etoks21

lol

Best lips: Plump and juicy.

Yeah, I didn't really use the term "gay-washing" as I meant it to mean, so I edited the reply above.

Are you fairly new to BL? I only watched SOTUS and its sequel because I stumbled across BL about three years ago, it was all brand new to me, and I didn't know one BL from another. I had no idea what I was getting into; I don't even remember how I found SOTUS, but it was still considered a good one then or something. But there have been SO many, much better BLs made since then that if I found BL now I wouldn't bother with that shit. If your'e interested, there's a top 30 fave BLs list on my custom lists page.

Actually, I said jooha has the best lips in this show, not in the world; that would be Jonghae in "Semantic Error." :) But yeah, I do think Jooha has the best lips in this particular show.

Yeah, the "kisses" in this show are almost as bad as the really bad ones in very early Thai BLs like SOTUS and SOTUS S where they'd lean heads toward each other and the camera would swirl wildly in an attempt to disguise the fact their mouths were nowhere near each other. lol

Only, here they're using slo-mo and gauzy filters and umbrellas to obscure and block the view. It's beyond absurd.

The color of your skin is irrelevant to this discussion or my use of the "back of the bus" comparison, but nice try.

Hmmm...could you quote me where I told anyone "what type of art they can or can't be drawn to?" I'll wait while you look for that. You go ahead and watch whatever you want. No one's stopping you, so quit pretending anyone's even trying. Or are your feelings so delicate that my opinions on Chinese gay-bait garbage will intimidate you into not watching?

Please also quote me where I said anything about urging gay people to march in front of China's government buildings... you're flailing around, trying to misdirect the conversation. I promise you it's not working.

You go ahead and lower your standards for Chinese gay bait shows and watch to your heart's content. That will liberate Chinese gay folks in no time. Your suggestion that China's creatives will all be out of work if gay-bait dramas don't get made is absurd. There is plenty of motion picture and television work in China that doesn't produce shows that deliberately erase gay people from their own stories.

Furthermore, Chinese people who want to see gay content have no choice, but what's YOUR excuse? Why are YOU watching censored shit? It makes no sense. Do you feel that adding your one set of eyes to the audience for The Untamed (which is extremely tamed) will tip the scales and ensure ever-more open and gayer content in China? lol You have a savior complex. No one there cares if you watch or not.

The fact that you refer to Chinese Gay Bait as "queer art" shows how low your standards have sunk for gay-themed art in general. There IS no gay art publicly made in China. You insist on seeing what's not there; the Chinese Emperor's New, Big, Gay Clothes. He's stark naked.

The old "oh golly, you don't respect other opinions, I have a right to opinions, no one can criticize my opinions, blah blah blah" thing. There's a lot of that on MDL from people who can't back up their opinions with valid arguments. I respect your right to HAVE an opinion but I don't have to respect the opinions you have.

And oh by the way, YOU are "disrespecting" my opinions and perspectives because you disagree with me. Thus, I will be reporting you to MDL admins.

I'm willing to be wrong, but I don't think I am: Please send links to vids of all those hot gay kisses in "Stay With Me." lol I'm pretty sure I would have noticed those. Note: Kisses that are vaguely implied, but not shown don't count.

Lots of people, gay and straight, lack self-respect, but this show does seem to have a lot of that.

I was kidding about the brother, BUT...some of the things Tae Yi has said sound more about romantic love than brotherly affection. Plus, the way his brother's face morphed into the face of his new, little crush...I mean, come on...that's kind of...creepy in an incest-ish way. Actually, it would liven things up if it went that way but a show that won't even show two guys in a real kiss is unlikely to feature incest as a plot element.

Well, then!

End of 4:

This got much more interesting upon discovering that Tae Yi was in love with his blood brother, and even more and more interesting when Blue Hair was revealed to be in love with the evil Joo Ha, who DOES have the best lips in this show, so I don't blame him.

That poor girl with the ears.

I wish they'd have cast someone as Se Heon who has a little meat on his bones. Making the bottom always frail and wispy is yet another cliche of which this show is fond. SH does stand up for himself, at least. Otherwise, this would be giving Secret Crush On You vibes, with SH as just another helpless bottom. Speaking of which, that's TWO major slip/fall/catches in four episodes, between the same characters. Lame.

I'm liking the twistedness of Blue Hair's crush on JH, who is such a mean douche and likes to slug him around. Master/Slave relationship by episode 6?

Why is "straight-washing" any less offensive than washing the gay out of a show and making it a bromance instead?

MAY BE authoritarian and homophobic? wtf?

It's 2024. Why do you want to watch "semi-queer coded material" out of anywhere, when you can watch thousands of movies and dramas that are full-on gay af from all over the world?

I'm not too worried about "punishing" anyone with my little personal boycott of Chinese, gay-bait trash that insults my existence. There are millions of Chinese people and others like you, assuming you're not Chinese, who will watch regardless of what I do.

I don't care if you think it's unfair of me to say, but shows like "Stay With Me," which I watched all the way through in hopes of something that wasn't there, ARE for homophobes and gay people whose lack of self-respect makes them OK with watching material that finds their existence too repugnant to be fully depicted on screen.

It gets to a point with stuff like SWM that I ask myself "Why am I putting up with this? Would I watch a show about straight people that treats straight romance and sex in the same manner?" Hell the fuck no, I wouldn't, and you wouldn't either. So why do you tolerate it when it applies to gay romance?

It's like Black people in the American South, who used to be made to sit in the back of the bus until finally, one very brave lady said "Hell to the NO" to that shit and refused to move. Then ALL Black people boycotted public transportation until the rule was changed.

"Stay With Me" and all shows like it are Gays-to-the-back-seats buses, and I say "Hell to the NO" to that shit. Meanwhile, people like you go ahead and ride, apparently unaware of where you're sitting. At least Black people were VISIBLE in the back seats. Watching Chinese Gay Bait is more like riding in the luggage compartment UNDERNEATH the bus, where no one has to look at you.

Finally, if SWM "resonates" with you like no actual BL does, I'm going to bite my tongue and not say what that says about you.

I'm watching it now because I've watched five eps so I might as well finish it out. It's not well-written. Motivations/dialogue/actions are all murky, indicating one thing one minute, something else the next.

WHAT relationship?! When did they become a freaking couple? All I've seen is verbal sparring above and below and around that question without a firm decision one way or another. Then in episode 5 all of a sudden Akihiro says "I'm his lover." I was like wtf? When? Who? What? How?

It was news to me that they were "together." Since when?

Why? He has a snake-ish affect just below the surface that colors every move he makes and word he speaks. He always seems as if he's maybe so/maybe not sincere, and he seems to LIKE fucking with Akihiro; which means Akihiro's instincts are right.

Even if it turns out Takashi IS sincere, the fact remains he seems to enjoy playing with people even now.

Weird show. Weird episode. And not in a good way.

Akihiro keeps saying shit about "breaking up," when it's not even clear they've been together. Now Takashi decides that yeah, some time apart would be a good idea, just after announcing to his sister that they're "lovers." These are the lamest pair of "lovers" I've seen in a while.

There's a slithery aspect to Takashi's personality that I can't shake. He is not to be trusted. On the other hand, Akihiro is more than a bit of a spaghetti-spine who I have trouble having any respect for. That cheesy red roses and house key schtick at the restaurant, followed by "I don't want this, but oh well, I'll take it anyway because you say so..." Then he shows up at Takashi's door? gag.

Akihiro's going to end up with an STD if he keeps hitting the sack with this slippery dude who's likely banging that ex-secretary and a few other characters we don't even know about. What's strange, and unexplained is WHY he keeps doing it. He doesn't seem to be passionately in love with Takashi; it's more like resignation to being screwed over one more time, if anything.

I realized during episode 5 I'm not rooting for anybody in this story. Takashi's a snake, Akihiro is weak and easily manipulated. I thought the wine guy might be interesting, but he's a classic BL villain. They got rid of the entertainingly bitchy secretary. The sister is a typical Japanese female mouse wearing somebody's stolen drapes sewn onto the arms of a pair of long underwear.

That hideous outfit is going to give me nightmares for weeks to come. The ugliest clothes I've seen on women are in Japanese BLs. Big, bulky, blousy, shapeless, circus-tent stuff that eliminates any hint of a woman's body beneath all the fabric.

Meh...this has had some good elements that kept me watching, but right now it's on the low end of average, about 6.5/10.

I like you, even though I don't like your taste in BLs.

It's not a medical condition. I had those ventricles installed to keep heart-clogging Thai and Pinoy garbage from entering. However, they are customized to admit BLs from Thailand or the Phillippines that receive good reviews and positive word of mouth from people whose opinions I trust. The last one granted entry was "Midnight Chicken."

"Censored BLs," are not BLs. They are wink-and-nod pablum for homophobes and self-hating gay people. If China's authoritarian dictatorship ever dropped its abominable gay ban, I'll be first in line.

A "censored" BL is more insulting and degrading than no BL at all. The message is "you fags are OK as source material for these stories about your twisted relationships, as long as we don't actually have to show anything that explicitly portrays your disgusting romances or revolting sex acts, not even kisses. Oh, and thanks for the $$$$$ we make while exploiting you and giving you the finger at the same time. We appreciate it (though we'd never say so openly)."

The three shows you list above are utter garbage to any self-respecting gay person. Just imagine making the exact same shows with straight characters. Think about how ridiculous that would be. That's how ridiculous "censored" BLs are.

Plus...why on Earth would any gay person or ally support the Chinese industry that makes such dreck or the authoritarian dictatorship that requires that be the case?

Not everyone at LG concerts is gay.

Gay characters can be the center of a story, which they are in BL by definition, without everyone, including the janitor, also being gay.

I don't need or like to be condescended to by gay-unicorn fantasy worlds in gay-themed stories. You do. That's fine.

You know what's "condescending?" The use of the word "we" when you are stating subjective opinions. Or are you pretending to be a Broadway theatre critic?

I rewatch my favorite movies and dramas because there are, if the production is of sufficient quality, always MORE details, angles, and perspectives to be discovered, not because I want to keep having the same experience over and over and over. The best art of any kind allows its audiences to see/hear/watch something NEW every time.

My heart has ventricles that automatically block Thai and Pinoy BLs from entering without heavy vetting. Generally, they are like cholesterol and only plug things up. China hasn't made a BL since "Addicted."

THANK YOU. :)

Yeah, well, no one, least of all me, said this was a "first-world problem, blah blah blah..." Nice try.

If you had any perception skills, you'd know the last thing I am is "outraged" about any of this. My entire comment is tongue-in-cheek.

I also never said anything about "guys getting the girl..." I prefer stories set in reality; you like fairy tales. Got it. You seem capable of responding only to things I never said.

There is NO "normal" in which everyone is gay...anywhere on Earth. It is a fantasy world. Surely even you can acknowledge that.

I am gay, so please take your lecturing BS and insert it properly.

Your last two sentences are everything that is wrong with BL, especially Thai BL. You see it as some kind of childish, pretend, silly genre in which endless, infantilizing repetition of what we've had thrust at us a thousand times before, is acceptable. It is, rather, a potentially powerful genre that when I first discovered it three and a half years ago, rocked my world.

There is no reason on Earth that BL stories need be told in shorthand as if its audience is ten years old on average, and also stupid. I've no idea why you're watching a Korean BL anyway. You are Thai BL's perfect, target audience member.

End of episode 2:

This should have been titled "Vampire Gay High School." There is so much white face powder on these guys that billowing, gossamer clouds are circling my laptop. Also, every guy is, you know...gay. Other things circling my laptop are tropes and cliches. I haven't seen a trip/fall/catch with a double-spin to the floor like that before, though.

The main protagonist seems just as much of a dick as the main bully at this point. His blue-haired bestie, who is either really bad at concealing his gayness or deliberately dropping hints with all his "boyfriend/husband/cute" chattter, must be a masochist to hang around him so much.

Supernatural/clown white/cliches aren't usually my thing, but there's enough potential dark shit beneath the surface here that I'll stick around for another episode or two.

Pretentious, dull waste of my time. Ugh.

4/10