idontwanttothanks

I just kid of figured that they'd go the obvious route. Because Chopper would be - considering his dad pushing him constantly and his painfully obvious, unrequited crush on Ben, I assumed that he would wind up going dark eventually. But I will he so happy to be proven wrong, because he has been so lovely so far and I don't want to lose that.

With the caveat that I have never seen UWMA and so have zero attachment to any of these characters or ideas about their relationship beyond this show, and keeping in mind that I really love a good mess... I liked it. Maybe because I too have been so afraid of losing something that I haven't held on properly.

To me, Win's hesitation makes sense. What is he supposed to say, that no, if Team gets tired of him he can't go, too late, you've bought it now there are no refunds?

Since I'm not taking the previous show into account, the constant one step forward, two back thing seems painfully real for two people who have a hard time communicating and all and also don't communicate the same way. Especially from two people who have so much baggage surrounding love and whether or not they can hold onto it (Win) or deserve it at all (Team). Although I do hope this particular miscommunication gets resolved quickly.

See, I definitely got the feeling that it was just his dad that he didn't want to know. Ben's pretty popular at school, doesn't seem to have any enemies. It probably just didn't occur to him that *Nueng* does, or that anyone would be that vindictive and cruel. I forgive it because he's a teenage boy with a crush and probably isn't thinking that far beyond that.

I totally agree that Nueng wanted to want Ben more than anything. I am very curious to see how he's gonna act with Palm now, because I agree too that Palm, he *does* want. He's already infinitely more flirty with him and finds basically any excuse to get up in his space, but there's also the whole issue of Nueng literally being his boss. Still, I don't want him as passive as he was with Ben.

The outing was extremely cruel, and I do think that it's more an attack on Nueng than Ben for sure. I assumed Chopper because that would be the obvious route, but I never liked it (makes no sense for how he's been acting this entire time) and I'm becoming more and more hopeful that it isn't going to be him. I hope we find out who it was soon though, and that they get some sort of comeuppance.

I mean, sure, but he probably wasn't thinking. I can't really fault him for that, either, because I've seen much older people do similar when they really should know better. Sometimes people just don't consider every possible consequence of their actions. Also to be fair to Ben it was a fairly secluded area and he thought they were alone. Unless they literally go into a closet that's true of pretty much anywhere they could meet.

I am not trying to say Nueng's feelings matter less, here. I'm only saying that I empathize with Ben's situation and I do feel that a lot of people, sympathizing as they do with Nueng, are forgetting that Ben is a whole person too, with flaws and issues and pain of his own. Neither of them exist in a vacuum. Of course we're meant to see things more from Nueng's POV, I think, so that doesn't help. And I did not say that Tanya is nicer so Nueng should take the blame. Nor will I. In my opinion there is no "blame" that should be taken for the kiss itself, and the fact that the principal and Ben's dad clearly disagree grosses me out a little. What I *did* say was that Nueng's far more secure in his mom's love than Ben seems to be with his dad, and he he still wanted to hide his relationship, so I honestly don't get why people can't seem to get why Ben would be eager to keep it hidden as well.

Again, I wish Ben had stood up, but I can also see why he didn't. He'll pay for it in the loss of his relationship with Nueng, because despite Chopper's optimism I highly doubt he'll get another chance. We'll see if he pays for it in other ways.

I'm not excusing Ben's behavior, I just think that some people are being a bit over the top in their criticism of it.

Sure, but possibly not when your father is sitting there browbeating you into it.

The lack of empathy here is kind of stunning.

ETA: Like I didn't even really warm up to Ben until ep 4, but I really felt for him in that scene. It seems fairly clear to me that the last thing that he wants to do is throw Nueng under the bus, and yes, I do agree that the fact that he did that was cowardly, but I can also understand it. I think it's grand that so many people here are so sure they would never, but the reality of his situation and his personality is different. And as for saying that he never should have started something if he couldn't be out...that's bugging me a lot. There are many many reasons for queer people not to be out, and I dislike the idea that that means that relationships should be closed to them. I really don't think either Ben or Nueng expected to be outed like this, and Nueng clearly has an entirely different relationship with his mom than Ben does with his dad and he was *still* hesitant about her finding out.

To be clear I don't think Ben was in the right. But I don't think he's exactly the worst person in this scenario, either.

Perth: Deep down, Chopper is very kind.

Me: So that means he *didn't* out Ben and Nueng, right???

I didn't like it, thought it was inevitable, but more and more I'm thinking that my kneejerk "of course Chopper is the villain of the piece" is wrong, and I couldn't be more pleased about it. (why yes Chopper is my favorite how did you know?)

Does Japan do workshopping for this kind of thing? If not, they should.

My problem is that I don't just find the chemistry uneven - I'm used to that with JBLs, as with most of them I usually feel that the chemistry is uneven - it's that I'm getting equal amounts of negative chemistry. But then I worry I'm not being fair, because this came on the heels of my favorite drama of the year. I just don't know.

YES GOOD. That was my biggest hope.

No, you are not. it's one of my must watches.

I think it's probably Chopper and I really hate it - he was so lovely in episode 4, encouraging Ben even though it was visibly breaking his heart, and he's low key my favorite and while I am not against the idea of him going bad, I am against him doing it this quickly. I hope I'm wrong - I don't actually think that his reaction when Ben said he'd find who it was and make them pay (lol, Ben, I actually kind of like you now but we all know that isn't gonna happen) was all that suspicious. Also the music didn't change, and that's usually the biggest clue, especially since this drama hasn't been subtle so far.

I am clinging onto my denial until the bitter end, is what I'm saying.

Oh trust me, I noticed. I also noticed how floored he looked after - I wish we'd have gotten the aftermath of the Ben kiss for comparison. :D

I'm not saying that the writing of this show is particularly tight or that the plot makes any real sense.

I'm just saying I love it. I do think that the chemistry between Palm and Nueng is very, very good, and I kind of want Ben to start looking at Chopper so I can determine what I think about theirs. I already know Perth can pine like a champ, guys, I want to see what he and Chimon can do together.

As for the kisses, I do think that Nueng is still stiff, but now I believe more than ever that the awkwardness of the kiss with Ben *was* mostly supposed to be down to Nueng not really wanting him so much as he wants to be wanted. Stiff or not, he was definitely pushing into the kiss with Palm where with Ben he looked about half a second away from bolting the entire time. And Palm, my boy, just went straight in and I love that. But now I want a lot of conflicted feelings - Palm because he thinks he is just a getting over Ben replacement and Nueng because he thinks that Palm is just doing his job. What's the point of giving me a bodyguard story if I can't get a little "he doesn't really want me he's just taking the protection thing way too seriously" angst along with it?

ETA I still really hate that it's probably going to be Chopper that did the thing, but I will still love him because Perth. But ugh.

He tried keeping silent and his dad kept going (also there was something about the way he clapped his hand on Ben's shoulder that makes me feel like there was an implied threat there. Could just be me reaching but it did not give me good vibes) - it's pretty clear to me that he feels backed into a wall and he doesn't actually *want* to throw Nueng under the bus - it's cowardly, sure, but I think it's also understandable.

For me this and last episode humanized Ben in a way where I now kind of like him. Still don't like him for *Nueng*, mind, but I like him.

Yep, and he's got a huge, obvious, unrequited crush on Ben.

I did suspect that it was going to be jealousy over Ben that turned him against Nueng, but this is just...well, it's cheap, like I already said. But it's the easiest thing to do so I suspect it's what we're getting.

Chopper is totally gonna be the one who outed Ben and Nueng. Calling it now.

(I think it's cheap but inevitable, would love to be proven wrong)

Ah, I hope so! Thanks for the info, the fact that it's with the same production company as Kabe Koji gives me hope.

Out of curiosity, do we have any information if it's going to follow the second novel, or will it be its own thing?

I think this too. And I think that I will think that Palm accepts the apology too easily, but then I usually do in stuff like this.

No worries! Glad I could be of some help. I really do think it's worth it if you can stand it, but it is extremely well acted and shot, and the chemistry with the two leads makes it hit all the harder. Truly the biggest tragedy is that we got this much chemistry from a tragic ending BL. Why, Japan? Why?

My dramatics aside, when I watched with a friend it did help - I did wind up feeling it very deeply and I haven't been able to watch the whole thing all the way through on my own since the first time, although I've watched the third episode on its own so much that I'm actually grateful Viki doesn't have a counter, lol. Truly a glorious episode.

I will say that it isn't all pain. The ending is very painful, and there is a sort of melancholy that permeates a lot of the drama, but it also has some of the most heartwarming, sweetest scenes.

Anyway, clearly I loved it and could talk about it forever, ha. If you do wind up watching it I hope you come back and report, even if it doesn't wind up being a favorite.

Well, the story is very insular so if you're expecting other people to grieve with Mitsuru, then I have to warn you that's not going to happen. The root of the sadness is Mitsuru's (and Koichi's) loss, after all. But no, at no point does anyone forget him entirely. They do forget the three or four days that he spent as a living corpse, though. The "forgetting" in the summary is more like I said, people stop seeing him and they do forget that he's walking around without a heartbeat. But they still remember he existed. It's not like he's wiped from their memories completely.

I'll be honest with you, every time I see it "pushed", as you say, it's in answer to whether someone should watch it and usually adds in a caveat about pain. I can't be everywhere on the internet of course, but on the same token I don't really think saying people should watch it is being pushy, really. I don't think that most people who say this would be bothered if it's not everyone's cup of tea. I know I'm not!

Personally, no. I do not think that this show is for everyone. I generally avoid stuff like this myself, so no shade if it's something you can't handle, or heck, just don't want to.. The part that got to me was the swipe at people who did like it, because as I said I don't think it's a fair one, so I appreciate the apology. :)