lulupony

It's pretty good, but as it's a serious family drama, it may not be as watchable for an international audience unfamiliar with this genre. I'd say it's much closer to his previous drama The Bond, but not as angsty. Another popular drama with similar vibes would be Answer Me 1998 without the suspense-building love triangle, as ALWH is much more family-oriented, and romance is just a natural part of the story, not taking the main stage. For example, characters go from first crush, to dating, to marriage in like 3 episodes.

It's not everyone's cup of tea, but I've been really enjoying it.

It's a family drama set in the late 90's. I think it's on WeTV, and it's also on Youtube, but I'm not sure if the quality of the subs are any good. The 1st ep is mostly set-up, with only a small part feat ZWY, just as a heads up. The show does get a lot better with each episode.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uZaGpQFXFs&t=332s

Are you referring to CangXuan-Xiaoyao, or Tushan Jing-Xiaoyao?

For members of the ZWY voice club, here is a voice over monologue from his newest drama that aired yesterday, A Long Way Home. He's appreciating the love his adaptive parents gave, after his own dad died and his mom left him.

https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1NN411q7zz/?spm_id_from=333.337.search-card.all.click&vd_source=26f4dd6e54b2ae3af2820d653c98954d

LOL! I don't think this is a happy ride for any ship, even for the endgame. One can tell from even in this comments section, how much TSJ fans need to defend this character and the ship.

Tonghua has intentionally written all of the characters and love lines to maximize angst, and not happiness in mind. 🤣

hahaha. I wonder if we can open up an actor/actress-focused discussion thread. It'd be a good repository to find additional resources (like performances/other shows/variety show cuts) later on, which are all great resources to get ZWY voice fixes. ;)

They are not related by blood in anyway, not that that makes the marriage any better in CX's mind.

Cang Xuan is not happy about it either. It's very much a political marriage from his end, out of necessity.

Time to start an actual discussion thread! =D

hahaha. I get what you're saying. I tend to stay away from angsty romance dramas, esp harem/reverse harems, and only joined the ride for LYF due to the amazing cast. Tonghua does have a way with creating memorable lines and characters though, I'll give her that.

I will say that CX's acting portrayal is way better than the book CX. I'm just a bit peeved at the show basically removing most of his political line. He was also jealous over XY a lot earlier than I thought he'd be, as he was already drinking his sorrows away in Haoling. The director's camera work choices also did the actor no favor, as he has so many micro expressions that'd be better captured through close up shots rather than long shots.

XY's acting portrayal basically made the character alive in the show. The biggest peeve I have is the over-focus on the romance line, as I find his backstory and his role as a general interesting, if not more so. I felt the show could have done a better job portraying and exploring his motivations and his loyalty.

hahahaha. I love your last sentence. I feel like we can go at this all day long with walls of text, given how thoughtful this discussion has been. LYF is definitely not my genre of choice, as I tend to like historical shows, hence my focus (and eye-rolling) on the political power play here.

You have a fair point to say judge the character based on what is in the show, vs. the hypothetical. I will say, however, that the novel Jing actually felt smarter to me than the drama Jing, as an overall impression, and I think that contrast is mostly due to the acting, since the drama Jing is written with more details on his intelligence than the novel Jing. That probably also played a part in all the criticisms of Jing's been getting from the shipping wars.

I have my peeves about how CX and XL are written/portrayed in the show as well, so I think we can both agree to this, "it's all Tonghua's fault 🤣"

Yea, most Yaoxuan shippers don't necessarily want them together, per say, but just revel in the rich dynamics of their relationship. There is very few pairing like theirs in the drama world.

Oh, and also to see CX's emotional torture through Zhang Wanyi's brilliant performances. 🤣

First, thank you for the thoughtful discussion. I have learned a lot from your comments, as I didn't know about the Benjamin Franklin effect. That's super interesting, and I ended up spending like ~30 min reading about it 😂

Given how strong both of our opinions are, I want to first say that the writing on political scheming in LYF is a joke. Our entire discussion is founded on an author who built her characters and plot almost entirely to serve the romance. CX was originally Zhuan Xu in the novel, who's a real historical figure and one of the founding fathers of the Chinese civilization, so Tonghua already did CX no favors by cutting down the actual merits of this character to legitimize the romantic line. The show was even worse than the novel, as CX's entire political line was reduced to several conversations on a plastic mound with poorly curated CGI.

1. The lineage hierarchy is much more important in C-culture than you've given it credit for. I'm assuming you've probably watched Scarlet Heart, given its place in C-drama. Despite being the most charismatic and having the most supporters in court, the 8th prince's main challenge was his birth right, in that his mother was a low-ranked consort. In contrast, while the 4th prince was unpopular and had few loyal followers, he had a huge advantage from his lineage, being born from one of the highest ranked consorts. As the one heir from the Empress lineage, the Crown Prince basically screwed himself over, and even then, the Emperor incredibly tolerated most of his shenanigans.

You're right in that historically, there are plenty of examples of successors who're not from the Empress line. However, it's important to point out that in almost all of these examples, these men succeeded only after incessantly and ruthlessly cutting down on the legitimate heir to the throne.

2. Even if CSFL backed out during the assassination attempt, CX would've probably offered him another opportunity given his importance in the central plains. Hence why I say that TSJ was indeed important, but he's not a make-it-or-break-it factor in CX's political success, as with more time, CX would've likely found another way, albeit a more difficult and time-consuming one.

TBH, the drama CSFL is denser than the novel CSFL, likely to elevate the role of TSJ. At the same time, the drama spends almost no time portraying the political smarts of CX, all the while adding scenes of TSJ in the political power play that was not in the novel. My suspicion is that Tonghua likely had similar inclination as you, with the reason primarily to legitimize TSJ's merits and worth as the endgame, given all the criticisms towards this character from the past decade. I personally just don't find these changes in the show convincing, both in the writing and in the acting, as they only served to superficially make TSJ more appealing, but did not organically enrich the characters themselves and the story. In fact, by portraying TSJ to be so astute in the political line, it made his failure in sorting out his domestic affairs all the more striking and disjointed.

Finally, my initial reaction was to the comment that CX wouldn't get anywhere without Jing BTS, which is basically attributing CX's political success entirely to Jing. When I say that Jing played 5 to 10%, I don't mean that the other 90% was entirely due to CX himself, but that other characters (like CSFL and other supporters) played a bigger role. CX's own merits as a leader were integral to knitting these players cohesively and effectively, and his sacrifices in making all the political marriages were also integral to his rise to power being largely bloodless.

TSJ, even as portrayed in the drama, is nowhere near the level of importance as other similar relationships, such as Mei Changsu in the rise of Prince Jing in Nirvana in Fire. Only in the latter case can I whole-heartedly support the statement that "this person wouldn't get anywhere without the other person."

is it confirmed that LYF will be on Netflix? That would be quite exciting as I've been meh about Netflix's current selection of Chinese shows.

First, thank you for your thoughtful comment. I do appreciate a rational discussion even if we disagree.

1. About the Xiyan lineage, there is something very important in Chinese ancient culture, and that is 嫡 vs 庶, the former being the descendants of the wife (the Empress in this case), and the latter being the descendants of consorts. Direct descendants through the Empress (嫡) line always have higher legitimacy than through consorts, and that is why the uncles considered CX such a threat. He is the only male heir through the Empress line. The uncles had more power through the political connections they've built over the years, but not through the lineage legitimacy.
2. Regarding the assassination attempt, the novel explained in more detail than show, and actually showcased it as a brilliant example of CX's political strategy. He purposely made himself vulnerable in that situation and gave ChiShui the opportunity to help him, and consequently an early seat in his power circle. Even if Chishui Xian didn't show up, he still has bodyguards in place for the worst case scenario (the show also mentioned this). This is a classic case of 帝王之术, or the psychology in the making of an emperor, as voluntary help would mean conviction and committed loyalty from an ally, vs if he directly asked Chishui for help in this scenario. CX also hit 2 birds with one stone here, as while he's gained Chishui's alliance, he's also gained the Emperor's sympathy and a private army.
3. While Jing had a key part in convincing CSFL, it was FL's own political ambition that was the determining factor, as he was sick of the way the old geezers in his clan played safe by staying away from politics. Jing knew his friend and pointed this out to FL, but it was FL's own ambition to make a name for himself that enabled him to take on all the risks associated with supporting CX at that early stage.

I wouldn't render Jing's contribution to just "introduction", but 50% would be definitely a gross exaggeration in my book, with 5 to 10% more reasonable at most (but still crucial, like a catalyzing agent). Even in the most classic examples of 君臣之谊 (emperor-minister relationship) in Chinese history like Zhuge Liang-Liu Bei or Weiqing-Hanwudi, the relationship is a reciprocal one, where they mutually enabled each other's success. Thus, to elevate Jing's role in CX's political success to a level of superiority where it almost seems like CX owes Jing his throne would in fact be quite insulting, not just to CX, but to all the other allies and important players in that journey.

Right, even if we as the audience don't agree with the character's choices, that's actually what makes the journey interesting, as I really see them as their own person, rather than as an extension of myself.

I will say that I support XY in whoever she wants to be. If she wants to be starry-eyed, then so be it. She's had such a tough life as is, that she deserves to have some naïveté and schoolgirl dreams in her life. I do love that XY was written with so much agency, in that she's the one who chose Jing, b/c Jing had qualities that she'd most value in a romantic partner. The relationship only worked b/c she wanted and worked hard to make it work, not necessarily b/c Jing deserved her love and affection (imo, he really didn't, but I'm not XY =/).

Narratively, this stretch of the show as a bit of a drag, but character-wise, I don't consider her choices to be OOC.

No, the money came from Xiyan Emperor. What Jing did was manipulate the pocketbooks so that some of those funds would go directly to CX. They managed for 37 years without Jing, which shouldn't be overlooked.

I think what DramaAjumma and I are are trying to say is that while Jing may have been crucial to make that introduction, especially at that key timing, it was really CX who made his way by being a great and inspiring leader.

With time, even without Jing's introduction, I'm sure that CX would have still made himself a path. It'd just be a windier and more challenging and time consuming path.

The key components for CX's ascension to the throne
1. That he's a direct heir to the Xiyan royal line. He's also the direct descendant of the Xiling clan on his grandmother's side, which is the 2nd most powerful clan after ChiShui, even more so than Tushan. (I want to emphasize the latter, as the Xiling clan would have supported CX given his bloodline, w/ or w/o Jing. Also, if CX didn't make the sacrifices of making those political marriages, he wouldn't have gained the political support from all the clans, even if Jing talked his socks off BTS).
2. In Xiyan, he has loyal supporters of his mother, General Yinglong, as well as networks built by his family
3. He has the visionary leadership for uniting the nations and creating peace. His leadership style is one of kindness, but also decisiveness. This is why he's able to gather so many capable and loyal followers (ex: how he was able to gain Yujiang's loyalty, even though the dude tried to assassinate him so many times)
4. He has the unsaid support from the Xiyan emperor and the Haoling emperor, who's been laying the groundwork for many years.

Without any of the above, even if Jing broke his back trying to usher support CX, nothing would ever happen. Thus, while Jing played an important part, it'd be a gross exaggeration to say that CX wouldn't be anywhere without him.

I frankly find it quite insulting to attribute all of CX's political success to Jing. Saying such is removing the personal agency from all these wonderful characters (not just CX), such as CSFL, Xin Yue, Chi Shuixian, Yujiang, etc. They have chosen to follow and support CX based on their own motivations and experiences, and Jing was only part of that process.

Jing definitely played a part, but it'd be a gross exaggeration to say that without him, CX wouldn't get anywhere.