Nepeta 22

It's great to hear that you are pushed to learn the language. I am not as motivated as you though...I'm also surprised too with that drama not getting subbed, because there was a big effort internationally to have that subbed but to-date, still it's not subbed. Oh well.

On the other hand, we can't complain. After all China is not trying to court the international audience. Their stance is, if you want to watch you learn our language. I think that line is perfectly fine since for too long those that know or speak English simply expect everyone around the world to adopt their language whatever reason. But in domestic dramas, I think this is not a priority.

I know, it took me twice as long and in the older dramas, they are upwards of 50 episodes! But, I wanted to watch a drama depicting the time just before CPC won the civil war. I haven't done many like this since, so not ideal, but obviously a bit desperate. Nowadays, many dramas are subbed luckily.

Someone on here earlier said they thought Qing Dynasty dramas are banned and got a result of someone saying only ones showing lavish lifestyle? Is this why dramas like The Thirteen Hongs is just left to rot? I believe that drama has been made a long time ago and there has been no further updates. There was only a trailer.

I am a bit upset that this drama is coming out with a similar theme. Why? Anyone know anything? I'm not a fan of Chen Xiao's acting or Sun Qian's acting, but am interested in the theme.

What I tend to do is I try to watch the episode without subtitles. Then I go over to Baike Baidu page and then auto translate to English and read the episode guides. There I find out if I have missed anything. I did this on the whole of Fearless Whispers drama. That's another option.

I agree, and I do mention this from time to time on other forums, but it's a bit of a sore subject and can be difficult to discuss since it can touch on all of us to some extent, but it does need exploring and discussion when I often see only FL or female characters are targeted but seldom male characters. That is not really by accident...

So far I haven't had anyone making trouble, but normally I get no response which is fine too since it can cause friction and negativity.

I hope to see drama makers moving away from doing so much fan service and taking too much notice on some sections of fandoms simply there for their basic fantasies. It can take away true drama making, story telling and of course coherent storylines that make sense rather than feed basic fantasies.

Whilst it might be true that some male actors may do this but in this case, I would hardly call this a female centric ip to begin with and I think the highlights here do not veer wildly to the source novel. I heard the author has already hinted the ML's character was even more cruel in the novel and the FL lead was like a doormat and pining after him. I would think to get this acceptable, they'd have to dial down his cruelty and make the FL more independent and not mindlessly chasing him.

Try telling that to some of these toxic viewers. Some are so brainwashed by the editing, they'd rather lust after a cruel and cunning ML because they are not actually watching the drama, but simply inserting themselves there like some kind of fetish to be punished.

I think to some extent a fair few viewers here fall into that category but they are unaware of it. This is why BL is big, because it simply takes away the "FL problem" and simply goes full-on lust for the men. This is also why FLs become easy targets most of the time, even when the ML is domineering, abusing their position and being manipulative. All dodgy traits in real-life, but in a drama setting, they want a male character to be like that so they can be the only one that can tame him. Such low grade fantasy.

Ooh, interesting. That is indeed some spoiler! Thanks for the heads-up on that. I may dip in soon. I hope you enjoy the rest of the drama. Let's hope the drama is not outside of the actual drama!

Yes the topic of how male and female characters are written or directed is complex and it always interest me in how writers try to depict each other. Sadly as you say, the issue is a worldwide one and not just specific to China. But, I think it's slowly changing. Sometimes, original scripts seem to be more dynamic and on the ball than some of these older novels that tend to be more fetishes as you say. Hope you enjoy the rest of the drama. See you around...

Totally agree with your comments there. For now, I have nothing more to add other than hope there will be a change. A turning point for story writing where there is balance and less of the learned behaviour from decades of brainwashing from the men's narrative, that even female novelists fall into the trap of writing ML characters as cruel, domineering and manipulative and trying to then re-spin it as uncontrollable love that is only reserved for one female. (childish fantasy that should stay only in a book for select target audience) and she has to endure it because he's so in love he can't contain himself so he may do cruel things along the way to protect and cherish her.

Even writing this, I start to cringe! Some of these novelists are just low-brow smutty fantasists. They then complain when they see their novel being cleaned up for the general public, but totally unaware of how their novel looks like to a passerby. Anyway, enjoy the drama. I will see if I pick it up soon.

Yes I heard. I have no respect for some of these so-called novel writers. Happy to lap up the glory when things go their way, but quick to abandon ship when the going gets tough. They'd rather shift the blame anywhere but face criticism.

I heard that the original story was so bad that it had to be changed for it to be accepted to be ready for a 2020 audience. FL was more or less a doormat and more or less allowed the ML to take advantage of her.

I heard that author apparently even complained that the ML adaptation was too weak and not cruel enough. She may be in her own little fantasy of having men dominance, but she needs to know when this type of story is adapted it needs to be modified.

Some of these novelists are just mere smutty writers writing their own fantasies of how they want men to dominate them. That's my honest opinion. Therefore, I am not at all surprised at this low-brow behaviour.

I'm afraid I only watched 1 episode and cannot continue due to my dislike of actor Wang Zhuo Cheng. Knowing he figures heavily in this drama, I am undecided. I don't think it's right for me to pin anything up in discussions.

The issue with many historic romance dramas are trying to balance the customs of that time and trying to merge it with modern day standards. Many novels try to make forced or arrange marriages work by labelling them as enemies to lovers, but many of the storylines use ML characters as a tragic victim to make it more palatable to the modern viewers. I can see this opens up a can of worms where FLs are then written more like difficult or challenging personalities to uplift the ML's dominance. It's a shame.

But I think it's quite heinous when FL's character is honest, open and never has an ulterior motive, she's then labelled as stupid or dumb! These are good traits the last I checked...Some viewers cannot put down their own prejudices and just clear their heads to watch a drama. It is what it is.

She watched 1 episode and decided no more. That's her choice and I respect that. She has her own standards with story telling and camera work. I too only watched 1 episode and decided to not watch. But for a different reason. I don't like Wang Zhuo Cheng's acting or his dememour. Knowing what is ahead, I cannot stomach a whole drama seeing his acting.

But what I find more disturbing is the constant mindless attacks on the FL. It's clear she's too pure and innocent for them. If that is so, why still watch and continue to attack? This is the story. There is nothing wrong with being idealistic and innocent when male lead characters play them, but tons of hatred when a female is like that? Moreover, she's labelled as stupid. I fear some viewers' bitterness in real life have influenced and infiltrated their viewing experience. They cannot watch with a clear head. That baggage needs clearing out before they can fully immerse themselves into any drama.

A voice of reason, but you will not see much reaction to this because most that shout the loudest are often unable to admit nor even see they're watching with a bias already but most often unable to know that they're brainwashed by the filter that often spins the line of toxic behaviour hidden under the guise of obsessive love. A very dangerous line that glamourise deception and re-selling it into pure love. But no, they go after the easy target because they think she should wise up because they think so without even dissecting the story rather putting their own bias and filter into it.

It's all too common on these forums. In A Dream Within A Dream, we get to see it in full swing. And the funny thing is the ending right up to the last minutes were a slap back at those that had made all those comments. It will be silent for those that made similar comments to the ones here.

Being given an all-seeing-eye, some viewers fall into the trap of constantly expecting the characters to do exactly what they want with the knowledge, conveniently ignoring the character doesn't have that luxury. It's fine to show frustration from time to time, but when it descends into threats of violence to FL with name calling her as I have seen words like bitch & ripping her hair out. That should be called out. Those that do that really ought to look inside themselves for actually venting that way. Would they do this in real life?

That's because you are not watching non idol style dramas. Reality is, most dramas outside that are between 7.3 to 7.7. It is fandoms that inflate these types of dramas making people think they are really worth that type of rating. Thee's a lot of filter in the ratings and nowadays, MDL is nothing more than a fan site.

What can I say about your comment. You have more or less reacted exactly as I wrote earlier. All this "we" and "they". You are bringing fandom fights here from other places. And if comments are deleted here, just say so. It wasn't mentioned until I made a comment. But I am not seeing much of that "hate" here.

No need to go in exact details about the type of comments because you and I know they are lies concocted by rival fan groups which is now part and parcel of fandom culture in China and looks like it's now copied outside China. That creates a childish ripple effect whereby fans say they need to fight back in the name of "protecting" their star.

The star did not ask for fans to fight against work they have signed and agreed to. All too often fans cannot accept the reality of choices made by their actors and end up in low level squabbles from rival fandoms that goad them. They should all know better. This is all inside the circle fighting.

Outside of it, just another drama waiting to be made and distributed. The debate should be more about why they needed this particular actress with her very young age. ML's age will always be used as a way to down him, but that's obvious and doesn't even need explaining or defending.

No problem, it may be some have deleted comments earlier so we just don't know. But generally, I think it's goodwill all round and I think the pairing works. That's if you don't hone in about her age, which is a separate issue about the industry and the people that is associated around her right now.

I repeat again, HMH may only get hate from fandom fights in China, and some spill out internationally because it's learned behaviour and sadly it catches. If only people can differentiate between good and bad behaviour...

Thanks for letting me know how you arrived with your original comments. What you say makes sense (gap in work, lack of promoting) and it's still speculation on whether she has left that agency. But the signs look like it.

Only thing is, whether her original contract was a long one as usually they tend to tie actors down in China. She'd have to pay up for cutting contract short and I heard many agencies in China actually make money from unsuspecting smaller named actors this way.

They sign up and never really have any intention of getting actors jobs causing them to try and get out of contract, and many do pay up to get out of the contract. If this is true, it really needs more regulations if people are using this part of the contract to make money off poor budding actors.

PXR has indeed kept a low profile and I like how she is willing to keep going and taking guest roles here and there. She actually reminds me of an older sister version of Song Zuer, another talented actress!

In China right now, I think they are looking for more relatable looking actresses. Sometimes, it is not about talent but about their outside persona which is why stars like Esther Yu and Zhao Lusi capture audiences. It's sad, I feel it's more cult of personality rather than heads down and do the acting.

While the ratings here is going down, it's going up in China. I also noticed it's going up some of those data charts too. I still feel this drama will be a benchmark for fight scenes. After watching the fight sequences here, I'm sorry to say that all the other dramas look weak.

Who is you? I would say 90% of the comments on here in MDL show no hate. More like hate shown to the FL. As explained previously, the concern is of a young lady possibly being exploited. But instead of entering a proper debate about the industry, we see cutting remarks on her making that choice herself and salty comments about her causing hatred towards ML.

Step back and see what your comments look like. You may be trying to bring Chinese fandom wars here but admit that rather than act like it's happening here on this page. BTW, most sane humans will know it has nothing to do with the ML. Only those that fall into the trap of the inner workings of fandom culture in China. ML is doing fine. He doesn't need defending at all. Outside the circle, it's all good.

Regarding MZY, I would take many of these comments as a pinch of salt. They normally come from rival fandom wars that seems to be all the rage in China. It's a common line to put others down.

I think, in China, they really don't like the old ways of connections and money buying you places/status. But, I do agree that for a small portion, connections are still part and parcel of the industry. But, I think it might be reserved for those that may be part of the 'Beijing circle' which normally means parents or relatives that are part of the writing, production side of the industry. Their offsprings are normally part educated abroad and usually return to China primed and ready for roles that are suddenly there. That is where I think this type of comment about "backers" originally come from. For the rest, it is a bit of luck to be honest.

Circling back to PXR, she will be like a large portion of actors/actresses, they need a break-out role that resonates with the wider general viewers to get better resources on future projects.