing it too much to other K-dramas. If you just focus on the drama itself the writer's intentions become very clear. I can't stress enough how low an opinion I have of how she's executed it but I believe I can see what she's trying to do. We'll find out for sure in a little over a week.
As for the promotional stuff, NDS is the main lead so it's not misleading for them to promote him as such. Not to mention the fact that NJH is much more marketable than KSH. I think that HJP is the protagonist of this story even if he's not the main lead. It's possible it was an accident but the twitter thread I sent to you convinced me otherwise.
I'm giving Miji a 99% chance.
https://twitter.com/Jeonggal_/status/1328583037769101315
Maybe you have and you weren't convinced but it convinced me. I believe the writer has already set up the twist and it's just a matter of prolonging the love triangle to the end. Like I said, I'm not assuming that the writer will pull it off well, I just think that's what she's planning. The fact that four episodes may not be enough to build up the romance is neither here nor there to my mind. Actually, I think 4 episodes is enough but I'm not counting on the writer making the most of them. She might be one of those writers who likes to prioritise the twist over the narrative. In other words, in order to make it more unexpected she won't set it up as much as she should. I hope I'm wrong and she has made use of the final episodes.
In most Kdramas the male lead and the female lead meet early on and quickly become romantically involved. Meanwhile the second lead pines after the female lead. We have varying levels of sympathy for the second lead from one drama to the next but usually he’s not that important to the overarching plot so we can accept that it’s not meant to be. If he is important, he usually has his own second female lead to be paired up with. The crisis occurs when he’s both important and pines after the female lead. In my opinion this has never been a more apparent problem than it is with this drama. However, I don’t believe it was an accident. This is a story about yearning and HJP is the main protagonist.
I think there are three main problems with this drama that have let down the main story: the tone, the setting and the other characters in the drama. For the most part, the tone is that of a typical Kdrama rom-com. Although HJP’s storyline is quite sad, the other storylines are lighter, sillier and take up more time. As for the setting, I think something that could’ve vastly improved this drama’s quality was if they had stayed in the original SST office instead of moving into a fancier place of work. Sandbox feels very imaginary and like wish fulfillment. The other characters are also far less well developed than HJP. Except maybe the grandma who is about as developed as she needs to be.
I've said before that if you only focus on HJP’s storyline it's actually a really good drama. By no means perfect but better than most. The writer has really shown her hand by writing HJP so much more carefully than the rest. That's the giveaway to me that HJP is the point of this story. Even though everything revolves around him, it wouldn't be that obvious if the other characters were better written. The only reason anyone has doubts about the endgame is that we've been told that NDS is the lead and we're not used to second lead getting the girl. If you hadn't watched a Kdrama before and you weren't reading the comments you'd assume HJP was the lead.
1. HJP's storyline is so well developed and carefully thought out. Although the rest of the drama has gone flat, all the other storylines feed his and his just gets stronger. His relationship with Grandma has been a highlight of the drama and the writer has made full use of it. His relationship with SDM has been so carefully handled, people particularly biased towards NDS have failed to notice the chemistry that has been building up between them because it's so subtle. It's really all in the looks they give each other. Although I don't think SDM has strong feelings for him yet, there's always something between them whenever they share the screen.
2. NDS is such a poorly written character, not anywhere near as carefully thought out as HJP. Usually in a love triangle someone has to come off worse and in this case it's almost always NDS. For instance, NDS lays hands on HJP first. HJP has his moments but they're either played for comic effect or he comes back from them, like when he's about to sabotage NDS and SDM but changes his mind thanks to Grandma.
3. The symbolism and foreshadowing. I won't go into this in any great detail because I'm not as good as some at noticing it. I'm only aware of the examples from reading other comments and I usually butcher it when I try to explain it myself, but if you're a MIji fan you've probably read all the same ones that I have so you know what I mean.
These three things combined have made me convinced. Not hopeful, convinced. I still don't have a lot of hope. I'm expecting the drama to continue to give us pain right up to the end. If you're hoping the drama will see SDM get over NDS in the next episode I think you should lower your expectations. That way you won't be disappointed if she's still with him in episode 15 or even the majority of episode 16. Just hang in there, it's not over 'til it's over.