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I saw it in the drama though. I didn't read the manhwa.

Rape is not sex. The emotional subtext is completely different, so obviously the way it gets shot is also very different. People having a different opinion from yours doesn't mean they're 'defensive' and if you post publicly you should kind of expect that someone will read what you write and reply to it.

It's not a sex scene, it's a rape scene. There isn't a lot of 'getting ready' needed. Also Yok did grab a bottle for what I suppose was prepping, since Ing saw that and said he'd never bottomed before. It was a bit random that Yok took off his shirt and not his pants but in general it didn't feel that unrealistic. It felt rushed and uncomfortable but that was likely on purpose.

I liked the contrast. I loved the fact that the passage from your regular BL, with funny little moments, to dark and toxic was so sudden. It felt more intense and disorienting, that way. But I understand your point and I also think it's part of the reason why so many people were dropping it. For now it's not more extreme than other black flag BLs, but the contrast between initial fluff and heavy trauma is among the most extremes.

It's not always like that in horror, though. Midsommar comes to mind. Pearl comes to mind. The Witch comes to mind. The boundaries between villains and good people are much more blurred and characters that commit horrible crimes aren't punished for their actions, nor considered criminals. The stories are more complex and scarier that way.

We can talk about the issue that BL has with consent, and with that fact that non-con gets widely represented as acceptable behaviour inside a couple dynamic. But for that you don't even have to use toxic dramas (they're actually the ones that sometimes recognise SA as problematic more than the others). In most well known BLs, one character assaults the other and it gets normalised because the other 'likes' it and the perpetrator still gets treated like a good guy. There is a HUGE quantity of forced kisses or touches in this genre. In red/black flag dramas at least the assaulters are considered bad people and the SA is portrayed as traumatic. So we should actually question the whole genre.

The issue here is that SA isn't considered bad enough, and that's a problem society has. I think the real difference with horror is that people know that murder and torture is bad, but they don't always know that SA is damaging (for example when it gets represented by a forced kiss or the victim is showed enjoying it).

If people took SA as seriously as murder and other forms of violence, we'd be more free to separate fiction from reality. There are tons of movies where people kill others and they're still considered good guys. Think of period pieces, of warriors and knights. Murderers are being romanticised there. Because it's fiction. We all know that in real life they would need to go to prison, but since it's fictional we can watch them slay enemies and still root for them. I think that's what happens with red/black flag characters in BLs. People in real life would never want that dynamic, but since it's fictional they can fantasise about it – the intensity, being wanted to the point of harm, these are all satisfying fantasies for some people.

It doesn't mean they want it in real life, just like fantasising about being saved by a knight doesn't mean that in real life you'd want your man to kill others for a living. Do you get what I mean? I don't think the problem with red/black flag dramas is that they represent a different type of reality, I think the problem is with the reality we live in. And that it's okay to have problematic characters on screen as long as we know that what they do is bad.

YES it was the lucidity! The fact he knew that what he was doing was kind of horrible. And still decided to do it. It was a very psychologically rich interpretation, it showed well the mental gymnastics he was doing to justify himself even before crossing the line. You called it a performative dance and it really feels like it, it's almost like he's doing it just to show to himself that he actually hesitated, and that he's taking care of him, so he can't be that bad of a guy, and even what he does later on is framed as acceptable.

I haven't felt this way watching a BL since To My Shore. The dynamic is really captivating. Also, the rape scene was very well made, as weird as it might sound. We are inside the thoughts of a guy who's trying to convince himself he's just helping the other out while actively harming him. I'll just take off his shoes, and so on. It gave me chills. It felt very realistic.

Often SA in BLs is just a way to move the plot forward, the victim is actually okay with it and he just pretends not to for a couple of episodes. But here Yok's situation is represented in a way more nuanced light. He's not okay with it, and he's also attracted to his boss, and one thing doesn't cancel the other out, which is a much better representation of assault and grooming than usual. It's way more disturbing. I also know that Yok is going to become a surprising character and I can't wait for that to happen.

I've finally finished this absolute masterpiece! Unfortunately, the last ten episodes were pretty boring and felt underdeveloped compared to all the crazy and entertaining things that happened at the beginning. It felt as though the director had run out of ideas.

Nevertheless, this drama features some of the most incredible, campy, creative and random scenes that I've ever seen. There are magic mushroom trips, guns, aliens, car chases, gladiator-style fights, tentacles, moments of blatant homoerotic tension between in-laws, journeys back in time, visibly fake props, kinky arrangements, and countless kisses. There is A WHOLE DRAGON. There are also some unexpectedly solid acting moments, so I really can't complain.

Encompassing every possible genre, from sci-fi to romantic comedy to psychological horror to shameless smut, this drama is the very definition of pure entertainment. If you decide to watch it, don't try to make sense of the plot or you'll be swallowed by the giant plot holes. Just turn off your brain and enjoy it <3

does someone know what's the song that comes with some of their kissing scenes? (the train one in ep. 6, the bed scene in ep 9 etc) it's electronic music and there's a voice repeating something like 'shake your body', I can't find it anywhere :(

WHERE ARE MY LESBIANS? :(

Yes this might be why it felt off! Sometimes it feels like he's acting very out of character. But also, it's true that we still don't know him very well. Maybe the last episodes will explain it.

Okay, so, first: it's a good take, it makes a lot of sense and it actually explains the lack of sexual tension. So, I've now changed my mind about that first kiss.

But, still, the show didn't feel shocking to me. That's not the feeling I was trying to convey. It didn't feel 'off' just because the characters are obsessive and irrational, or because the scenes are meant to be uncomfortable.

For reference, one of my favourite BLs is To My Shore, which has plenty of dark, uncomfortable moments and obsessive characters. I've started watching BLs last year and it was during the Chinese renaissance of toxic black flag dramas, so I don't even associate BL with fluff that much.

So, as much as I value your take, I think this 'off' feeling also comes from something other than the discomfort that's being created on purpose. Again, maybe something about the pacing, or the acting, or the dialogues.

Unpopular opinion but I didn't like it. People are praising the chemistry and the acting but to me it felt rushed, with the characters acting in incomprehensible ways just to make the plot advance... also for the NC scenes, they were so random, particularly the first ones. All that intensity with almost no tension leading to the moment, what a strange combination. I'm not sure what felt off, if it was the dialogues, some of the acting, or the plot, but I didn't enjoy this.

Well, it seems like you've misunderstood the purpose of my comment. I'm not 'stirring the shit' just for the love of the game. Yes, is inflammatory, because that's what pushes more people to read it and engage with it. The way you did, for example. Education works best if it's not boring. I believe ragebait can be used for good. Anyways, it's good to take a pause, enjoy your hot guys :)

Girl. Neutral connotation. Did you even read my comment? I have no issues with dubcon and noncon, one of my favourite BLs is To My Shore lol. What weirds me out is when people watch it and they're not able to correctly identify it (or accept they are in fact enjoying it?), which happens especially when the characters aren't outrightly portrayed as negative. That's an issue that goes very well beyond the fictional world. I remember this girl describing a character as a 'good man' just because he was from an older movie that painted him in a positive light, despite having him act in an abusive way. Guess how blind she was to abuse in real life, despite identifying as a feminist. Also, lack of consent isn't only shown in NC scenes, I'm sure you know it's not just a sexual thing.

Oh if you're criticising the shooting I agree with you. Something was off.

I mean it really depends on the story. I've read omegaverse with dry humping in it. The rules change quite a lot depending on the writer.

Please educate yourself on sexual coercion and on consent. Again, you can like the show while recognising its characters aren't great people (and without insulting strangers online). Have a good day.

the concept of being able to enjoy a show without losing all your critical thinking skills must be really foreign to you, I'm sorry about it

praising predatory men for their 'idgaf attitude' is definitely a choice