RJ_Jacob101

Wow huge age gap... ugh no lol not for me.

Without Foon, I just don't care as much anymore, he was my favorite character :( Still I like the chemistry between the mains so I'll finish lol, I just miss Foon.

Actor playing Pluem looks like Nanon and Tay had a baby together.

They never focus enough on secondary couples... which are almost ALWAYS better than the main. There I said it.

Yeah I understand that BL isn't made for people like me. Problem is, the stuff that IS made for gay people is way under budget (which I can accept to a point) but its also extremely depressing. I HATE, lol and I stress the word, with a PASSION OF HATE sad endings. So I pretty much dislike all gay romance. Its depressing, its mean, it leaves me feeling empty at the end. At least BL is happy, I just don't like some of the tropes and problematic elements that seems to heteronormalize gay romance so no matter which media I consume, I'm gonna get disappointed lmao. Some BL is perfect, most is meh, some is terrible imo. And BL doesn't cut all the toxic masculinity out. Like possessive, overbearing, brooding, stoic, stereotypical broish manly men do appear in BL sometimes lol. I do think BL overall is getting better from my perspective but I still find myself cringing at certain elements.

That's kewl :), I'm not gonna say it shouldn't exist I just personally don't like straight-to-gay because its easier for me to believe in magic than people changing their sexuality lol. Now a "straight" guy discovering they also like guys then coming to the realization that they are bi or whatever, okay that totally happens so I can believe it. But like a true straight guy falling for that ONE and ONLY other guy, nah because thats like soulmates which I don't care for either because I don't think being fated to be together is a good thing. Free will, choosing to be with someone seems for balanced. Like I don't want guys forced together, I want them to come together.... no pun intended haha!

LMAO! Yeah true some probably are. There's been times I really like something, a story or piece of art only to find out the artist is a terrible person. Its weird how sometimes the best art is made by the worst people. Oh totally! I watch something messed up and then think to myself... what kind of mind comes up with this! LMAO! And you are right, a lot of messed up stuff isn't hate based or romanticizing trauma/rape/ect, but cathartic release. However I'm of a different mindset in that catharsis for me is best expressed by a total rejection of said troubling material and in its place a happier, healthier focus is placed on better elements. I don't like experiencing someone else's pain so why would I want to unload my own pain onto others in a story? I just think differently I suppose in that regard.

Sexual harassment/assault is common enough in the gay community. We may be gay, but we're also still men and men are (not all) dogs. Actually that's insulting to dogs... lmao! Again I'm kinda joking but men can be pushy. Also, male rape often goes unreported because of embarrassment unfortunately and is often not talked about because some people don't think its a real problem :( And see maybe that's where I have a disconnect with some people. To have a cathartic experience by indulging in sexual violence that's sometimes in BL seems counterproductive in the sense that its sometimes comes off as a romantization of the very thing they fear most happening to them. I hope I'm making sense lol, sorry if I'm kinda scattered.

That makes sense, and yes the gender of the person I'm with is important so therefore a clear sexuality is also important to me. Now this doesn't mean I don't want zero representation for non-binary, sexual fluidity, gender-non-conforming, ect. It just seems like sexual ambiguity is the majority of BL, especially in the past, and then I feel I cannot relate to the majority of those shows. And gay entertainment is already SEVERELY limited and pretty much always sad - and so when the more popular BL is the only stuff with happy endings and fluff, I feel left out of both camps of entertainment. I can see how a straight woman wouldn't care about a dude's sexuality as much when watching them kiss another guy because they aren't a gay man like me who is looking for something a little more concrete and grounded when it comes to labeling one's sexuality in order to feel a connection, a camaraderie, solidarity, with a character. We gays are a minority and its a lonely, mainly straight world so to connect with a character on that level feels special for me.

I understand what you mean but there are plenty of straight allies who don't have any dog in the fight when it comes to gay rights. They are just good people who care about more than just their own lives, their friends, their families, ect. Kinda like people who volunteer to help the less fortunate even if they themselves have always been fortunate. Like egalitarians, utilitarians, they want to maximize happiness but not just for people like themselves or others they know, but for all peoples. But you are right, in general, most people aren't that generous and concern themselves with things only when it directly affects them or someone they care about which is a sad but understandable fact of humanity as we are now.

Well those who cannot empathize with others outside their own world, at least in my opinion, are inward thinking. It seems selfish but hey we're all guilty of selfishness at times. Oh true! Yeah sometimes its like, this person doesn't know what they're talking about in this area, so they ought not exploit this for their own personal gain lol! I think all people should do a little research, no matter the subject material. I certainly don't know everything, I WILL humble brag! Haha! I love to admit my own faults, its liberating at it shows me where I need to improve as a person and human. Although self-deprecation if taken too far is definitely unhealthy. Everyone's opinion is important to someone, even if only to themselves, but true not every opinion can be or should be implemented. Especially when an opinion seeks to alienate others. And that's hard, I struggle all the time with trying to be inclusive without exclusion of others I see as "over-represented". I'm not perfect, sometimes I contradict myself and sometimes I'm hypocritical. I wanna be consistent but that is also difficult considering how changeable most people are. But I try lol.

YES! I enjoy talking with people who are interesting and can do good back and forths like this :D I can come off as aggressive, combative, snarky, bitter or dismissive at times so I appreciate that you don't get seem to get frustrated with me haha! I can be a bit overbearing in my opinions at times. And thank you! I'm just about to head to bed again haha! When it comes right down to it, I'm much more tolerant, open and less judgmental in life - I can just be really picky when it comes to entertainment/fantasy cuz sometimes I just feel left out even within my own community. Like I said, most gay romance made for gay people is just depressing and I like happy stuffs haha! BL gives me that happy side of gay romance, but then its not gay romance its BL and there again is my issue. I don't want BL to change completely just for me or others like me, I don't want to take away from others. However, I really do like it when BL tries to be a little more inclusive as I really do enjoy BL on the whole, way more than "realistic" gay romance - as if gay people can't have happy endings. BL shows us, even if unintentionally, that LGBT+ people CAN have a happy ending. Thanks again for the fun and interesting convo!

I am soooooo sick of the "we knew each other as children" BS trope, omg its like COME UP WITH SOMETHING ORIGINAL! Ugh, I hate tropes. LOL okay I like SOME tropes, but others just get done WAY too much, sorry for the small rant lol.

Ah I see, I understand what you mean. I agree, I like natural chemistry and actors having fun with their roles that they really throw themselves into. It does make the whole experience more enjoyable for me too.

Oh I definitely see how that could get annoying, all the presuppositions muddy the reality. And true, I really REALLY hate slashers, or any crime drama that focuses on serial killers. I don't think they should be humanized in a way that seems to excuse, dismiss or romanticize that behavior but I don't think people who watch that stuff are evil... maybe the people who wrote it.... haha I joke i joke. Some people are just darker in personality or attitude than others. I'm not into lesbian porn either but for different reasons :P but I see your point. I'm not against straight people doing gay entertainment but I wish they were, I dunno, kinda more aware of the experience. Like do some research haha! But everyone is allowed to create their own fantasy and if others like it, I guess thats kewl. OMG yeah the BL fandom ime is widely accepting and healthy, but there are some who take it too far to the point of harassing actors about their real lives and that's not right. I'm kinda semi-escapist. I want an escape, being gay sometimes comes with a lot of adversity and heartbreak, I wanna be happy. At the same time, I want enough reality to keep me grounded and the material relatable. I wanna believe these two guys love each other, not see two straight dudes kissing haha! I like mixed bags in most cases.

True, knowing gay people in your own life definitely opens doors to understanding the experience better which can greatly enhance the quality of writing when it comes to believable relationships in that regard.

Oh yes I agree, most people I chat with who enjoy BL are very open, accepting, kewl people. I was speaking more in generalities about how sometimes the world sees gay+ people. And you are right, love has no gender true but romantic love does even for those who are interested in all genders. I personally don't like the whole "lets not label it" thing that people think is progressive but actually is pretty dismissive of large sections of people. Its kinda like how, until recently, bisexuals virtually didn't exist in BL lol. I mean they did, but they never identified as such. Some people think, why are labels important? I think, why are they not? Its how we categorize, organize and recognize. Its the same reason we all have names and so does all the stuff that exists that we know about. Everything ftmp has a label already haha! But BL has recently become more active about having characters identify as a specific sexuality. I think the REAL reason BL hasn't done so in the past is because it was a manipulative tactic to leave it ambiguous cuz they believe a gay man, or even a bisexual man, won't appeal to straight women despite them coming to BL to see two guys get with each other. They wanna have their cake and eat it too and then frame it as progressive haha! But its just business, a money making tactic imo.

Interesting convo so thank you for that! I'm heading to bed now but I'll reply as soon as I can!

I mean that's true, they didn't choose what happened to them and they cannot like give up everything natural to humans, like love, because of it. That's why I don't blame the characters themselves, more like I just don't jive with the premise. And I say hate but maybe that's too harsh a word, I like the chemistry and the acting. Its not an offensive show to me, just doesn't click I guess lol! With me personally, attraction is 1 third looks, 2 thirds personality. So when someone (at least me I guess) falls for someone, part of that is their looks. But maybe that's because I'm a guy I dunno lol. So if I fell for someone, then one day they get switched back into their original body, it would be jarring imo.

I love angst and fluff but I hate sad/bittersweet/open endings haha! So I like fluff too, I wish gay romance wasn't so depressing ftmp. Sure have angst, realistic experience, but have a happy ending! I want a show that leaves me feeling good so maybe a fusion of BL and gay romance? But I get what you mean, I like a bit of an escape too. I'm not into the straight-to-gay trope myself. I'm gay so the idea of "changing" a person's sexuality is a bit problematic in the sense that it bolsters the "you choose your sexuality" idea some people have about us gays but that's just my opinion.

I have played visual novels with outright assault and read really trashy smut mangas/manhwa so I'm not super against troubling narratives, so long as they end well haha! GMMTV is pretty tame ftmp, when I hear trashy I think smutty haha, like Mame's works, some of which I like haha! Anyways I hope I don't sound judgy, we all got our own likes and dislikes so I try best not to be one of those "Oh, you like THAT! Meh! MEH! You can only like what I like!" lmao! To each their own :D

Writing BL - Okay, two characters that are complete opposites, check! Make sure one or both are rich too, check! Scene where one guy nearly gets hit before being grabbed and pulled away into an embrace by the other, check! Rain scene conversation, check! Rooftop scene conversation, check! Beach/Camping/Road trip, check! One guy gets sick and the other tends to him, check! Nice guy second romance interest to shake things up, but they never win even if they are better, check! Silly misunderstanding that spirals out of control, check! All girls are evil or overly (like creepily so) supportive characters, check! Stereotypical gay comedic relief character that never has a boyfriend, check! Staring into each others eyes too long, check! LOL I exaggerate and of course there's BL that does it differently, and many BL I love but tropes are often utilized WAY TOO MUCH!!! lol I think this list probably mainly pertains to Thai BL but you can find it in all major BL nations.

See I love ITSAY, great and respectful gay romance. I hate Vice Versa because of the body switching. I think to myself, hey those ARENT their bodies and yet they use them to be intimate with each other? That seems like a violation of that other person's body they are inhabiting lol. I like most of the actors tho. I'm just not usually into GMMTV BL because it seems sooooo mainstream (family safe) and formulaic. They do have a few gems, most imo are forgettable.

I like this writer, BUT they always (usually) seem to include an age-gap relationship for some reason.

I'm so SOOOOOOO hoping this has a happy ending, I hate sad/bittersweet endings lol. Koichi is just too adorable!

Haha totally! But seriously I wish this series had more episodes to tie up loose ends with other characters that kinda got pushed to the side in the later episodes.

I really like this series so far! Last episode was really cute and I'm liking the chemistry!

I am just not liking this series lol. I'm trying to get threw it, but I just don't jive with the characters, I don't like most of the pairings (latest couple has no chemistry and I don't like the stereotypical manly top with cute bottom trope, make them both cute lol), already seen the first couple together in a different series so nothing new, nothing special. Its depressing too, I love drama but not only drama. I don't like only fluff either lol. Needs more balance. Tops don't always have to look stereotypicallly straight or toppish.

They totally robbed us of RainPayoo and did them dirty.

Man Shun deserved a little more time, just an allusion to POSSIBLY getting with Oh , ugh. Not enough. Not enough Rain Payoo either, any development in their relationship we didn't get to see once he went AWOL. My favorite couple in this series and they get shafted. I like the main guys (the actors) but WAY too much focus on mains AGAIN.

Taiwan is an independent COUNTRY not a part of China. BL is banned pretty much in China, not Taiwan. Taiwan has gay marriage, China does not. Taiwan has their own ELECTED leader, China does not. Taiwan is a SOVEREIGN NATION.

I like the main couple so far, not into the boy-man secondary but at least its secondary.

Why? They can't have children. Seriously, consensual incestuous people are treated like gay people in the 1800's. Its not a weird dynamic, two bros, two sisters, two same sex cousins, assuming all are close in age, I don't see the big deal. I wouldn't wanna date my own brother, but I wouldn't mind seeing it depicted since the only arguments I hear about it are cultural and religious, NOT scientific (real). As long as no one is being victimized, live and let live.

FIRST! NEO! AJ!!!! ALL BOYS SCHOOL!!! Okay I'm watching this one when it airs tomorrow :D