Unidentifiable

I'm technically still a teenager and I relate to all this.
Oh, except the concept of close friendships, those are alien.

Tunnel:
This is a great example, because there are two villians. And for the first half of the show, you'll probably only think that there is just one villian. The actor for the first is one who I am so familiar with, have seen play an antagonist so many times, that I recognised him from his voice after just one sentence. It shows you that he is evil, it does not try to fool you. But as the episodes go on, you realise that there's something off and it turns out the true mastermind is the guy who was doing the autopsies all along. A far less unassuming character, and for me, a far less recognisable actor. And best of all, once enough hints are dropped, the story essentially discards the first villain and makes no attempt whatsoever to disguise what we already know. Nonetheless, the revelation actually took me by surprise. It was SO REFRESHING, after seeing so many Kdramas that just go in circles because they think their heavy-handed foreshadowing is subtle, when it's painfully blatant. I liked the way this was done and handled. By using a well-known actor who is typecast to disguise the real mystery, as well as other things, such as compelling characters and all that.

Save Me 2:
This is another example. The main antagonist is an actor who I have seen several times play a genuine good guy. He was the mentor, totally benign. And it would've fooled me if I didn't know the premise. Here we see a refreshing take: an actor who I feel has been type-cast, and then reverted this for maximum dramatic effect. Far better than the first Save Me, whose man antagonist was an actor I'd seen before many times as a villian.

The show, again, does not try to fool the viewer. And seeing both sides of the mask is far, far more chilling than a dramatic reveal ever would have been.

Stranger:
Another great example would be Stranger. With villian, behind villian behind villian. Who aren't all working together, but represent the multifaceted nature of the mystery. As well as having one of the "villians" really be the very society that the characters live in, like the corruption that comes with power, and not, you know, a person. But many articles have been written about it and you used it in your examples, so I don't feel the need to go in depth.

Watcher:
A drama that failed with this was Watcher. Same director as Stranger, it was interesting to compare. They cast a character who was type-cast as a villian as the villian, and even though the writing suspected him and then moved on only to eventually return, it was anticlimactic, because me, as a viewer, never felt sufficiently fooled. Because the simple fact was this: they never introduced a character who was more likely to be the villian and therefore, because I've never seen the antagonist turn out to be random-never-before-seen, it must have been this guy. There was no other option.

Some of the side revelations were surprises, but ultimately, the drama felt more like a method for commentary (on society, corruption, ect) than it did a satisfactory mystery. It was open ended, which was fine, because life continues, but yeah, very much a classic example of a Korean detective mystery. Albeit one done very, very well regardless.
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I also agree with your assessment of Jdramas and Kdramas and their differences. It's interesting to put them in words. Thanks for the great article. Villains always make the show: a bad, dumb villain can ruin everything.

Also Jdramas generally do episodic mysteries far, far better. In my opinion. Kdramas like Missing Noir M suffer from being far too dramatic/implausible in just 1 episode to feel suspenseful, and they lack that Jdrama quality of making the absurd feel normal.

Oh yes. I watch a lot of Korean crime/detective/thriller shows, and there are some actors who I've seen play such convincing villains that they are, inevitably, typecast. The antagonist (at least, the visible antagonist) is almost always some I recognise immediately... and that really makes the mystery feel anticlimactic and frustrating, watching the main character go in circles when I guessed the evil almost immediately, several episodes ago.

My favourite "mysteries" (because they're technically not such a guess-who mystery) are ones where the story makes it known who the antagonist is early on. Even if the characters don't know as much, at least the writing/casting is not taking the viewers for fools.

Two villain casting/portrayals that I feel are particularly noteworthy are these:
I will add a spoiler comment for Tunnel and Save Me 2. As well as some spoilers as I go on to talk about Stranger and Watcher.

Most definitely!

I've been waiting 2 years... July so soon now!

Yeah I agree. That whole arc requires a rather large suspension of disbelief.

omg yes!! that would be. Brilliant. Bastard is one of my favourite webtoons and it would make the perfect thriller drama.
Also, I only read the first 20 or so chapters of this back when it was very new, but it was pretty good. I recommend trying it. .. and I should catch up before this airs too.

Thanks for your recommendations. I think one of the problems is that I just, don't enjoy time travel. It's not that I dislike the concept, it's that the whole fish-out-of-water scenario scares me. Someone who doesn't know how to behave right, who accidentally makes things worse and where a whole lot of time is devoted to their learning process... I get second hand embarrassment very very easily.

I think about historical dramas is that they're usually either comedy or tragedy. I automatically gravitate to the serious tone in a tragedy, but they are inevitably, tragic, and it's just not fun when all the warning signals are there, but the character makes the decision that makes them dead. Particularly when I can see a less-stupid move that would not end in tragedy... because most tragedy feels cheap, like it's the writer's goal to just wring out as much emotion from the viewer as possible. Sometimes tragic endings are okay, even good, if the story has already accomplished its goal and the inevitable death is /meaningful/ .. but it usually opens up more questions that it answers, and that is not okay.

This is the case with Cdramas... as for Kdramas, I'm usually scared off by the female lead before I even get that far. Because let's face it, in about 7/10 historical Kdramas that I have seen, the female lead felt like a side character, an excuse for a very uninteresting love plot, and that was it. Examples: Six Flying Dragons, My Country: The New Age, Haechi (okay, not so bad character, but awful actress), ect. It's particularly bad in dramas set in the Joseon era, because women had no power, and romance and politics are not a fun combination, don't get me wrong, I love politics, but not when the conflict is driven by romance. And then dramas that have a female protagonist, like Queen Seon Duk are just too /long/. Not that I have an issue with length if it's worthwhile, but a lot of scenes felt like they were there for the purpose of making it even /longer/.

Sorry if my response was too long, I could say more, but I really don't want to come off as ranting. Because I do like the historical genre, or the idea of it.

I've always liked the idea of historical dramas, and I start every one thinking I'll enjoy it, but I never ever manage to finish them! Even if I love the characters, the story always winds up too convoluted - and too long - to feel worth it.

A bit too straight-forward for my taste. Too much action (there was going to be action, of course) but there's no subtlety whatsoever. I was interested because of cast and revenge themes, but it looks like it's not for me.

Nope! All my favourites are cable dramas! I find the quality in MBC and SBS generally, well, they're less interesting.

You missed out OCN. Where does that fit into all this? Because at least half of my favourite dramas are from OCN.

No I haven't seen Hanzawa Naoki yet. I suppose every time I looked into it I wasn't in the right mood or something.

Also, you may like the currently airing Nobody Knows. I can't tell you if it ends well, because it hasn't ended, but it sure can set the right tone. I found it captivating within seconds.

Very good points.

To be honest, I didn't mind the young female prosecutor being killed off. Perhaps because I watched it after so many romcoms where the writers simply won't kill anyone, and also perhaps because I didn't really see her as a love interest. To me, she just felt like a junior who admired her senior for his competence - I think her character could have just as easily been written as male. Another reason she didn't feel like the love interest was simply this: the male lead was not looking for romance and the writer held to that throughout.

About the emotional breakdown and shock that occurred, I felt that it was building and inevitable, so it hardly bothered me. But I plan on re-watching it soon and will keep my eye out for this and see how it feels again to be sure.

As for villains, well. Yes, they were made obvious from the start, but I loved how the culprit was only very indirectly connected to the clear antagonists. I did not see it coming at all. It felt very interesting, because the culprit is usually the Big Bad Guy, but here, he was small in the scheme of things and it was fascinating. As for politics, corruption and morals, well, I like them when they are well executed, so I did not mind. The head prosecutor jumping of the building felt so, so brilliantly anticlimactic that I loved it.

We can always complain about fan-service and moralisations, but they are hard to get away from. They are everywhere and they make up the bulk of many stories. Only, when they are executed well, with A+ script, acting and directing, I find them forgivable because there is often so much more to a drama that makes it strong.

Oh yes that's right, Solomon's perjury is a remake. The original is probably better - but that explains why a lot of it felt very Jdrama-esque. Also, it's unfair to compare Tunnel to Signal, sure, they have the same themes, 80's, time travel, serial killers, ect, but the story and execution is massively different. It holds it's own and to be honest, I liked Tunnel more, even if it was harder to get into.

Ah yes, locked room mysteries can be very overdone in Jdramas now that you mention it. And yes, a lot of Kdramas are very angsty, but sometimes that can be a strength and they are usually brought to justice. I didn't enjoy Signal because of the awful ending which made my stomach churn at the injustice.

I'm surprised that you didn't like Stranger, it was my favourite, but we all have our tastes. I'm curious to know what you felt was off about it, because I loved the female lead (even if she was very secondary at times) and the female prosecutor, while weak, she was mostly just inexperienced. And there is no romance, there is a refreshing male-female friendship. Also, there is a direct sequel scheduled in a few months so the ending was not finite. (I feel the pain, I've been waiting 2 years!)

I often find Jdramas far worse when it comes to writing female characters, although Kdramas often make me grit my teeth as well. That said, they are getting significantly better every year in that regard.

I recommend:

Tunnel. Be warned, the main character is time travelling from the 80s, be prepared to be tolerant of his behaviour until he adjusts to the present. Once it gets going however, it can be very enjoyable.

Children of Nobody. Very dark tone, it investigates some serial murders, but with a very new light. They are not random killings, as the killer definitely has a moral code. Powerful.

Life on Mars. It's a remake of a western series, but this is pretty good. It has a very unique tone. Undertones of romance, but really, it's just the modern time-travelling hero treating the female lead with the respect she deserves - as a result she admires him greatly.

WATCHER. Definitely good. Probably very much what you want. Although it gets a bit complicated in the middle, it manages to save itself and end well. I found the mystery a little bit anticlimactic, but sometimes it's worth the journey.

Solomon's Perjury. This is one of my favourites and it happens to be set in a school. Great, believable young characters and hugely underrated.

Defendant. More suspense than detective, but the mystery and emotional journey is great, if you can withstand some poetic licensing with reality.

The Lies Within. In my opinion, probably a bit subpar compared to the rest, but it is police detective and not badly acted. I managed to finish it, but I really think the story could've been brilliant from another angle. You'll see if you get there.

Save Me 2. I haven't seen the first and therefore can't recommend, they are unrelated to each other. There's some sexist themes in this, but it is very unglamorised and nearly chilling. Very deeply psychological with oh so grey characters who have so much buried beneath the surface. Definitely more thriller than detective, but it has an air of mystery about it and reaches a deep dark tone I've never before seen in a Kdrama. Very slow build, but uh, great for anyone who enjoys a serious story.

Also, a lot of shows from OCN tend to be great, once you weed out those like Missing Noir M. I too was very surprised by the high regard, I totally agree with you there. I had to fight from going to sleep and didn't make it through episode 2.

Because you're used to Jdramas, you probably won't enjoy all of these, but there is little romance in any, unless you try very hard to read between the lines. Looking at this list, I think Jdramas tend to focus more on mystery, whereas Kdramas veer more towards thrillers.. I have a lot more which I have not finished but intend to finish.

I'm not sure if I qualify, because I haven't watched many Chinese detective/mysteries I tried, but couldn't get into them, if that says something. Even the most highly rated ones felt uh, not so great to me. Cdramas excel in historical settings, that is undeniable.
Honestly, I love Korean and Japanese detective/mysteries both. They each have their own strengths and weaknesses.

Kdrama:
+ Overall production value and polish.
+ Overarching plots and interconnecting story lines.
+ Great revenge themes, often.
- Tendency to to make everything too interconnected
- Tendency to over-dramatise things, particular childhood connections.
+/- Kdramas without romance are uncommon, but sometimes the lack of romance which makes them unpopular can make a show brilliant. Likewise, sometimes romance is included where it is blatantly unnecessary.

I have loved more than a dozen Korean detective/mysteries, and I recommend investigating the best. Also feel free to ask me if you want recommendations.

Jdrama:
+ Shorter series length and episodic in nature. (Not always, but often)
+ Ability to make the mundane interesting in almost anything.
+ Ability to make the wild feel normal.
+ Often don't need romance to be strong.
- Female characters often need better writing.
+/- Creativity. Sometimes it's a strength, sometimes it's a weakness. It really depends on the audience and execution.
+/- Many manga adaptations. not always bad, sometimes adaptations are well done, but the source is always a lot better. And sometimes it causes the story to lose the sense of reality that is the biggest strength in a Jdrama.

Naturally, both countries have their cliches, but the best dramas in both frequently subvert or ignore these tropes.

Please note that I have watched far more Kdramas than I have Jdramas. Often, because they are harder to track down or I am familiar with the source material and therefore feel less desire to revisit the same story. (I watched anime and read manga for several years before I entered dramaland)

Personally, I don't think W or Strong Woman Do Bong Soon qualify. They are 6th and 7th in MDL's most popular category on the front page.
I'd also argue that Signal doesn't either, as it is the most popular and most highly rated drama in its genre. When someone asks for a thriller/crime/investigation drama, it is always at the top of the list.
Otherwise, I see some interesting choices here, and many that I agree with.

I'm wary of this because it's a romcom, and I'm wary because to be honest, I haven't liked a project from the writers. But still, memory is a topic that fascinates me. No, not cheap amnesia plots, I mean other looks at memories and their significance, just like this. So really, I enjoyed the first episode.

I also think they got the music right.

There was a flashback of them being classmates.