autumn carrot

Honestly, the levels of irritation this character has inspired in me, can only compete with Jin Mi and Jin Mi is my MOST DETESTED character in cdrama land ever, so go figure!

With friends like mimi guli, you really don't need enemies, do you?

Yeah! It's redemption by death! A lot of shows do this. When a character does shady things but then when they die or are dying they suddenly get the hero's death and everyone only says how nice they were or they suddenly reveal they were good all along...I don't like it!
It feels like they are erasing the severity of the initial bad behavior.

I think that's the best of two worlds though. Getting good work but not dealing with stalkers and creeps that come with mega fandoms? Sounds great to me.

I think it's fine. That show was a special case. Don't worry about it.

Is this casting real?

I still stand by my opinion, though. :D
I mean, mimi is supposed to be changge's only friend ? but she's not really a good friend. She was a spy who infiltrated the division. She keeps hiding things from them and yeah, the show has no romantic miscommunication but mimi guli's refusal to share information with the other characters creates a lot of unnecessary drama.
I don't really think they needed to connect every single character together, either. I do like some of the connections but as I said in my last post, it shouldn't have taken so much of the show's runtime to establish mimi's character.
I mean they spent 4 minutes on her watching She'er eat noodles and the scene added nothing to move the plot forward. Usually, writers are warned away from adding such unnecessary scenes in.
Now she knows that the khatun has planned something to hurt Changge but instead of telling Asun, like any sane person would, she just pouts and follows him around!

No,I don't give a dime about those fan wars over who's the best or whatever.
I'm just annoyed that so much of the show's runtime was wasted on mimi guli shenanigans. I wanted to know the exact amount of time wasted on her but I think no one has calculated those.

I actually think the show is exceptionally well cast. It's weird to think they mainly cast Dilireba for a mole. I don't think either Dilireba and Zhao Lusi had ever played any characters like this before but I think they both did an amazing job and they aren't the only two. However, my point was just about the politics of who gets to be called "main" or not.
I mean for western shows, it's somewhat easier to distinguish these things.
Usually, the main characters should appear in all episodes or only miss one or two episodes. So here, I would say Changge and Ashile Sun are the mains.
Then supporting characters are those that have important roles but are not necessarily there all the time. So I think Leyan, Hao Du, Shuyu, She'er, khatun, and khan and ... are those.
Then there are the recurring characters. Minister Du, Li Shimin, senior Qin, and the like.
Then characters who appear in one episode or just for one arc and then leave or die are guest roles. Like the nuns, Changge's parents, kings of other lands, and so on.
As for mimi guli's role, I personally wish they had just gotten rid of her earlier. I think her character is what I call a "labor" character. She's just there so they can put her to work in any role that needs filling. But then there are too many episodes spent on things about her that are not a part of the main narratives.
I think Leyan and Changge's dual journeys work exceptionally well together because they sort of lay the ground for both, in early episodes, and in a lot of ways they mirror each other. So the fact that they added Leyan to the plot was a very smart move from a narrative perspective.
I would say Wei Shuyu (bless his heart) is an entirely useless character as well. He too is a labor character who just fills in here and there when they need a familiar face. I mean, let's be honest. The love triangle was very timid, there was no real tension. Leyan liked shuyu and Hao du liked Leyan but everyone accommodated the others anyway. To me it seemed that Hao Du and Shuyu never had any competitiveness over Leyan, so basically Shuyu as the extra leg of the love triangle was useless. So yeah...pointless character. Handsome, but pointless!
My point is the show knows how unnecessary Shuyu is, so they don't waste time on him, but they spent too much time excusing mimi's existence when it wasn't necessary.
All they had to do was: 1) Establish her as Changge's new friend. 2) Hint her connection to She'er. 3) Reveal her role as a spy 4) tearful back story reveal. 5) One heroic moment and death!
She really didn't need to go on a shopping spree or get the first kiss on the show or have so many scenes where she talks sadly into the distance or has hallucinations of her brother. They showed her being of two hearts between friends vs. masters/family, at least three different times. Once would have been enough.
I do like the show. This is not me saying it's a bad show by any means. I just can't help notice things like this though.
You said the show needed a secondary couple and I am so glad they went with Hao Du and Leyan because they are honestly fun to watch. But then there's also mu jin and mimi....so unnecessary. And I'm not even mentioning Shiba and Xu Feng! (also unnessary romantic subplot imo)

Thank you! Well this is very interesting.

Interesting. So it's all about the industry politics, really....
Well, I'm just really irritated that I had to watch so much screen time get wasted on mimi guli even though she's not even one of the principal supporting characters. It's just annoying when a random character with a weak subplot and a charmless attitude takes up precious time that could be used on better plot points or just to shorten the length of the show and save some money.

Here's to him getting MORE main roles in the future

What are the words at the top of the table? the characters' names?

I actually was wondering about characters other than Changge and Ashile Sun.
I was wondering what qualifies a character as main vs. supporting. For example Wei Shuyu had moderately less screen time and presence (or plot) than Mu jin or mimi guli but he's a main. Or despite being mains, Leyan and Hao Du were missing from big chunks of the show. Like not even one appearance in three-four consecutive episodes at a time, at some points.
So it got me wondering how they decide who is main and who is supporting.

It is definitely a waste of time to actually calculate it but I have seen in some fandoms people collect the scenes of their favorite characters. Thought maybe someone would do it for the show since it's really popular.

Is there any record of how much screen time each character has?

I think the reasoning behind her actions were very good. the problem was with the execution of the actual behavior. It's like the khatun herself sees herself as a villain. She had no self-righteous air to her. I've noticed as long as a villain believes in their righteousness, they can be very charming. She lacked that.
I don't know if it's the editing, the acting, or the writing of the show but once she turned evil, she really went too hard on the disney villain style. A little bit more of her initial vulnerability or residue of her trauma could make the character appear more complex and sympathetic.

I think passage of time is not consistent in the show. For example, twenty episodes show just a few weeks but then two episodes show the passage of multiple months.

I know from the coup to Li Shimin becoming emperor took two months.
There's a lot of things that confuse the timeline though.
Like I think Leyan was lost for about four months maybe.
And Changge had her first period since she left home in Eagle division which would imply the whole thing took three weeks-ish maybe. Otherwise, that would have been a real problem earlier. Also apparently Asun took Shouzhou in 10 days so it all holds up.
But after that, I have no idea. There's also the confusing snow during the scene where Changge yielded the city. Otherwise, the seasons barely change. No one even changes their clothes in any way that would imply colder or warmer weather.
The traveling time from one location to the other is really messy too. Like Changge walked to Shouzhou on foot but Leyan was in a human trafficking cart and they took longer to get to a neighboring town!
They also move from north to south pretty fast.
Honestly, I've stopped trying to understand time in cdramas. Time moves in circular motions in dramaland.

Yeah, I just don't like this type of character, I guess. I can't think of any like her off the top of my head but I'm sure I have been annoyed by characters like her before. It's like she's just there to create trouble!