drama_addict_123

Yes! Ok, admittedly, that makes sense. He put his hand on her to reassure her that he would be back after he confirmed from her reactions that she wasn't Jundai. I definitely see that as an inflection point but I don't see how he falls head in long to it.

I know he was battling the attraction and apologizing at every turn, but it's hard to reconcile how he hated her as Jundai and was also relenting. I think he was relenting some at Granny's birthday feast, bc he believed in a united public couple front, and also saw how hard she was working on the feast. His constant misgivings it was the same person as Jundai helped.

I support the romance and have the suspension of (logic, belief, continuity) you need with dramaland, but it's always more fun to see the minutiae of how they fall in love, esp with a good seductive romance done well.

I liked The First Jasmine, which has another scheming female and another handsome general, but TFJ's general started off seemingly with power and somehow ended up being less badass. BUT he had an awesome servant and best friend, both with amazing comedic timing. Can't help but compare with LZ's servant and best friend and they really pale in comparison.

Spring of the Blade....was alright. Love Xu Kai. Zhou Ye had bad scenes in other dramas, but this was the first time I really disliked Zhou Ye's acting. Scheming was bad too, but it was a light, easy watch if you need something!

I get *really* annoyed when they interchange the titles and names.

Lu Zhuo notes very carefully when WR calls him "my husband", "my lord" and "Lu Zhou" the first time after WR was creating distance and giving him respect by "my lording" him for ages. The impacts are lost - you can't tell when the hierarchy is insulting or not.

LZ was stunned when she finally called him LZ again. It's so intimate and it changed the tone and dynamic of their conversation and made him a little more desperate.

For example, both LZ and WR make it a big deal that QZK keeps calling WR "Wei Si" or "Wei Si Niang Zi" aka "Wei's fourth daughter" aka "Miss. Wei", instead of "Sister in law". He doesn't even call her "Ms. Wei", which would be "Wei Shi (氏)", and still mildly rude if LZ doesn't say it first I think. QZR is just being hella rude by calling WR by her maiden name as if she wasn't married, instead of the right title (aka "sister in law" or "Noble Lady Wu An") to his best bro.

I used to want to be a translator and wanted to translate faithfully. There's poetry in language (esp Chinese) and I was annoyed when translators didn't translate word for word. Viki used to have a function where volunteer translators could go in and many would sub directly word for word.

Later, I watched a kdrama called Run On that featured a translator FL, who highlighted that sometimes we need language equivalents to translate the meaning and there might be cultural contexts that people lack to fully understand idioms.

For example, some audiences might not be able to read the subtitles "your heart has me" and translate that meaning in their brain "you like me" fast enough to follow the dialogue. It's a benefit of being bilingual that you can compare and contrast the dialogue with the subtitles; furthermore, with a language like Chinese, you can break down the words of an idiom and get even more meaning and that can be a fun exercise even as a conversationally fluent speaker.

I see his interest and his conflict, but I'm rather referencing *what* about her he is attracted to, rather than when... mostly because I don't want it to come down to lust despite his misgivings about her identity and how initially thinks she's Jundai and despises her.

the scene was hella cute.

LZ scuttling over with the expression " oh shit, wifey is beating someone up again, must hide evidence", not even scared of her or worried about the victim, and then holds her hands up like she's a kitten when she was viciously beating his enemy moments before. lollllls

LZ joining the list of cdrama shameless lovesick yearning men. ;)

Yes, every line up to that point was correct, but "你心里有我“ (pinyin so you can track the dialogue: ni xin li you wo) translates to literally "your heart has me", which is cdrama way of saying: "you like me" / "you have feelings for me". If it was "still", it would've been "你心里还有我“ (pinyin: ni xin li *hai you* wo).

damn better than just plain ol' "you like me" or "I like you". swoons.

really? im surprised? I like his acting! his eyebrow and his panicked shift-y eye acting. I like how he shifts his weight, holds his breath, or his little sighs when he's dealing with WR. In romantic scenes, I think actors can be a bit too forceful and it's a similar expected scene but he's a bit more composed and calm even as the character is containing a lot of emotions within restraint and I like that! It makes sense for the character and definitely makes him more sexy (thinking of ep 20). LZ's a general, dukedom heir, and stoic in nature, so it makes sense that he has restraint in his personality. When Yan An needs to be angry, LZ is not just loud. I think that's where a lot of actors can go wrong and overreact. I haven't been wowed but I haven't been disappointed. Yan An's pretty consistent.

I'm also shocked that people say TCW is overacting. If she is, it's so it's to make it obvious to audiences that she's scheming rather than being sincere and sometimes it's genuinely hard to tell WR's motivations, until you see the character turn on the fake dramatics, aka TCW seeming to be very fake and "overacting".

LZ is pretty consistent where he won't kiss her or entertain her seduction, unless he knows she has feelings for him. He's already tested and confirmed that she was worried about his wellbeing... so that must mean she has feelings for him (lols LZ... a little more confirmation wouldn't hurt but this is dramaland.).

She relaxed into the first kiss and generally, doesn't hit him very hard, whether that's gently beating his chest for tricking her or giving him a post kiss slap, despite demonstrating she can throw trays at people very well. So for him, that's enough evidence that our girl has feelings for him.

:/ he's repeatedly said he can't read her true feelings (me too, dude, me too, unless she's pulling the dramatics) and he was hurt when she declared she had no feelings for him. There's way for him to know that - "oh no, she was just putting up a front..." so idk where his foundation of thinking she has the feels for him comes from, until it was a true gamble. The romance has romantic scenes that sweep you up! But there's not a lot of logical flow if you think about it. I suppose there's so much happening in between that the lack of romance continuity doesn't hurt the episode flow, until you think about the speed of the romance and look up from the whiplash.

Yeah there were tons of small snarky signs that she was jealous of Bitao and the sweet teen maid. And she was just a coward trying to save her butt.

I'm not confident of why LZ likes WR. Is it a mix of admiration for her intelligence, her physical attractiveness, and seduction tactics? He quickly goes from confirming her identity to admiring/crushing on her to saying: "say that you need me". How did his feelings develop so fast? (to be fair, he was always kinda jealous). Ep 16 was convincing that WR didn't have feelings for him and next ep she's kinda having feeling for him?...

The drama reminds me of Vincenzo - two technically gray characters who are fighting against corruption. LZ can be seen as gray if you remember that he's a soldier who has likely killed many. WR doesn't really do good for good. It's sometimes a just convenient byproduct for her to do good while she's scheming on how to stay alive. Even when she does a good deed, it's both "selfish" and empathy. I don't blame her for scheming to stay alive and even at times, for manipulating and using reverse psychology on LZ, but for me, she's not the most lovable character (unlike Ye Li in The First Jasmine, or even FL in Vincenzo) and I think it's because she's not sincere with LZ. But her saving grace is that she has vulnerable moments where she doesn't know she's interested and wants LZ. The scene where she's like - "he's nice to me?? Why???" (you want to comfort her bc g really doesn't know what love is) and then she divorces him for his future happiness while knowing how she feels.

I love the scheming reversal to balance the playing field, otherwise I would've felt too bad for LZ. WR schemed and had LZ fall into her traps. Now LZ gets her to fall into his little traps. She was using physical distance as weapons against LZ bc she knew it would unsettle him and he would take a step back. In contrast, I know LZ is not scheming but relishing and stepping into in the physical closeness, whereas it's WR that's unsettled and trying to create distance. Thank goodness he has his bearings and knows when she's scheming to get sth from him (either to get a bday gift or a baby), I want him to know WR has feelings for him.

The first time he checked WR's feelings, the English translation was wrong. The translation said: "you *still* have feelings for me" whereas what he actually said "you *have* feelings for me". The starting point was different.

This is the first drama that I've seen with at least three matriarchs grannies who were reasonable and badasses. They solve problems, fall on the right side, and get to the heart of things. The matriarchs might argue with each other (bday feast or grandmothers' confrontation) but they argue with grace and without pettiness. Cards on the table. Even Duke Gramps knows he married a baddie. Doesn't matter how war-hardened he is or how many sons he's lost, he can't override Duchess Granny and he'll step up to show the youngins what a punch looks like if need be.

I've tried to ignore the half joking comments you keep posting and I'm guessing that you're a man given your username.

Your comments seem to suggest that Dal's only attraction is his kisses and that women would be so weak to only be attracted to looks and whatever survival of the fittest nonsense you keep saying.

If it's survival of the fittest, no woman chooses only on looks. Evolution and biology would suggest they choose based on whomever seems to be a good father and is a responsible man. (I'm not saying that Dal fits those boxes, only your narrative).

You may insist that you're joking around, but if you're posting like this at least 3-4 times across the board, you actually believe it to an extent. You actually think women think physical attraction is sufficient and feel like you need to mansplain them to not fall for their wiles. You remind me of the guys who say they are "nice guys".

You oversimplify how women determine attractiveness and make them seem too simple-minded.

Dal's attractiveness is not his physicality and to diminish how he's actually considerate of YS, namely ensuring YS gets home safely even if they argue (parallel to the ex), protecting her from her ex and letting her choose how she wants to handle his ex (if she wants him to defend her or not), advocating for safe sex, getting her consent at every turn and even worrying at one point if he didn't correctly get her consent. How bout the fact that he helped to crash and burn the family meeting to give her freedom? YS wanted to go on a date with him, just so that she could see a different world while being with him - see end of ep 4 again.

YS didn't do anything so petty and small-minded as going on a date with SML to make anyone jealous. She got rejected, saw a potentially better fit, and took a chance. It was one hang out - it barely suits as betrayal.

Women don't need someone to mansplain to not trust a man who kisses well - I don't care if you say it was a joke. It doesn't matter if he's ugly or beautiful, the moment he opens his mouth, his attractiveness will slide on the scale.

I agree that I think we agree on quite a few points and we're just taking on different evidence and perspectives. A few clarifying points:

- I never called lil bro "disgusting or disrespectful". You might be conflating a different poster from me. I didn't share a stance on his behavior. If anything, I think his reaction seems pretty natural given his cards. He likes his girl, found out about his baby, stepped up, got shocked with the abortion, and now is finding a male figure to figure it out, but is still supporting his pregnant gf, in case she has cravings. His reactions seem pretty normal and at times, thoughtful at the end of the day.

- We agree on the "Men should be equally responsible in preventing pregnancies on their end as they are equally responsible for the outcome of unwanted pregnancies as well." part. I took issue that you called him an adult and her a child in opting out of the birth control in a previous post and that was what I was referring to.

Your reaction to the lil bro's gf caught me the wrong way - it had a tone of "it's the girl's fault". I think the young couple is a great educational moment - they seem to be in college or are in early 20s and to my understanding, Korea has seen a trend in low condom usage and growing STIs incident rates, so it's a relatable, fictional example for young viewers on how to treat teen and unexpected sex and pregnancy.

-your point about not needing to experience pregnancy to know you don't want pregnancy is very valid. I 1000% agree. But what I said is also true. Intellectualizing or imagining something is not the same as living it. Both can be true and should be applied according to the right situational severity and context. In this instance, what I'm referring to are the lines and scenes right before the kiss scene, from the pop up customer interactions, to the indecision scene with the sex toy, and lastly, when she's contemplating the wedding invitation scene. She's attracted to him; given her customer interactions, she's been convinced that there is value in experiencing (even though she also recognizes that she doesn't want to use sex toys), but at the end of the day, it's her choice to play this out. She doesn't HAVE to do it, but there might be value. There might be not, but she's choosing to do it. And I think that's what this drama is about - choice. (and different views).

- I agree with you partially that it would be great if the characters modify (rather than drop) their beliefs and come up with new beliefs that they build together; and in my opinion, we're on the precipice of doing that. YS is on her conscious path of doing this. I don't think she's lost her belief system... she still has slight feelings for him, but I think perhaps the drama hasn't properly convinced us she likes Dal and so,maybe there's a slight disconnect there. Dal is unconsciously evolving his thoughts on love.

-.....I can't tell if you don't like that YS gave up on her worldview. It's understandable to be upset with that. Ideally, we would want values to stay consistent and in check, but the other side to that is: 1) being open-minded to learning other perspectives and 2) potentially refining one's own views with nuance are generally good things. Moderation and nuance are key. To that effect, I don't see YS jumping ship and committing to casual sex any day soon.

- Your post mentioned: "He has basically said in his discussions with her if you want to be with me, you must forget about the idea of love and marriage." I don't think Dal has ever said that. He's said he doesn't date employees and that dating for him is just sex - that was ep 5. He's said that he thinks love is just hormones to reproduce, but I don't think he bemoans anyone having this belief and I doubt that he doesn't know that his ONSs might fall in love with him or be in love with him. He's just very clear about cutting them off.

"If you want to be with me" can be interpreted as "wanting to be in a relationship" or "wanting to sleep with him", so I'll respond to both. I don't think either one of them wants to be in a relationship right now - they each just want a date, so your "if, then" condition wouldn't apply. As for a ONS, I seriously don't think he would make it a requirement of women to suspend the beliefs of love and marriage. He's just more clear that they shouldn't *expect* love and marriage FROM him.

Absolutely, didn't doubt for a second you were talking about the actors vs the characters.

Oooh, good call out. Yes, although I think it was a bit contrived, so they could have opposing opinions and he was acting out because he was jealous. He won't out her in front the other colleagues but both VP and Dal know YS doesn't use the products, so he pushes the boundary a bit. It's aligned to his passion about his products and while he's generally respectful in values, I still have to remind myself that he can be rude. Not ideal behavior! I probably wouldn't tolerate that shit in real life but cut it some slack since it's fiction. She held her own though and I love how points out the forgotten obvious - he hasn't used the products either!

I think this is so well said. I also partially agree with both @Piquina and @Jenool.

I think Dal is really good at not teasing and putting YS on the spot when they are in the office and she is embarrassed about things that happen in their personal life. She'll mistakenly thinks he's talking about their personal life, goes on a rant, and then he just stoically absorbs it without comment and moves on to the professional aspect to their relationship. He never intended on teasing her, but also accepts her take and takes cues from her on how to move forward. Ignore the kiss? Ok. Wanna kiss? Alrighty. He's just really respectful!

It's actually really refreshing to see a ML not bully or "tease" (but really it's full on bully..). a FL about her attraction and emotions.

But he's human nonetheless, so on the occasion when he gets jealous, piqued, and petty (and usually out of the office and with the VP in sight), he speaks in veiled comments and thankfully (blessedly!), YS usually has her bearings and can give it back as good as she gets it. She doesn't back down and I LOVE her, her wit, and her composure in those moments! Not everyone can recover that quickly and certainly not a ton of FLs can deliver with the same calm.

I'm a little bummed that people aren't seeming all the good of Dal! Yeah, the one night stands and how he's kinda rude to blind dates and girls he sleeps with isn't great, so that's a minus.. that behavior shouldn't be glossed over, but he's largely respectful to women! I think YS couldn't have chosen a safer or better first sexual partner, because through various convos and interactions, it's clear that Dal would never pressure a woman to do anything she wouldn't want to do with words or physical violence, he cares about safe sex and so will 1) wear a condom and 2) disclose any STDs.

YS's ex and SML are the traditional "nice guys", but ex proved himself to not be a nice guy and honestly, in real life, I wouldn't know how SML would react if YS was to reject him. He's a nice guy, but would he retaliate - with her reputation, etc? You never know. In real life, any woman would be a bit cautious in dealing with him. But with Dal? His stances have been vehemently clear - safe sex, no violence against women, etc.

But I agree that I don't see YS's emotional attraction to him being very strong. I think after ep 4 - she was curious about what new lives she could live if she dated Dal but her attraction is largely physical. They need more time to build this up - how do we only have 4 episodes? she needs more time! They banter and rapport very well. In contrast, she does a lot of awkward laughing with SML and I cringe every time she laughs to be like "yeah, about that..."

Dal is attracted to her on multiple fronts... his type has been clear - creative (horizon), loving, and assertive. generally? check, check, check. YS? not so clear... there's an intellectual attraction. and like @Jenool said, both are hardworking and honest... They each can dish out what they give and it's not just enemies to lovers, being able to match your energy with your partner is so attractive and important.

then again, (...just musing...), do we need to find a reason why we like someone? It's certainly more compelling for a drama. Maybe we just find them endearing (thinking of the staircase scene). Mm. we need more time for YS's feelings, we can't have YS following motherly instincts to comfort him or something... please no!!

(Sidebar, it speaks well to the actors that we are rooting for the characters and not the actors. They can manufacture the chemistry pretty well without it seeming fake)

Just to preface, I think we have very differing options on how we see multiple issues and just realized we were talking about something different in a separate thread too... I think of this as a fun, friendly discussion, so no hard feelings. I'll push back on things I feel more strongly about and think might be food for thought, but on others, I don't think I'm gonna convince you otherwise, so I won't dabble on that. Onwards...!
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From my perspective, how you're phrasing your thoughts about lil bro's gf seems to put her in a bad light. I think your leap that she wanted assurance she wanted him to take care of her is a big stretch and a bit of a projection of your own reading into it. She could've just been trying to do the right thing - which is telling the guy a baby was made since they share the baby, but ultimately the choice is hers to make since it's her body. I don't think we will agree on this, but from my perspective, it seems like you're shaming her a lot and I don't think that's fair. If both are consenting, then both should be responsible for birth control.

Taking the words from your post, I can't believe that people would label one an adult and another a child when both opted out of birth control? Why does the girl have MORE responsibility? That's wild to me. I think she should be more aware and protective, but just because it's not the guy's body doesn't mean he lacks responsibility during the act and certainly post?! As Dal said, the guy's role is above all, respect.

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It's disappointing you would downgrade the drama if Dal and YS had physical intimacy. Wouldn't that be sex-negative? The drama is trying to support different world views: that we attach meaning or no meaning on an individual basis - everything is as deep as we make of it. YS (used to) think sex was a very deep issue. Dal takes it more lightly. I would say Dal's views on sex aren't wrong, they are just sex positive. So would having sex mean that drama is trash? I think that's an unfair assessment and frankly, quite judgmental on anyone with a sex life.

Dal does have feelings, but all of this is just life and the whole point of YS pursuing this. She's trying to figure it out by experimenting and living through it. I think it's rather important that they go thru the experience and then figure it out from there. Intellectualizing experiences is not the same as living through it.

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The Joseon stuff... I don't follow your logic and don't agree with it. I think that's a lot of extrapolating, so I'll agree to disagree. Just different viewpoints.

I get it, but tht has a twinge of "eh, no self control" that is a bit...

I'd like to think they are both intelligent enough to pause and know the ramifications of their actions. Per my earlier comment, it makes total sense that they tried a date in YS's world view and now they are trying a date from Dal's world view. And I think a distinction needs to be made; I don't think FL believes in sex-before-marriage completely. It was "marriage to confirm love" turned "feelings before sex", and now she's at the juncture of - "let's explore this. I'm interested in him, but let's figure out what I like and if I like him ... with sex".

I kinda like that they are meeting each other in different ways to their worldviews. Dal definitely is aware he's attracted, but he isn't completely aware that it's more than physical attraction. So he got a little dessert for her (a bid/date of his own fashion! which I thought was a better parallel than the SML's fish pastry.) and she's engaging all the physical intimacy post first kiss.

She's definitely evolving... not keen on the idea of her needing to convince him of romantic love. If they are the mature characters they are being depicted... Dal needs to have his own growth and realize his emotions on his own. Then...it might be a bit more contrived, but he needs to convince her that it's love and not lust on his part. Or they don't have this conflict at all and resume to date with her style and his style. Marriage might be a different conflict. I still think all parties need to be convinced that Dal's in love. As the audience, I think we can see Dal's growing awareness of his feelings and the devastation he felt at end of ep 5, which was soooo juicy, but idk if YS's even at the same level. It feels like she's feeling lust more than love at this point.

Oh no, we are not going to shame the girl here. Both were consenting and both are in charge of protection. If they forgot in the heat of the moment or opted out, those are both possibilities. Sometimes pregnancies happen: no method is 100% effective outside of abstinence.

The girl absolutely has the right to choose for her body and her life. She's the one who has to deal with the most changes and repercussions. I dont care if they are teens, elderly, married or not, the girl has the choice.

Also if Dal sorts out his feelings before sleeping with YS, that's acting according to YS's worldview, not his. I'd rather take him for his word... his version of a date is sex. They did her version of a date, now they are trying his. I don't think YS is in love with Dal either. She just likes him and is curious about figuring out what she likes and her feelings. Convincing each other that it's feelings and not lust is gonna be the hurdle.

His replies to the family scene were largely all lies minus the comment that he is the CEO of a sex toy company. He's the opposite of perfect for her family. He might be perfect for her...

Also as the FL said, she wants to date him to see what new paths she can find herself. Relationships are about finding the right person for you...and you shouldn't have to be perfect before entering into one... just open-minded to communicate with each other, rather than assume and then assume without listening. Perfect on paper doesn't mean much in practice.