Exciting, I have a different perception of the situation. I think what you describe could be Min Jun's perception.From…
I just checked out Top Form and moved it to my "currently watching" list. I'll dive in tonight. I hope it's good. I enjoy getting lost in a nice binge-watch.
Exciting, I have a different perception of the situation. I think what you describe could be Min Jun's perception.From…
I am enjoying our discussion too.
I'm not disagreeing that the second versions of events we are seeing are NOT what really happened, but if the first version is MJ's, doesn't it follow that the second version is JH's? If the second versions are what "really" happened, then the writers/director have taken sides in equating JH's perceptions with "reality."
I will take a look at Top Form. I do not outright refuse to watch ANY Thai shows, it's just that so many have been distasteful and badly done over the last three years that I found it not worth my time to check each one out, especially since 429 Thai BLs come off their assembly line every week.
Two days ago I watched a wonderful new Thai film on Netflix, called "Let's Make Millions Before Grandma Dies." It stars Billkin, of ITSAY and IPYTM fame and he is great in the part. Nice to see him further growing in his career. But he is far from the only good thing about the movie. I highly recommend the film.
Exciting, I have a different perception of the situation. I think what you describe could be Min Jun's perception.From…
Exactly...what?
"They both liked the other. They were both crazy nervous and both ended up hurt but we're expecting one person to somehow overcome that fear and hurt to ensure theyre doing and saying the perfect thing when they just want to make sure the other person is okay."
Seriously? You see JH and MH on the same psychological/emotional plain? If so, there's not any point in our engaging further because a major premise of the story is different for each of us.
I'm not "expecting" JH to do or say or be anything other than what I see on the screen. You're defensiveness regarding the character is telling. I don't "like" one more than the other, but I see and hear what I see and hear. Of course, perhaps, as in the series, our perceptions of so different as to render this discussion pointless.
I'll repeat from my last reply: "I think you're going out of your way to rationalize JH's behavior. I think you like his character better than MJ, and thus are making excuses for him. I could be wrong, of course."
Maybe it's as simple as you finding JH more attractive than MJ. That often skews our perspective. I'll repeat another thing: I am not making excuses for MJ's behaviors. He is extremely insecure and that is exhausting for an intimate partner to deal with. And yet, we have JH pursuing him over and over and over. How many times has MJ had his say and walked away? And how many times has JH pursued him and re-engaged?
This discussion has me leaning toward the theory that JH is an emotional sadist who enjoys playing games with someone like MJ as his Pawn. There are a lot of people like that around.
Exciting, I have a different perception of the situation. I think what you describe could be Min Jun's perception.From…
"They were never going to stand together in the wedding photos because of this.'
lol Sure, if you say so.
I think you're going out of your way to rationalize JH's behavior. I think you like his character better than MJ, and thus are making excuses for him. I could be wrong, of course.
HBO's hugely popular and successful series "White Lotus," recently featured an incestuous make-out scene between two BROTHERS. A new and popular feature film out of Hollywood, which is a sequel to another hugely successful film, "Another Simple Favor," features an extended sex scene between two-thirds of a set of triplet SISTERS.
Seems like someone not only DARED to make an incest movie, but at least two someones DID make an incest movie.
Seems it IS possible now, despite the tiny but loud-mouthed Neo-Puritans on the Internet.
how the hell do I find you under every controversial thing on MDL. I wanna meet you in real life lol
No, not that kind of writer. I mostly write public relations and marketing materials as a freelancer: press releases, articles, speeches, annual reports, etc. I write poetry now and then for my own sake. I have sold a lot of artwork, though.
Do you think that such a thing has never occurred in the history of the world or what?It is far more common than…
Not that I owe your tiny mind an explanation, but I ran into a discussion of Old Boy on another forum and came back here to re-read the synopsis/comments as I considered giving it another try. I saw your sad comment and replied. What are YOU doing here, answering replies to your comments 5 MONTHS AFTER the fact? Are you bored with life? What's your excuse?
Do you think that such a thing has never occurred in the history of the world or what?It is far more common than…
You are tragically naive. Who said it happens "often?" This film is about the people it is about and what happened to THEM, not anyone else. If films presented only events as approved by prudes and scolds like you, they would all be boring.
You're also attempting misdirection and outright lying. The MC was not hypnotized and had no idea who this young woman was when they first became involved. They later hypnosis thing is one of those wild, improbable, but fascinating things we see all the time in all kinds of movies. The fact that this one tickles your naughty parts is no one's problem but yours.
"Triggered," one of the lamest Internet insults, meant to imply my argument comes from a place of irrational hysteria. Cuts no ice with me, psycho.
Exciting, I have a different perception of the situation. I think what you describe could be Min Jun's perception.From…
Very well said and written. I appreciate you so clearly laying out your perspective. I will try to be brief in responding, as my intent is not to change your mind but to further clarify my own take.
But yes, we have different takes on what went down here in episode 5. I made it clear above that I am well aware of MJ's insecurities, and that it is not JH's job in life to protect him from awkward but common situations. No healthy relationship would survive that.
In comparing the wedding photo situation, and their wedding attendance as a whole however, I feel strongly that JH's behavior was lax. As I said, what he did in leaving MJ to fend for himself in the photo situation is plain rude and inattentive to one's companion, whether they be male or female. The group was mostly made up of JH's friends, especially his male friends, and it was his etiquette-based responsibility to include MJ. Don't forget MJ wasn't going to attend; it was JH who insisted he join him, making it a kind of date. Therefore, in my eyes, it was on JH to treat MJ well.
Surely, you'd agree that it would have been odd and pushy for MJ to follow JH into the middle of the group of JH's male friends, elbowing people aside to aggressively insert himself next to JH. Again, the name and gender of his date is beside the point. I'm talking about being kind, courteous, and attentive to someone HE insisted accompany him. Alternatively, JH could have waved off his friends and stayed with MJ on the edge of the photo; nothing wrong with that either.
When they were in the hallway with JH's friends after the ceremony, it would have been obnoxious to the max for MJ, after again being introduced as a friend, to boldly and obnoxiously say "Well, actually, JH is being less than truthful here; the fact is we are big, fat, gay lovers, so deal with THAT." :D How would that have gone over after JH just deliberately implied the opposite, that they were only friends?
The bit with JH's father all of a sudden being inserted as the stereotypical BL Chaebol, Nazi dad, was so poorly done that I don't take it into consideration. When I first saw them standing stiffly six feet apart in the hallway, not saying a word as they awaited MJ's entrance into the scene, I laughed. The neck scarf was a hilarious touch.
I don't want to come off as if I like MJ better or dislike JH, and that's the reason for my position on this. That's not the case. I find MJ's insecurity exhausting. I find JH's push-pulling obnoxious. Thing is, I am not sure how much of that is intended to be a result of who these characters are, and how much of it is bad/lazy writing. I like a lot of the issues being presented in this plot, but I think they are beyond the capabilities of the writers and director to effectively handle.
Over and over, when we see flashbacks of a common experience but from the two character's differing viewpoints, both dialogue and even physical positioning have been changed. At the diner a few episodes back, were JH and his friend outside leaning against the glass with the friend's arm around JH, leaning in and chatting intimately, or were they ten feet away from the window, chatting in profile to the window? It can't have been both.
Likewise, in the early scene where JH left the bedroom after sex and took the phone call from his friend at the bar, his dialogue with the friend was ENTIRELY different from what we heard the first time around. So is MJ misinterpreting/misunderstanding, or is he hallucinating? If it's the latter, he needs to be institutionalized before he harms himself.
If the writers/director INTEND these major changes, not only in perspectives on events, but in the events themselves, then I don't see the point of comparing them at all. The major differences in their views of the diner thing are extreme to the point that one of them is delusional, not merely interpreting a common experience differently, and it's likely MJ, but they're not going there with the story.
The memory differences thing is fascinating, because it's true and happens all the time. We think we share memories of shared events, but the fact is, they are significantly different from one participant to another. After all, we inhabit different bodies, which if nothing else, means our eyes and ears receive information about the event that is skewed from what is received by someone else right next to us. Add to that the fact that we come to each experience with entirely different life histories and attitudes, and it would almost be strange if we remembered things exactly the same as everyone else.
OK, I said I'd be brief, so it's obvious I accidentally lied. In summary, I feel the issues of memory and perspective being addressed here are beyond the capabilities of the writers and director.
Ahh this movie was going so good then the plot twist.. ehhh what the f. Who comes up with that??
Do you think that such a thing has never occurred in the history of the world or what? It is far more common than you think. Plus, the characters don't KNOW until near the end...so what's your problem, exactly? Go watch Disney.
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1 
I'm not disagreeing that the second versions of events we are seeing are NOT what really happened, but if the first version is MJ's, doesn't it follow that the second version is JH's? If the second versions are what "really" happened, then the writers/director have taken sides in equating JH's perceptions with "reality."
I will take a look at Top Form. I do not outright refuse to watch ANY Thai shows, it's just that so many have been distasteful and badly done over the last three years that I found it not worth my time to check each one out, especially since 429 Thai BLs come off their assembly line every week.
Two days ago I watched a wonderful new Thai film on Netflix, called "Let's Make Millions Before Grandma Dies." It stars Billkin, of ITSAY and IPYTM fame and he is great in the part. Nice to see him further growing in his career. But he is far from the only good thing about the movie. I highly recommend the film.
"They both liked the other. They were both crazy nervous and both ended up hurt but we're expecting one person to somehow overcome that fear and hurt to ensure theyre doing and saying the perfect thing when they just want to make sure the other person is okay."
Seriously? You see JH and MH on the same psychological/emotional plain? If so, there's not any point in our engaging further because a major premise of the story is different for each of us.
I'm not "expecting" JH to do or say or be anything other than what I see on the screen. You're defensiveness regarding the character is telling. I don't "like" one more than the other, but I see and hear what I see and hear. Of course, perhaps, as in the series, our perceptions of so different as to render this discussion pointless.
I'll repeat from my last reply:
"I think you're going out of your way to rationalize JH's behavior. I think you like his character better than MJ, and thus are making excuses for him. I could be wrong, of course."
Maybe it's as simple as you finding JH more attractive than MJ. That often skews our perspective. I'll repeat another thing: I am not making excuses for MJ's behaviors. He is extremely insecure and that is exhausting for an intimate partner to deal with. And yet, we have JH pursuing him over and over and over. How many times has MJ had his say and walked away? And how many times has JH pursued him and re-engaged?
This discussion has me leaning toward the theory that JH is an emotional sadist who enjoys playing games with someone like MJ as his Pawn. There are a lot of people like that around.
lol Sure, if you say so.
I think you're going out of your way to rationalize JH's behavior. I think you like his character better than MJ, and thus are making excuses for him. I could be wrong, of course.
HBO's hugely popular and successful series "White Lotus," recently featured an incestuous make-out scene between two BROTHERS.
A new and popular feature film out of Hollywood, which is a sequel to another hugely successful film, "Another Simple Favor," features an extended sex scene between two-thirds of a set of triplet SISTERS.
Seems like someone not only DARED to make an incest movie, but at least two someones DID make an incest movie.
Seems it IS possible now, despite the tiny but loud-mouthed Neo-Puritans on the Internet.
You're also attempting misdirection and outright lying. The MC was not hypnotized and had no idea who this young woman was when they first became involved. They later hypnosis thing is one of those wild, improbable, but fascinating things we see all the time in all kinds of movies. The fact that this one tickles your naughty parts is no one's problem but yours.
"Triggered," one of the lamest Internet insults, meant to imply my argument comes from a place of irrational hysteria. Cuts no ice with me, psycho.
Why are you so freaked out?
But yes, we have different takes on what went down here in episode 5. I made it clear above that I am well aware of MJ's insecurities, and that it is not JH's job in life to protect him from awkward but common situations. No healthy relationship would survive that.
In comparing the wedding photo situation, and their wedding attendance as a whole however, I feel strongly that JH's behavior was lax. As I said, what he did in leaving MJ to fend for himself in the photo situation is plain rude and inattentive to one's companion, whether they be male or female. The group was mostly made up of JH's friends, especially his male friends, and it was his etiquette-based responsibility to include MJ. Don't forget MJ wasn't going to attend; it was JH who insisted he join him, making it a kind of date. Therefore, in my eyes, it was on JH to treat MJ well.
Surely, you'd agree that it would have been odd and pushy for MJ to follow JH into the middle of the group of JH's male friends, elbowing people aside to aggressively insert himself next to JH. Again, the name and gender of his date is beside the point. I'm talking about being kind, courteous, and attentive to someone HE insisted accompany him. Alternatively, JH could have waved off his friends and stayed with MJ on the edge of the photo; nothing wrong with that either.
When they were in the hallway with JH's friends after the ceremony, it would have been obnoxious to the max for MJ, after again being introduced as a friend, to boldly and obnoxiously say "Well, actually, JH is being less than truthful here; the fact is we are big, fat, gay lovers, so deal with THAT." :D How would that have gone over after JH just deliberately implied the opposite, that they were only friends?
The bit with JH's father all of a sudden being inserted as the stereotypical BL Chaebol, Nazi dad, was so poorly done that I don't take it into consideration. When I first saw them standing stiffly six feet apart in the hallway, not saying a word as they awaited MJ's entrance into the scene, I laughed. The neck scarf was a hilarious touch.
I don't want to come off as if I like MJ better or dislike JH, and that's the reason for my position on this. That's not the case. I find MJ's insecurity exhausting. I find JH's push-pulling obnoxious. Thing is, I am not sure how much of that is intended to be a result of who these characters are, and how much of it is bad/lazy writing. I like a lot of the issues being presented in this plot, but I think they are beyond the capabilities of the writers and director to effectively handle.
Over and over, when we see flashbacks of a common experience but from the two character's differing viewpoints, both dialogue and even physical positioning have been changed. At the diner a few episodes back, were JH and his friend outside leaning against the glass with the friend's arm around JH, leaning in and chatting intimately, or were they ten feet away from the window, chatting in profile to the window? It can't have been both.
Likewise, in the early scene where JH left the bedroom after sex and took the phone call from his friend at the bar, his dialogue with the friend was ENTIRELY different from what we heard the first time around. So is MJ misinterpreting/misunderstanding, or is he hallucinating? If it's the latter, he needs to be institutionalized before he harms himself.
If the writers/director INTEND these major changes, not only in perspectives on events, but in the events themselves, then I don't see the point of comparing them at all. The major differences in their views of the diner thing are extreme to the point that one of them is delusional, not merely interpreting a common experience differently, and it's likely MJ, but they're not going there with the story.
The memory differences thing is fascinating, because it's true and happens all the time. We think we share memories of shared events, but the fact is, they are significantly different from one participant to another. After all, we inhabit different bodies, which if nothing else, means our eyes and ears receive information about the event that is skewed from what is received by someone else right next to us. Add to that the fact that we come to each experience with entirely different life histories and attitudes, and it would almost be strange if we remembered things exactly the same as everyone else.
OK, I said I'd be brief, so it's obvious I accidentally lied. In summary, I feel the issues of memory and perspective being addressed here are beyond the capabilities of the writers and director.
It is far more common than you think.
Plus, the characters don't KNOW until near the end...so what's your problem, exactly?
Go watch Disney.