drama_addict_123

Whoa - strongly disagree on multiple fronts - where are you getting the evidence for the first two paragraphs? Where was it said that DD's dad wanted to legitimize offspring and was marrying to do so? DD's dad was womanizing, but DD definitely had some trauma with a bad divorce involving his parents and a revolving door of new potential/actual stepmoms who ignored him. The man rarely had home cooked food and his reaction to YS's mom giving him food was telling (plus the bonus scene).

I don't think YS ever said that she didn't want to reproduce either. She just doesn't think sex should come without feelings.

I strongly disagree with your interpretation of the Joseon code, but that might be better reviewed thru women studies. One interpretation of the past *across* societies is that men treated women as property and objects, rather than giving them bodily and financial autonomy. They wanted to possess them and virginity had a perverse premium that is still perpetuated today, alongside with a fixation on body count for some men. Older women might have perpetuated the ideas of chastity and financially, wives, mothers, sisters, and daughters were dependent on their male family members. On the point of chastity blaming, case in point with the Hwanhyangnyeo post Imjin war and the comfort women post WW2.

Marriage was a financial transaction and regardless of economic class, a negotiation, merger and acquisition within families; not to ensure legitimacy for offspring. If you want to go that route, you're likely speaking of Victorian era-esque male family members demanding marriages to protect women's "virtues" if "defiled". Women have had to protect their bodies within and outside of marriage - then and now. Marriage allowed for some protection for their children, but likely, more for sons rather than daughters. A good fictional depiction of how there weren't always financial protections for legitimate daughters is the drama "Against the Current".

Agree with @Claire_zzzz that it's not new. If anything, recent media has been more tame than movies from the past. A classic horror movie that was more suggestive in tone is the 1960s version of "The Housemaid" - highly recommended if you want to try a study on East Asian horror and how they compare to say jhorror.

"Scandal" is an old classic adapted many times: the original is "Les Liaisons dangereuses" (Dangerous Liaisons), a French novel from the 18th century, considered to be an important part of French literature. Korea had a previous adaptation. The US had teen cult classic: 1999's Cruel Intentions, featuring Reese Witherspoon, Ryan Phillippe and Sarah Michelle Gellar. I wouldn't be surprised if there were a ton of other adaptions. To be fair, it's not my cup of tea, so if I know if it's an adaptation, I tend to avoid it, but to be clear, it's not a new concept.

Audiences might be a little frustrated with too many superhero movies, or adaptations of mangas etc, but it's a tale as old as time.

Not directed to you, but to anyone who might be scrolling: if you think current media is scandalous, you should try to read some Greek and Roman myths. Zeus had quite a sex life and caused Hera quite a bit of heartache. And sorry to break it to some of the innocents here, but Disney fairytales were cautionary tales for women. Not romances originally.

well, well, well. who's vulgar now? lols. @hyun, ignore this ignorant hater. there should be no reason for anyone to spew this much hate.

👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 perfectly well said and great call out. I loved how he kept reframing his ask until she got it. and what a great ask - how many people are willing to this for you to break free the shackles you unconsciously adopted from people around you? (he had a minor agenda for his part with his dad, but I was glad to see he didn't take advantage of her)

Mm, very fair point! Neither one has to bend their beliefs then: she could have sex before marriage as long as love was a condition; and he could change his mind that love exists...

While being more sex-positive is a different world view people can adopt, I appreciate the drama showing that women and men aren't equal in privilege when it comes to body autonomy.

The ex *might* have known but definitely wanted to take advantage of her inexperience for his own benefit. Agreed with your assessment of both male characters and I generally think Dal would be a green flag who knew how condoms work even outside of his job.

I would argue that given his personality, Dal wouldn't be so clinically uncompromising and not treat a one-night stand as no consequence (some might, but I doubt he would). He's quite empathetic and responsible. If a former one night stand was to come back to him with an unwanted pregnancy, I suspect he would support her decision whether that would be going with her to a clinic or supporting the child, but if marriage or love was asked of him, that's a different story.

Dal going about his day after a one night stand made complete sense, no? Both signed up for a social contract and the contract was complete.

Sidebar: one interpretation of him deleting his one-night stands' msgs is that he is not interested in anything more than a one night. This is the more likely scenario. The other more delulu romantic possibility is that he stopped having one-nights after YS came into his life, since he was surprised by her from day 1 and also distracted after their kiss. It's likely delulu, but it's a fun delulu haha

I think ML has been very obviously into her from day 1. He's just not aware of it. I would also argue that dates are just intentional time spent with one another with a bit of a built romantic atmosphere. These two keep spending time with each other and they end up challenging each other and being romantic. They are more communicative than some couples who just visit cafes and do dates without tough conversations.

Dal even explicitly asks: were we in a romantic atmosphere just now? knowing taht the vibes were romantic and she was just trying to comfort him. He was teasing her a bit (but yes, the answer was yes, Dal.)

another positive way to see it is greater acceptance for queer couples in society. 10 years ago, portrayal of gay couples was scandalous - "coffee prince" made Hallyu waves and that was still a heterosexual couple with a sexual orientation struggle plot. I, for one, am happy to see mainstream media treating a potentially gay couple as ordinary and a FL lead who wants to support a gay couple, encourages them to come out, and recognizes that the queer community still has a lot of struggles. We've come a long way.

There are plenty of communities esp in Asia where you have gen z/millennials, who say they are tolerant and progressive, but have never met an out of the closet gay and are understandably ignorant but not malicious.

Well said. I appreciated that he was uncomfortable on her behalf and didn't out her in front of her coworkers for being unfamiliar with the products. He respected her argument that she is part of the target demographic to expand their business and that's why she's the best fit as a marketer. It was a brilliant argument. So far, Yeon-su's rebellious reactions are the plot twists for me and I love it. I'm so used to media these days making the obvious reaction the plot, that I get surprised by some creative but very obvious arguments.

Her sexual preferences should be revealed or not on her own prerogative and so far, she's chosen to not share that she isn't sexually adventurous, while still sharing her views on sex. I think there's also hidden subtext that some sex-positive communities are also judgmental if they find out that someone is a virgin.

I paused while watching the episode and thought for a second if Dal went overboard during the argument. I don't think he did anything wrong. If anything, he could've been less emotionally charged in sharing his perspective, but he was warranted in being upset that she was veering into judgmental territory. In truth, he wasn't really insulting her, just challenging her beliefs. It was touch and go for a moment there, and could've gone in a very different way after he said "no wonder you can't reach your horizon", but he followed up with: hey, you're being judgmental and selfish in only seeing what is "love" according to your terms when you're technically in a relationship. You're allowed your views just as much as other people have their own preferences.

He had been tolerant of her up to this point as long as she didn't veer into sex-negative territory, but the moment she did, he berated her.

What I REALLY liked about that scene was how they were going to close it. The power dynamic shifted. Yes, they were client/consultant, boss/employee, but when he challenged her beliefs, there was judgment on both sides. There was no way for her to get in his car, she needed time to process (yay, no bad awkward drama trope where they are stuck in the car and also yay, for rational human comms to ask for space!). There was no way he would actively leave her alone in a place where there was no taxis (yay for no shitty CEO. very good parallel to the shitty ex). When she walked away, he respected it for a second, before finding an alternative to make sure she got home safe.

BTW, if you didn't know, there are easter eggs post credits - love this new way to get people to stay past credits.

In my opinion, it gets better in ep 3 and 4. I took a break early into ep 2. But consider a different genre...maybe you're in the mood for something different and more thrilling than a romcom? Agreed with lilili, it's definitely the standard romcom, but still enjoyable. I've been wishing for a good romcom and the last few haven't been for me recently.

right? 1) she looks so young, I assumed FL and aunt were sisters. 2) I was shocked I hadn't seen her in things prior and I hope this is a launch pad for her.

But also the best friend? thought she was so fun in "cinderella 2am" but she looks completely different!

Alsoooo Paul blanco!

yay! well explained!

I shared this with someone else in a different comment, but felt it necessary to write this to combat all the negativity that has been flooding this platform.

Someone in the earlier comments bummed me out saying that the drama was some "patriarchal 'she's the exception' brainwashing fantasy BS".

To that I say, "hey, some of us want a little of the fantasy. We don't think guys like him exist out there, so yeah, we watch the drama. Life is really hard enough without your negativity. Also... is any fiction anything but a fantasy? Do you seriously think zombies, haunted "East Palace" is real? Or do you think Jane Eyre, the Great Gatsby, Dracula, Frankenstein, or the Pearl, Wednesday, Alice in Wonderland, any of the biographical takes - "The Crown", anything but fantasy? Stories are meant to explore imagination, start discussion, and share the author's message.

If you don't like it, write your own story."

To those who think it's too PSA-y, a responsible story should have a few PSAs to educate ppl on safe behavior. Also, shaming people who are more sexually conservative in their preference is neither tolerant nor higher brow behavior. It's no better that the sex-negative commenters on this page.

Spoilers (stop reading if you're not caught up to ep 4!)

I want Yeon-su to hold onto her beliefs! I'm hoping for a plot twist, but I suspect what's gonna happen is that she's gonna fall so in love, that she's willing to be physically intimate with Dal and try to seduce him, whereas the faux prickly, marriage traumatized CEO is gonna fall so in love that he will want to get married and maybe suggest sex after marriage to prove that he does believe in love... NOW. Either way, it will be cute. haha. I hope she doesn't go thru with hurting his feelings by saying "no, no, you don't have to marry, we can have sex", but can you tell I watch a lot of dramas? The drama is being very overt and telling the audience already that she, doesn't believe in sex to prove love; he, doesn't believe in love. It was being explicitly said, yet people are missing the point.

I noticed that there's been a shift in themes. Before, the narrative was "if you love me, you'll marry me" (and that still perpetuates in every day society in some countries), but now the dialogue is "does sex have to mean love? and if it doesn't mean love, why isn't that acceptable?" And I kinda love that. It's very relevant to the times where many women are opting out of marriage and recognizing it might be more detrimental to them. Yet, some want to experience love, physical intimacy etc.

I 1000% agree. Dal was falling for Yeon Su way faster than she was. He literally did the "uh, did she just turn me down?" on the first date and with the samgyetang invite later on... When she shared that she was trying to use sex to prove her love to her ex, he went "eh, they exist? she believes in love and in using sex to prove her love?" (not new, but for someone who doesn't believe in marriage and by extension, love anymore, and is used to a ton of one night stands who likely come on to him because of his looks (hence the ignoring on the first date), it might be like looking at an exotic animal.)

He's interested, a pookie, a gentleman, and a romantic at heart as much as he tries to lock those urges inside of him and rationalize (or beat the belief into oblivion) that love is just hormones for reproduction. Even his VP recognizes it. He makes sure she gets home safe, asks her what she wants to do when he stopped her ex, asks for consent, freaks out a bit when she starts crying after their second kiss ("did he not get consent?!!").

someone in the earlier comments bummed me out saying that the drama was some "patriarchal 'she's the exception' brainwashing fantasy BS". To that I say, "hey, some of us want a little of the fantasy. We don't think guys like him exist out there, so yeah, we watch the kdrama. Also... is any fiction anything but a fantasy? Do you seriously think zombies, haunted "East Palace" is real? Or do you think Jane Eyre, the Great Gatsby, Dracula, Frankenstein, or the Pearl, anything but fantasy? Stories are meant to explore imagination, start discussion, and share the author's message. If you don't like it, write your own story.

Well said~ I love this comment! Finally, someone who agrees that the drama isn't necessarily pushing everyone to more physically intimate and adventurous, but rather to pass less judgment on different worldviews!

I don't see Yeon-su as sex-negative at all: she just has her own preference designed by her own background and she's learning about a different world. Dal doesn't judge her for her preferences either, but he can and will get upset if she passes judgment on others too early or unfairly. He also doesn't tolerate any sex-negativity!

understood! Geniunely curious, what would you rather her background be? Might be a fun exercise!

Going the easy route with her upbringing might be the most effective, since it's likely relatable in many East Asian households. The scene where she first got her period and her mom's reaction was very relatable. Sometimes, as a stylistic choice, it might be more easy to make it relatable to attain better reach. As I mentioned in a different comment, I think a good responsible drama should do a few PSAs to make sure we don't make light of this topic when some people aren't educated and don't have the resources (or courage) to do their own research.

what would you rather see in the plot instead? that might be a fun exercise!

FL grew up in a certain way. A more tolerant mindset might be acknowledging that people like her exist in the world and that this drama might be a gateway for them (and teens, since this is essentially rated ok for teenagers) to learn new things (like, what does consent look like? or do condoms _____?) This is a taboo topic for certain communities and frankly, I think a good, *responsible* drama and piece of media should do a few PSAs to cover their bases, rather than go all in on just making light of it all.

ML is more subtle with his micro expressions and I kinda love it. Part of watching tv for me is seeing if I can read a bit more into their expressions. Obviously, we don't want them to be deadpan, but too overt is more for theater, rather than the small screen.

As the drama said, maybe you're in the mood for something a bit exciting (rather than something tame) - hope you find something. How about "East Palace"? That was a fun drama (albeit, plenty of people were dissatisfied, but I was pretty happy about it. :) )

I kinda love that we show heterosexual men acting like golden retrievers, and that that's ok! I kinda wish we could show that gay men aren't just effeminate and stop playing that stereotype; that we have very masculine gays too! But that's ok, that's why we have "Love in the Big City" (the movie)!

I loved how ML immediately was like - "what did that ****** say? that's not consideration. he's not a good man to be around." Walking green flag calling out the red flag.

I hope he understands just how conflicted (and maybe attracted she was), for kissing who she thought was a gay man. Ngl, that POV would've been so fun. It's clear he's not judging her for being flustered or attracted to him. If anything, the second kiss made it clear that he's declaring his stance that he's attracted too (in contrast, he could've shamed her or done all sorts of nonsense, but he's matching her direct energy).

He's also the fucking sweetest. He got puked on, but made sure she was safe with the police (rather than some drama trope of taking her to his/her house). Later, highlighting how other CEOs tend to leave first, he made sure all of his employees went home safely before he left the team dinner. He got upset with her in ep 3, but still made she got home. (Btw, I don't think he was insulting her per se, just pushing back in an emotionally charged way. He could've done that in a more clinically calm way, but as a CEO, he's been more than forgiving than most. Given his personality to not tolerate sex-negative talk (investors scene), he's been more than understanding (albeit, I don't think she's sex-negative, just has different preferences). Checking in on what she wanted after he stopped her ex from hitting her? (chef's kiss!) His little panic when she was crying after their second kiss? He's a pookie. Love him.