apocalib

Just wanted to post a general comment for ZZH/ZZS! I know Gong Jun gets a lot of hype and appreciation (rightfully so!!!) for his role as WKX but I haven't seen as much love directed towards ZZH.

I do think it's a bit of a pity (and one of the only criticisms I have with SHL) that ZZS's character has been dialed back and powered down. In the novel, ZZS is equally as powerful as WKX, resourceful and smart, and also flirty and bickers with WKX as well. The scriptwriter has mentioned that she made ZZS colder and more detached because that as a pairing with WKX would appeal more and I can understand why but it's still a bit sad to see that. WKX is such a dynamic character in the series (much more so than in the novel, tbh) and he's been made into a really engaging person, which with how HUGE his character is, makes sense that he gets a lot of the attention. I do hope that in the upcoming episodes, there'll be more explored of ZZS's background and more is made known about him besides just him having nails lol.

Love both Gong Jun and ZZH's acting overall, really appreciating how dedicated Gong Jun is to WKX and how effortless ZZH's portrayal of ZZS is.

ZZS's nails were sort of explained in episode 1. It's available with English subs on Youku's youtube channel.

Basically, ZZS was a part of a secret organization formed under a Prince. They protected/gathered secrets for the Prince and often killed his enemies etc. The nails were a form of torture thought up by ZZS himself because of how secret the organization was, if a member wanted to leave, it was only through death or the 7 nail process which results in death almost immediately. ZZS, because he was the inventor of the process, knew that if he placed the nails one at a time into his body (in the meridians) it would only cause pain and absolute death within 3 years so right now ZZS only has 3 years of life left to live.

WKX is the head of the Ghost Valley, which is a group of people who basically have no where else to go and are known to be "bad" martial artists who often kill/hurt others or just have no other option because they're not "righteous".

There's obviously more to WKX and ZZS background but it hasn't been explained in the drama yet. You should watch the episodes, they're slowly revealed through each episode!

This is my first time ever watching a cdrama where I've paid for the VIP subscription, paid for the advanced episodes to watch them raw AND also gone to watch the english subbed version when they're released. I'm literally following the schedule to a T. Congrats, Youku, you've really hit gold with SHL. (Now if only they'll get on Netflix so I can watch it on my TV too...)

There's no shixiong/shidi relationship between ZZS and WKX in the novel. They're strangers that meet and form a bond, although the relationship between them is similar in that WKX was always the flirty one chasing after ZZS. I would say that the drama is definitely a close adaptation but they've expanded on some of the characters and added some extra arcs. For ex: the political angle is clearly going to be of importance here whereas in the novel, it's basically non-existent. Up to ep21 would probably be around ch50~ in the book and there's only 78 chapters so the scriptwriter had to expand it somehow. Considering all the adaptations thus far of Priest's works, this is probably the most similar and most like the source novel. It's very much in the spirit of the book. Which is why, despite some of the changes to the plot and characters, the book fans are quite happy with this!

I don't believe any drama releases exact numbers in terms of budget but it's been said many times that this drama had a fairly low budget. It can be seen by the literal copy and pasting of extras in many of the fighting scenes (someone did a count and it's something like 5 extras being made into 25+ lol) and the fact that they waited for actual rain instead of using artificial rain during certain scenes.

Since this is a wuxia series, there's actually not a great need for CGI so I think they probably saved on that. Their costumes are all really lovely/elaborate so I think they spent money where they needed to be spent and scraped by elsewhere as with tight budgets. But from Cnetz comments, everyone's actually saying that even with a smaller budget, a drama of this quality can be made so I don't think anyone is actually dissing the drama in relation to the budget but appreciating it. I think it's obvious the cast and crew, from the actors to the directors and fashion team, all really cared about their respective crafts and did a great job with what they had. Passion, folks!

Considering they basically met in passing when they were kids, I agree. It doesn’t change the fact that ZZS thought of WKX as his soulmate since ZZS had no clue up till now. I mean they were kids and barely knew each other.

To me, the way they feel towards each other was already there before this reveal and this only adds another string of fate to it, so to speak. Also, Shixiong x Shimei is a regular pairing in wuxia series so I’m not sure why Shixiong x Shidi can’t also work?

Huh, lol interesting. All I have to say is that I'm glad the respective roles of ZZS and WKX went to ZZH and Gong Jun. They really have done a good job with the characters!

Technically speaking, Zhao Jing is just the Scorpion King's foster father. People are shipping them mainly because Scorpion King always has puppy eyes when he's talking to his foster father and tries to kill anyone that will take his foster father's attention away from him, lol. It's sort of a jealousy thing. You're free to ship whomever you want with him though! (I think you mean Ye BaiYi for the white cloth guy?)

As the previous commenter said, one of the actors was Li DaiKun who is now acting as the Scorpion King. He was rumored to be WKX but for some reason or other, stayed on instead for his current role. I think it was said that he's a fan of the original novel but I'm not 100% certain. Also, Mao ZiJun for ZZS who ended up quitting because of the pandemic.

Source: https://twitter.com/cdramarumours/status/1208645117759774720?s=20

I think it probably will dial up the intensity of the popularity in short term since it's going to be getting to even juicier bits of the drama in terms of trends but yeah, it's always for the $$. Literally every drama that's been released lately has gone the route of "become our VIP" and then "pay per episode!!!" I mean, if it ain't broke, then don't fix it, right?

I'm not concerned about it being taken down either. Tencent has HYX to air in April (if rumors are to be believed) and there's still SPL adaptation as well, like you said. Also, they seem to have gone the whole "I'm his Shixiong and he's my Shidi" route in one of the previews hahahaha. As long as it's not blatant making out or etc, I think it'll be fine.

I've replayed all their conversations so many times, it's absolutely amazing the way they literally were about to throw hands at each other and wanted to go fight outside xD I love ZZS being all "are you KIDDING ME" at WKX. Or the fact that WKX called YBY a kept man kjsndhksnhks pls I need more of them and I'm sad YBY can't be in it more.

I saw the 2018 ver you're referring to and same, it didn't give me the same spark so I dropped it as well. NGL, I watched all of the 2013 adaptation because I really enjoy Wallace Huo as an actor and same as you, Joe Chen is an actress I will always tune into watch because she's very stable with the acting she presents. I sort of feel like I know that I'll at least be getting something good in terms of acting and her chemistry with Wallace was definitely there. I sort of just....try to forget that that was an adaptation, lol.

My dad's favorite actor is Andy Lau so I feel like we still own every series he's done for TVB on vcr/tape. Of course, we've since replaced our tape player so I've had to fine all the series online and download it for him instead. (The most recent Duke of Mount Deer adaptation was so terrible. What's the point of an adaptation if you're going to literally change everything that makes the story what it is?!).

I don't have an issue with xianxia necessarily, but the problem is that often times, the cgi isn't there to back it up or the story isn't there. I hope studios are paying more attention to SHL and see that people are enjoying this not just because it's a BL but because it's such a good throwback wuxia story. Please give us more!! I want some old school fighting scenes as well! None of that stuff they did in LoF please, lol.

I've been watching all the new episodes raw and then whenever youkuo uploads on YT, I watch as well. I've honestly watched each episode twice! Starting tomorrow we'll get extra episodes, I'm buzzing!!!

It's just the norm for Cdramas! In fact, in comparison to other dramas that are also airing currently (Sword & Brocade for ex), they've already aired more episodes than SHL has despite having a later broadcast date. Almost all dramas do this. It's a way to a) drum up $$ since we'll be paying per episode we want and b) create even more trends/popularity. I wouldn't worry bc tbh, if they were going to take it down (knock on wood), they wouldn't give any early notice and would just do it.

I did finish LoF but I dropped it after 15 episodes and then sped through the rest once it actually finished. You're right with your analogy. They had a pretty good cast and they had the budget, but their CGI was terrible, and the way they filmed the fight scenes was terrible as well. I just didn't get any of that appreciation for the story the way that the cast/crew have with SHL. I think it was pretty obvious that it was executed poorly, as ZYL had complained fairly early on about the script. It was technically wuxia but it didn't have any of the wuxia feel. Complete MEH for me.

Oooh! I didn't know they did a new ver of Chu Liuxiang yet to be released! Thanks for the heads up, I'm going to bookmark it. I think one of my favorite storylines is Smiling Proud Wanderer but I don't see that being re-done very often. They're filming The Young Flying Fox (TBA) in 2021 it seems and I'm curious about it since it's not an adaptation that's usually done out of the Jin Yong series.

I just finished a re-watch of Demi-Gods (1997) ver with Felix Wong about two months ago and it was so goooood. I wonder why China's sort of gone off the wuxia bandwagon when it is received quite well? A couple years back they were churning out more and more wuxia series but I guess that's faded...

Unfortunately for our baby lovebirds, the scriptwriter wrote that she made a HE but couldn't do anything for Gu Xiang/Cao Weining so the book ending is probably what we'll get for them :( She did state in her post though that she's going to include what happens in the extra story into the drama ending somehow so!!!

Yes to everything in your comment!!! I have been in an intense wuxia mood for the last few months and did a marathon of some older TVB ones (I'm talking the Felix Wong ones and the Andy Lau ones!!) and while the quality is clearly laughable now, they're just so classic and wuxia, and timeless. Word of Honor has been one of the only wuxia series that is actually wuxia to me as well. It's so very traditional in a sense and it just has that overall feel of these two dudes wandering around jianghu doing what they want but also stepping up to do what they think is right (or for revenge).

...I haven't read 2ha but I know what it entails and lol there's nooo way that's wuxia. I know there's been a lot of discussions re: xianxia v xuanhuan as well, which is even trickier to classify. Truthfully speaking, there hasn't really been a more traditional wuxia in a while. I was really let down by LoF earlier too as it just wasn't what I wanted but SHL ticks off all the right boxes for me.

I am absolutely LIVING for WKX and YBY's snarking, omg. Their animosity towards each other is delicious. Please keep bickering and threatening to fight each other in the pouring rain, looool

I read your reply and agree with the same points too! (I'm also someone that grew up watching HK wuxia dramas thanks to my dad, hahaha)

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, lol. There's no need to excuse for any inadequacies as while I am Chinese, I read most of TYK in English before I read the last 20 or so chapters in Chinese since they weren't translated yet. It's been an interesting discussion, haha.

I will argue though that WKX's massacre of the Beggars was more just him being a ruthless man, and not because he's a demonic cultivator. For me, to be classified as a demonic cultivator, one would need to achieve their skills through unnatural means. The difference between CQL/MDZS and TYK is that in the former, they had "golden cores" that was the source of their "powers" and the stronger the core, the more power they could accumulate. In TYK, both WKX and ZZS (and everyone else) are essentially normal human beings that learned how to fight the good old fashioned way. It can be seen through the way they both try to teach Cheng Ling and WKX says himself that when he was a kid growing up, he wanted to play and would often neglect training his martial arts. There's no mention whatsoever of him ever obtaining his powers through any other means than the normal route of training. He's only strong because he's lived under a constant fear of dying and powered by pure hatred for his parents' killers to pursue revenge. I mean, the kid literally tore a strip of his father's skin/meat to make people think he was mad so he'd be taken in instead of killed. And he's only ever seen killing with his bare hands.

I think perhaps because both the term "demons" is used in MDZS and TYK, it might be throwing you off. In MDZS, it's referring to the literal dead who come alive or to actual ghosts that haunt people and require "purifying". In the setting of TYK, a more traditional wuxia scene, it just means those that stray from the path of "righteousness" aka those that kill for money or maybe pillage or basically those that do not prescribe to being "morally upright" citizens of Jianghu. That's why the Ghost Valley is named as such.

In one of the BTS for this drama, the directors for SHL also spoke about how they did their best to make this wuxia a more traditional one, with an emphasis on brotherhood and journey etc etc. I think that actually, most of the fighting is similar in vein to Crouching Tiger in that it's all wire work and very little CGI. It's traditional stunts and without the slow-mo camera action in the sequences, you can tell that they're not throwing around magical spells but using their qinggong to fly or escape (pretty sure it's mentioned more than once in the novel that ZZS's qinggong is top notch along with WKX's). ZZS's special footwork isn't magic but just a secret martial arts technique. And if you've watched ep16, the fight scenes that take place in the majority of the episode are clearly quite traditional wuxia with swords and flips, etc. There's nothing out of the ordinary in the way they fight, it's simply that ZZS and WKX outclass almost all the fighters in the novel, esp if you consider ZZS is regularly fighting with only 50% of his true capabilities until the last few chapters.

This has been a good discussion though!

Yes! Completely agree that the entire crew did such an amazing job! You could really tell that they put in a lot of effort and I’m really happy that the audience in China has rewarded them with a good douban score and great word of mouth as well! Budget isn’t everything!!! It helps that they didn’t need a lot of CGI (lol @ the underwater scene though hahahaha).

Yeah, I think it’s the repeated emphasis on inner energy vs very little mention of magical powers puts it more in the wuxia realm for me too. Either way, it’s a good story!