Rahab75

Yes, I have. All three bit the dust off too easily for my taste.

I know it is too much to ask from an Asian drama to have an awful father die in agony, since it never happens, but this would be a nice exception.

Chen Hai Wei doing things haphazardly, recklessly and without involving others into it is actually very much in line with his character.

But this is not a criminal justice court. The debate is not about who's going to prison for the crime. No one in their right mind would say it is not the father who has to. The issue is Sun's moral responsibilty and his contribution to the tragedy.

And who defended the debtor? And does his greater reponsibility mean Sun has no responsibility? What is the point of this argument other than trying to minimise Sun's part in the outcome?

Nothing to do with my points, but nice try.

It is actually quite hilarious to see people in the comment section wallowing in cognitive dissonance and trying to make loan shark job seem like that of a postman or a shop assistant, trying to justify him like "he was only doing his job", "he did not want to cut the kid, only threatened to kill her" (mamma mia, ONLY), "he felt bad for doing this" (where the hell did he???!), "the debt must be paid back to the mafia". The mind boggles. If he was a marginal thug character doing this in Knock Out or in Love Like a Bike they would hate his guts but since he is a glamorous BL main lead all of a sudden nothing is his fault.

I am not saying that Sun is irredeemable or that we could not understand his reasons why he became an underdog, but he should reflect on his past actions for the actions themselves a lot more, and not only because he lost his family. What I loved about Jack and Joker that it portrayed the personal dilemmas and self-deprecating of poor people in the spiral of underworld, but so far Sun shows little to no of these. If his mother and little brother were not taken away from him he would probably have no remorse at all. It is only episode 1 so I give him the benefit of doubt, this might happen later in the show. But the revenge plan is already a very easy escape route to shift all the blame on Bank (regardless of how nasty character Bank is).

It seems that being a loan shark, threatening, beating up and cutting people with a knife is suddenly a respectable profession as long as it is done by a glamorous main lead of a BL.

What does this all have to do with my point?

"For real though, who the hell passes out in the middle of an aggressive makeout sesh?! "

Those who are not used to hard physical work and then even drink rather too much wine afterwards, maybe.

And when could we see he felt bad? When he was knowingly cutting her hands one after other (rewatch it) with poker face and when he threw it at them on his leaving that karma is a bullshit? Seriously, you guys are unbelievable.

Maybe google what "victim-blaming" means and do not toss around it like a buzzword. Sun is not a victim here, if anyone is that is his little brother. And yes, he is partly responsible. He knew full well he was risking his family with this job.

You are the one who wants to give a free pass to someone just because he is a main lead of this story. Yes, he called that upon himself. Being a loan shark and threatening to take away an innocent child’s life and cutting her with a knife is not a normal, everyday job no matter how you try to paint it as one. Sun should have known that with his job he risks the safety of his family and he did not care. That father lost his mind and committed a horrible crime out of desperation. It is still a despicable and unforgivable crime but Sun should have considered such things are hanging in the air if he keeps doing this job. So yes, he contributed to his brother’s death. And contribution means responsibility.

That is whataboutism and justifying loan sharks. Sun exactly knew how poor people often have no other choice, he is one of them. Furthermore yes, he was doing his ILLEGAL job. Sun knowingly decided to throw people in similar financial situation under the bus. No one is defending the father’s act but Sun called that upon himself and his family. He should reflect on that a lot more.

Has anyone considered that in spite of Bank/Sunny basically Sun is still responsible for his little brother’s death? Sun decided to help wrecking other people’s lives in order to get money for his own family.

If you ask this you did not pay attention. He was the guy whose daughter Sun thrratened to kill.

Gap is not a full villain in my eyes. He is certainly not a very nice character at the moment but it is clear it has not always been like this. They were friends with Sila but Gap's horrendous father turned them against each other. Once again a rubbish parent.

I downloaded the uncut versions from a torrent site and they are all above 50.

This is a debate board, you clown. If you cannot stand being contradicted stay with playing with your barbies, kiddo.

I think so too. That’s why he said everything was blurry and that he only remembers going to Nao afterwards.