lilili

I think the advice other people are giving you is probably correct and you should skip this. But for another perspective, I know two people who hated Boys Over Flowers with a white hot passion because of how abusive it is and they are enjoying the Thai version. Have all the toxic elements been removed? No, but the drama is doing a great job of contextualizing the toxic behavior and calling it out in within the narrative. It is also grappling with bullying as a social phenomenon (why the school's students are eager to participate in the bullying) and abuse of power among the wealthiest people in the country (there's an incredible 20 minute sequence at a billionaire's funeral that doesn't exist in the other versions). The writing and visual storytelling are complex and not what you'd expect to see in a teen drama. It's definitely flawed but in my opinion well worth watching.

If you do watch, I recommend you skip part one of episode 7, that is the most difficult to watch because of abusive behavior.

This is also a personal aside: women engage with problematic narratives for all kinds of complex reasons and people loving the franchise shouldn't be interpreted as them wanting to be abused or not recognizing abusive relationships in real life. At heart, this story is about women grappling with desiring men in the context of a dangerous patriarchy which is why it still holds power after 30 years.

Girl From Nowhere on Netflix was recommended to me (I haven't seen it but it looks good). One of the writers is also writing for F4 Thailand. https://www.netflix.com/watch/80241859?trackId=14170286

This is an incredible FMV of Thyme and Gorya's relationship that leans hard into how dark it is. I love it. https://twitter.com/EmmaB_Videos/status/1499217144227192832

I thought Nani wasn't getting a song! Excellent news.

Thyme is the black rose (and his mother's name is Roselyn which is fascinating). Kavin is hydrangea. I don't know Ren's flower and I can't ID it based on the episode opening but it's white and sort of looks like a daisy.

"So, to be fair, if you’re expecting a tropey romcom teen drama with a bit of angst, this could all be a bit weird and confusing." <<< YES THIS. But one thing that's been incredibly gratifying is how many people I see who are getting and appreciating the story that's being told. I find it very moving that the storytellers trusted us enough to get it.

Meanwhile the red card keeps showing up over and over again. The invites to the birthday party where his mother announces the engagement are red cards and the red carpet at the billionaire's funeral is a visual red card when Kavin says the game of how the country will be run is changing. It's alllllll about the metaphors and what the red card stands for and why Thyme has to consciously dismantle the harm he caused.

It's great to hear from someone who hasn't seen the previous versions! A few thoughts based on what you wrote:

Gorya's push and pull with Thyme is in line with what you see in other versions. She's reluctant to fully commit even late in the story. I'm not sure how this will play out with F4T and six episodes left but based on previews and previous versions we will get full romantic moments with them. But will they be enough for people? Personally I'm okay with not getting a huge number of sweet moments because I fell like the story is bigger than just the core romance.

This version isn't more violent than other versions. It's just that this version doesn't sugar coat the violence. For example, the F4 entrance is played as glamorous in most versions even with the bullying but Thailand has them walking into the decrepit stadium and Thyme is wearing two animal prints and beating the shit out of Phupha and it all feels way darker and heavier.

Also in other versions you have absolutely brutal scenes with no real fallout and no sense of consequences. In the manga and one other version the ML tries to sexually assault the FL and slaps her hard across the face. But then they have funny and romantic scenes and tonally it's super weird. F4T is the only version where the ML cancels the red cards and renounces violence, also the only version where he apologizes to the Hana character and the FL for being hurt because of his past crimes.

One BIG change is the episode 9 plot with the dead billionaire's funeral. That is wholly new to F4T and one of my favorite parts of the whole series. I don't see a lot of people talking about it because it's not romantic or even angsty in the traditional way you'd see in a melodrama. But it's hugely important to the story that the writers and director are telling in this version.

At the end of ep 8 Gorya fearlessly confronted Thyme's mother and brought the cookies to the party. At that point she was ready to commit. But then Lita literally knocked her over and then the billionaire died and Gorya realized that Thyme's mother wasn't the big problem, the enormous, overwhelming problem was the entire 1% universe that Thyme and the F4 inhabit. She can fight a person but how can she grapple with a system of incomprehensible wealth and power?

Also Thyme was paternalistic toward her, told her to trust him but never tried to explain what was happening and what he was doing to keep them together. Kavin and Ren spent more time trying to explain things to Gorya than Thyme did. If he'd invited her to try to solve the problems together she probably wouldn't have broken things off the way she did. Thyme can't sideline Gorya, he has to treat her as an equal partner. That's one of the lessons he needs to learn. The big lesson Gorya needs to learn is to fully own her strength and power. They both still have a lot of growing up to do.

The entire funeral scene in ep 9 set up Gorya's withdrawal. She was getting much closer to Thyme before that and they probably would've made it official until she saw the world he inhabited and was very understandably overwhelmed and intimidated, esp. because Lita was right there as a perfectly acceptable and easier choice for Thyme. Fighting a mean mommy is one thing. Entering into an entire universe of extreme power and not having any standing to understand it or navigate it is a whole other thing and that's when she broke it off.

Watching it week to week has been an incredible experience and I'm glad I didn't wait. The conversations and insights are mind blowing and it's because the production is so rich, detailed and carefully thought out that there are a million things to dive into with each episode. We recorded our podcast after ep 9 and one of my podcast partners initially thought we wouldn't have enough to talk about halfway through and lololol we ended up with a two hour episode.

The mid season trailer shows Thyme looking blank and confused and Gorya on top of him screaming in his face so yeah pretty sure we're getting it.

There's no kiss between Ren and Gorya and she was thinking about Thyme when they had the almost kiss so yeah I think F4T has drawn the line much more clearly than other versions. Like you may prefer Ren as a viewer but the production is signaling like crazy that Ren is not the one.

Yes, it's a big agency and they also produce all of the TV shows for their parent company, GMM Grammy. That's why you keep seeing the same actors in shows on certain stations.

This is such an astute comment, especially about us caring about Gorya and not caring about Phupha. And I completely forgot about Kavin's words, WOW you just blew my mind.

And your point about the red card escalations is one I made on Twitter. It keeps coming around and Thyme trying to seal the door (literally!) on the cards and violence isn't enough. He hasn't finished the work.

ETA: First Thyme cancels the red card for Gorya only because he's in love with her. That's easy. Then he apologizes to Hana for the harm he did to her and bleeds in order to stop her from harming herself, and even apologizes to Gorya because his bad past behavior boomeranged on her but that's not enough. Next he tries to seal the door to the stadium and cancel all red cards but that's not enough either, he does it for Gorya and the F4 but it's not adequate, the monster he created with his actions can't be caged that way. Now we get the final attempt to repair the harm and move forward. Next week is going to be freakin' brutal.

FYI I shared your comment on Twitter and the responses have been super interesting: https://twitter.com/daebakpodcast1/status/1497937152612524032

Forgot to mention that I cried during the birthday countdown (the only time I've cried through the whole series). It was such a pure and intensely emotional scene and it's also one of the favorite scenes of the director (the other one is the storeroom scene! He loves the romantic moments as well)

They are for sure end game but wooooo you blew my mind with that observation about the red card. Because the red card represents Thyme's toxic abuse of power and until he truly grapples with that Gorya will be in danger. He can't protect her from the threat, he needs to confront what he's created and dismantle it.

This version has been very careful to not give you second lead syndrome which is no doubt why they played Ren's rescue scene that way.

The other scene that was incredibly romantic was when Thyme rescues Gorya after Hana reinstates the red card and then they spend the night in the storage room. The star lights on the ceiling and when he grabs her face, gah.