ceigna

Hi, I'm the one subbing this on my YouTube channel. I don't mind other sites taking my subs without my permission since my goal is to sub unpopular dramas so that more people can have access to them. But please give credit where its due. Dramacool is not the one subbing this drama. If anyone would like to watch this drama, please visit my YouTube channel (same username).

Sorry for the late reply. It looks like you might have found torrents for it already. But just to respond, I got my torrents here: https://www.btdx8.com/torrent/hsdyl_2021.html

I was going to write a long reply, but decided not to. Every point I want to make had already been made in the various comments throughout this post. If people want to be naïve and think CCP is not censoring their dramas, go ahead.

Thank you!!! I was also told to "find peace" and just...no, lol. Dubbing is lazy filmmaking at best, censorship at worst. Yet according to OP, I guess we're just supposed to put up with sub-par filmmaking and dictatorship and never speak up against it.

Lol, I guess I’m not even sure what we’re trying to discuss at this point that hasn’t already been covered.

You want me to name a Chinese actor that doesn’t speak standard Mandarin? I can’t. That exactly proves my argument against the OP’s #1 reason for dubbing in their article. You can’t name a single Chinese actor that fits the OP’s narrative. I posted the same question to other people on this thread and no one has been able to name a single Chinese actor that doesn’t speak standard Mandarin. The OP wouldn’t respond directly to me besides wishing I’d “find peace”, so I’m guessing they can’t name a single non-standard-Mandarin-speaking actor either. So that already shows OP’s #1 reason for dubbing - accents/dialects - is incorrect.

OP’s #2 excuse basically boils down to personal preference. They think some actors don’t sound the part and dubbing will improve their appeal. I don’t agree with that preference, but each to their own.

As for noise, low budgets, bloopers during filming, and time constraints (OP’s #3 and #4 excuses), those are all results of lazy filmmaking and I don’t think audiences should find excuses for them or accept them. Audiences wouldn’t accept bad CGI, poorly made sets/hair/makeup/costumes, bad acting, badly written script, bad editing, or any number of bad filmmaking that can be chalked up to low budget and time constraints. So why should audiences just accept dubbing? If one line is unclear, I’m fine with it being dubbed in post-production. That’s actually a common practice in most filmmaking. But the wholesale dubbing of everyone in the cast for the whole drama is unacceptable. It’s just lazy. Countries like Taiwan, Korea, and Japan are no less noisy than China, yet they can all produce un-dubbed dramas on less of a budget. Their actors also make mistakes, but that's why films are not all shot in one take.

I haven’t seen the dramas you named, so I can’t comment on them. You are right that not all Chinese dramas are dubbed, but most are. And if you want to ask me for the exact reason why some are and some aren’t, I can’t give it to you because I’m obviously not involved in the decision process. The two main reasons I can guess are lazy filmmaking (as mentioned above) and censorship. Post-production dubbing will allow the government to review and edit out things that they find objectionable.

Ultimately, it seems like we're agreeing on the main points: that accents/dialects aren't the reason for dubbing (even though it's the most common excuse given), and that dubbing is probably a result of their filmmaking process. For the latter, I would say once again that, instead of accepting it and finding excuses for the Chinese film industry, audiences should point out why that's lazy and bad and hope enough voices raised would make them change that practice. My hope is that, as they try to expand into the international market, more international viewers would voice their disappointment with the dubbing practice for them to change. But as long as there are articles like the one written by the OP making excuses and finding acceptance for such practice, then such practice would just continue on.

Lol, for some reason, the author doesn't like to respond to dissenting opinion, except to say "I hope you find peace with dubbing". I don't think they want to hold an open discourse on dubbing.

Noise occurs in all major cities, where movies and television shows are shot. Yet most nations are able to overcome that. So we can only assume it's lazy/cheap production. As audiences, I don't think we should be finding excuses for production. The same with bad CGI, bad script, bad sets, we should be pointing them out and demanding change rather than accepting them.

I don't know who Ming Yun is. If it's someone that commented on this thread, I didn't read every single comment. But basically, yes, there are different dialects in mainland China that people might speak to their family/friends. Standard Mandarin is taught in almost all schools (unless you're going to some remote village) so that people use it at school/work. Watching behind the scenes videos and interviews with actors, it's abundantly clear to me that every actor under 35 speaks perfect standard Mandarin. So it's a lie when people, including the author, say that there are all these actors with different dialects and they can't otherwise understand each other. Sometimes they hire Korean actors to bring in a bigger audience. In that case, I would think only the Korean actor should be dubbed rather than the whole cast.

In terms of accents, I addressed this many times in posts below. I speak Mandarin (originally from Taiwan), I have family and in-laws that also speak Mandarin (originally from Shanghai, Hubei, Hong Kong). Some of my colleagues speak Mandarin (originally from Beijing). I am able to understand every single one of them and they are able to understand me with no issues. And in the real world, we interact and co-exist. Accents is not as big of a barrier as the internet is making you believe. I was also able to independently travel to Xi'an and got by just fine, even though many people on MDL will make you believe a Taiwanese accent is unintelligible by anyone in China :D

Dubbing is being used by China as a censorship tool. One of their most popular drama recently is Word of Honor (you can look it up on MDL). It's a censored story to begin with, because the original source material deals with a homosexual couple and homosexuality is banned in China. According to self-proclaimed lip readers, they will tell you that there are many scenes that were shot with the actors saying certain lines that are too risque and end up being dubbed over with more tame, more ambiguous dialogue in post production. That's one of the most recent and obvious examples. But in general, Chinese dramas are rife with such examples where there are whole sentences in scenes that will not sync with the dubbed lines. And when that happens, it's China censoring something they found objectionable about the drama.

Name one Chinese actor that doesn't speak Mandarin well....can't? It's because no such actor exists. The excuse that dialects/accents is the reason China dubs their drama is just false. Even if such a rare unicorn of an actor exists, why not just dub that one actor? Why dub the whole cast?

Lol, you'll soon find there is no arguing with these pro-dubbers. I pointed out all the reasons that dubbing based on accents and dialect is a terrible practice. Bit the pro-dubbers will make you believe that the only understandable Mandarin is Beijing Mandarin. Every other Chinese accent are unintelligible to one another.

Right, I'm not saying dubbing is a "communist" ideal or anything like that. I'm saying it's the Chinese government's way of censorship. And I single out CCP because the China portrayed in ancient Chinese costume dramas certainly don't hold the same ideals as the current Chinese communist government.

People with different dialects certainly do interact. As far as I know (I haven't traveled to all parts of China and interacted with everyone, obviously), people in certain regions have their dialects but they all share some communal knowledge of Mandarin. In my experience, most people that speak different Chinese dialects will have conversational knowledge of Mandarin. And using a more personal examples, my sister-in-law comes from Shanghai and speaks fluent Shanghai dialect with her family and with my grandmother. But she also speaks fluent Mandarin with me and other family members that don't speak Shanghainese. So that's why I hate that excuse that China can't get actors that speak standard Mandarin. Most people in China are taught the standard Mandarin in school, no matter what their regional dialect is. You listen to any interview with a Chinese actor and they speak with standard Mandarin. There is no actor (to my knowledge) who speaks with such a heavy regional dialect or accent that they are unintelligible.

I don't have enough knowledge about mix race in China to talk about it, so I'll leave that to someone else that might know more.

But I certainly share your bewilderment as to why having different accents/dialects is so bad to China. I think accents make us unique. Some actors have really good and memorable voices and they're lost when they're dubbed. I posted further down that Chinese dubbing makes it so that I can't tell one actor from another. And when characters are speaking, they all sound the same to me if I close my eyes.

Well, different opinions. I share the same opinion as burhaaadmi and it's clear to us that politics is behind their decision. But people are free to deny the obvious.

Then that's just lazy production and, as the audience, I don't think we should put up with that and make excuses for them.

But it is political and you said it yourself. "If the Chinese government is determined that there can only be one accent..." The government is telling people what language they can/can't speak/hear and you don't find that political? You are not troubled by it? Imagine if a democratic government one days tells their media that only a standard accent can be used in all media...

Yes, it's a poor comparison to use English as an example. But based on behind the scenes videos and interviews, nearly all young Chinese actors speak standard Mandarin. Give me one example of a Chinese actor that doesn't speak standard Mandarin and I'll buy your excuse that their accents make it hard for Chinese people to understand them.

Except communist China is actively trying to wipe out their minority culture. But everyone is free to live with their head in the clouds, completely oblivious to world events.

Sorry, I have to disagree with that too. If China is trying to reach non-Mandarin speaking audiences, those audiences most likely can't tell one Chinese dialect from another (speaking from experience of having a non-Mandarin-speaking husband who watches drama with me). They won't know or care if one actor is speaking Shanghainese versus Fukienese. And as for slang? Don't they have scripts to follow? Why would you think the actors would be inserting their individual slangs into the drama?

LOL, not the OP, but I would love to see this rebuttal because I do not share the OP's POV either.

Yes! That too. Another thing about Chinese dubbing is that, if you close your eyes and just listen to the dialogue, you have absolutely no idea which character is talking because all these people sound nearly identical.

I agree with your point that acting also involves the voice. I get so put off with Chinese dubbing and how much the voice just doesn't match what the actors are emoting on screen.

I speak and understand Mandarin and I think the reasons given on MDL and in this article for dubbing are weak and misleading. Yes, China is huge and there are different dialects. But standard Mandarin is still taught to almost all children. So even if someone speaks a certain dialect with their family members, they will most certainly speak standard Mandarin at school/work. Watching behind-the-scenes videos, it's clear to me that all the Chinese actors (especially anyone 35 and younger) speak standard Mandarin perfectly. So whenever I see people defend dubbing by saying "China is large...so many dialects that we can't understand each other", well, that's frankly BS. In real life terms, I understand my in-laws perfectly even though they speak Mandarin with heavy Cantonese accent. It's really a BS excuse when people defend dubbing by saying that Chinese people can't understand one another.

I frankly think it's communist China's attempt at standardizing their language and thereby denying that other dialects/accents exist. They are wiping out Chinese culture and it's something a feel strongly against.

This X10. I ended up finishing that drama but OMG, Ariel Lin does not sound like a chipmunk on speed!

I understand Chinese (Mandarin), and dubbing doesn't make Chinese dramas "easier" to understand. I watch both Taiwanese and Chinese dramas and I have no trouble understanding the non-dubbed Taiwanese dramas. It's like saying Americans have to watch English shows dubbed in American accents because they otherwise can't understand the English accent.