I'm not sure if any of this is what you're looking for, or whether it fulfils the criteria you have for whump, but continual moments of support after hardship is featured heavily in both of the drama relationships – I can think of a few scenes in particular where the ML appears in times of crisis for the FL to look after her – he sometimes does it with quite the dramatic flair, too.
The second lead relationship I think, has a few more regular scenes that could be considered whump, where the 2ML especially takes care of the 2FL in moments of everyday and mundane, but pretty severe distress and harassment.
Can someone pls pls share if this drama is…1. Happy Ending2. Good Acting3. Good Chemistry (focus main leads,…
As somebody who didn't really like it, I'll try and be honest:
1. Happy Ending – mostly, yes! Even if there were things about it I didn't like, the ending was upbeat and hopeful. 2. Good Acting – some very, very incredible acting talent in this. 3. Good Chemistry – kind of. I think the actors gave everything they could, and I got the "butterflies" sometimes. 4. Good Logic – I feel like it was a major downfall of the drama to me. There were many decisions I thought were questionable – especially when it came to the plot that wasn't in the original Webtoon. It bothered me, personally, but might not be an issue for many. 5. Romance – I personally feel like the idea behind the romance was better than the execution, but I did really, really love the premise – so much that I went on to read and love the Webtoon – and I did really like certain aspects of the story that they added to with this adaptation.
Can someone pls pls share if this drama is…1. Happy Ending2. Good Acting3. Good Chemistry (focus main leads,…
As somebody who didn't really like it, I'll try and be honest:
1. Happy Ending – mostly, yes! Even if there were things about it I didn't like, the ending was upbeat and hopeful. 2. Good Acting – some very, very incredible acting talent in this. 3. Good Chemistry – kind of. I think the actors gave everything they could, and I got the "butterflies" sometimes. 4. Good Logic – I feel like it was a major downfall of the drama to me. There were many decisions I thought were questionable – especially when it came to the plot that wasn't in the original Webtoon. It bothered me, personally, but might not be an issue for many. 5. Romance – I personally feel like the idea behind the romance was better than the execution, but I did really, really love the premise – so much that I went on to read and love the Webtoon – and I did really like certain aspects of the story that they added to with this adaptation.
I've tried to ignore it, and to enjoy the show on my own terms – sharing little things I've been enjoying about a drama I'm loving – but I'm getting annoyed by this comments section, because I feel like a lot of people are confusing "I don't like this", with "this is bad" – as well as "filler episodes" with scenes where the "main plot" isn't progressing, and there are slower and more intimate moments of relationship build-up.
Now, if you want stories where there's very little meat to the bone, and there's the pure structure of a romance or a romantic comedy, or you want romance along with some other form of sub-plot (like stalking, murder, revenge, medical, legal, or fantasy romance), or want one or more of those as the main plot, then that's great! I love those too, and I'm pretty sure I can point you to a few resources for dramas, books or webcomics you might like some more (r/kdramarecommends and r/RomanceBooks are some of my personal go-tos), if I can't recommend some myself.
But the arrogance of people who claim to know the genre well enough to say that it's "bad in its own genre" or that it's a "waste of good actors", as somebody who's been studying the genre for a while, and aspires to write in it, is grating on me.
I think that this drama, so far, has fulfilled a lot of the main structure of a romance story so far: -two people who are well-suited to one another meet -who want to be together -and share moments of growing emotional, and often physical, intimacy -but who struggle against internal and external obstacles -that build up until there's a major complication -which gets resolved happily.
And in my opinion and from my research, doing all of that in a broadly satisfactory way is, ALL a romance needs to be, to fundamentally have the potential to be a "good" romance, and is, I think, the closest you can get to objectivity when it comes to this common genre-specific story structure – everything else that determines whether a romance is good or bad is subjective, and based on personal opinion, interpretation, and the attachment and value you attribute to the story. Even if we're not fully there yet, I think we're well on the way with this drama so far to hitting all of those marks.
I think where a lot of people are getting mixed up is in this part – because, to some, sticking very tightly to a tightly-paced, momentum-filled romance formula is what brings the familiarity, and what makes them form an attachment to the story – but for me (and I'm assuming some others too) I find the scenes other people might consider "filler" or "draggy" to be important for finding the relationship and the chemistry between characters believable, and developing an emotional attachment to the story.
So with this in mind, I feel like there needs to be a lot more weight to the arguments I see than "the couple got together" (not all good romances are slow-burns), "it has nothing to say" (have you been paying enough attention to confidently say that?), "everything is repeating itself" (welcome to establishing a theme, or building a relationship between characters through different intimacy stages), "I'm losing interest" (I'm more interested than ever – neither of us are objectively right in this). None of these are proving to me why it's a bad show, why the writer's being lazy, or how there's no plot. People who are saying these things as if they are the absolute, irrefutable truth is becoming so, so frustrating to me.
Don't talk down to people who are enjoying something you're not, and don't be rude about the creators of something if all that's happening is you're not enjoying what they made enough. Just move on to something you know you'll enjoy better; please spare the rest of us, and spare me from writing another essay on this.
Okay. Rant over. I'm going back to unabashedly loving this drama now. ♡
The names, for one – I've seen around that Gu-Won meabs something close to "salvation", and Sa-Rang means "love";…
I couldn't agree more! I've loved to see the leads actually fall in love in a way I feel like can last between them; not to say I haven't seen as much in other dramas – but I really feel like there's been an especially unusual organic build-up between two individuals who care about and respect each other deeply, and that's been an absolute joy for me to experience.
In terms of it being a pure, classic fluffy rom-com (yet still managing to successfully embed layers of depth and social commentary in there – with themes examining power structures and exploitation in wealth & employment, and the overlap with women's rights and exploitation in the home, and imbalances of power in personal relationships), I think this drama's really been excelling.
I'm smiling and laughing along so much with each episode, and I'm having a really great time. Counting down the days until Saturday.♡♡♡
People are saying this show is "no plot", or "all fluff, no substance", but I'm loving all of the little details…
The names, for one – I've seen around that Gu-Won meabs something close to "salvation", and Sa-Rang means "love"; she notes how he's always there for her in crisis – his love comes to her in forms of salvation; loving her is his form of salvation. Gu Won's mother's name is Mi-So, which means "smile", which I feel like adds another dimension to the motif of smiling already established.
Also, I've seen one person point out the connection Sarang talking about how the large windmills looked like pinwheels as a kid, that could take her to her mother – then her being captivated by the pinwheel while her and Gu-Won were drunk in episode 3.
The themes of relationships in contrast to each other:
-Pyeong-Hwa, who continued to suffer in her professional and personal life at the hands of her ex because of the divorce, who has found a kind and respectful man who's interested in her in Ro-Woon.
-Da-Eul, who should divorce from her toxic, unsupportive husband and the in-laws that treat her as her slave – but is likely held back by her child, and her own professional situation.
-Hwa-Ran, who is trying to avoid divorce to save her professional life being tarnished.
-Gu-Won and Sarang's budding relationship, which has been steadily built up as a relationship predicated on mutual respect and understanding, which is now being put to conflict by the prospect of him being expected to marry into his social class.
Considering the established stakes in the social and professional ramifications for marriage and divorce (both in need of being taken seriously), and his still fledgeling efforts at winning his father over to let him be primary heir, and at being taken seriously – and considering the personal cost of marrying somebody else (both to him, Sa-Rang – and to us!), I think it's going to be interesting to watch this play out.
People are saying this show is "no plot", or "all fluff, no substance", but I'm loving all of the little details that are put into perspective as we go on, and the small details that are adding up – as well as the general pro-worker sentiment – and the themes of respect and care being the foundation of healthy relationships, and of marriage. More details in spoilers below:
Can someone please explain to me why being divorced is stigmatised in Korea to the extent that you can't progress…
I'm not Korean, so I'll provide some quotes & references from some other sources to answer.
"In traditional Confucian philosophy, marriage was seen as a union between families rather than individuals, and divorce was rare and heavily stigmatized as a failure of duty and obligation. Today, many Koreans still view marriage as an important part of their identity and social status, and believe that divorce reflects poorly on both parties."
"Women have it particularly hard — seen as failing not only their partners and children, but also their extended families and reputations. The impenetrable patriarchy hurls most blame on the wife as their domain is the home.
I know of many Asian-Australian women who are emotionally and mentally detached from their husbands but choose not to separate as there is a misguided 'safety net' that comes with having a nuclear family — financial stability, sense of normalcy and not being branded a pariah."
I've written more about this in my full review, but I felt really, really disappointed in this drama; I loved the premise of it to begin with, but as it went on – I feel like it lost momentum, and made a lot of changes from the source material that didn't add anything, and in fact made it unnecessarily muddled in its attempt to be more complex than the Webtoon.
The best parts were (to me) when it gave a lot of depth and meaning to the supporting cast – that bit of added nuance was well-done. The acting too, for the most part, was phenomenal – and I loved the OST. So many stand-out components, but the whole thing just fell apart to me by the end.
too much information for those who haven’t watched yet. Please mark as a spoiler. If I hadn’t seen this yet,…
Genuinely asking – what have I said about the ending in what I wrote, and what details would you omit for a non-watcher? There's nothing I can think of reading back that significantly betrays the storyline or the ending (only my emotional reaction, and some general nuances/interpretations I'd picked up that I think are nonspecific enough to the broader plot that I wouldn't consider them spoilers) – but if there's anything that you spotted and I didn't then I will tag it as a spoiler!
Lee Jin Wook was accused of sexual assault in 2016. But because "lack of consent" in South Korea is "proven" by the rapist using violence and/or intimidation or the victim already being incapacitated. Resistance must be registered "impossible or incredibly difficult", she gave in proof of bruising on her ankle, knee, shoulder, cervical vertebrae, and lower back, but he was cleared of all charges.
The full bench stated, “There is room for suspicion that the two people had consensual sex. However, A not wanting sexual relations is consistent with her testimony and there is probability that sexual relations took place against A’s will.” They continued, “Based on Lee Jin Wook’s testimony, there was no asking of consent for sexual relations nor was consent given by A. In light of this, the indictment and crime cannot be proven.”
He then counter-sued his accuser for making a false accusation. In 2017, his accuser was found not guilty of making a false accusation, but Lee Jin Wook's side appealed the verdict – and she was sentenced to a minimum of eight months in prison for defamation in February 2018.
The court stated: “As Oh has common sense, she likely knew the difference between sexual relations that one secretly does not want to engage in and rape that occurs with oppressive tactics. Therefore, Oh’s accusation against Lee is a false accusation that goes against objective truth.”
As an autistic person, I love this drama to bits. Even the hardships, the bullying, and the misunderstandings (all of which I have experienced myself, to a lesser degree), and the board of directors asking if his autism is "cured" (which may be a mistranslation, or may just be showing the ignorance of the board members—especially considering Si-On is never "cured", and that they address him "getting better" later on as him NOT getting better, but being more comfortable and more familiar with his environment, which I find very accurate to my experience). It's flawed, for sure, and quite dated now in some respects, but I think it will forever be one of my favourites.♡
I'm getting the impression it was a bit of a polarising drama from the comments and reviews left here (and I was halfway expecting it, due to the lack of adherence to the source material, and because some of the story threads ended up perhaps not tied up in a way some would have preferred), but I'm genuinely shocked to see how many people vehemently hated it? It might not rank among my utmost favourites, but I found it dark, twisty, and I loved getting my mind bent out of shape by every turn the plot took.
The cinematography, the writing, the acting, and the set/costume design were all incredibly impressive to me (except some of the dissatisfying ways the drama wrapped up—that still didn't feel necessarily so disappointing to me; some elements felt very, very satisfying and cathartic), and I found it a worthwhile watch, that would rank among some of the better dramas I've seen, still considering myself a pretty picky watcher.
If somebody's coming here to see whether they should watch it, I'd say give it a shot! I enjoyed the journey it took me on.
The second lead relationship I think, has a few more regular scenes that could be considered whump, where the 2ML especially takes care of the 2FL in moments of everyday and mundane, but pretty severe distress and harassment.
1. Happy Ending – mostly, yes! Even if there were things about it I didn't like, the ending was upbeat and hopeful.
2. Good Acting – some very, very incredible acting talent in this.
3. Good Chemistry – kind of. I think the actors gave everything they could, and I got the "butterflies" sometimes.
4. Good Logic – I feel like it was a major downfall of the drama to me. There were many decisions I thought were questionable – especially when it came to the plot that wasn't in the original Webtoon. It bothered me, personally, but might not be an issue for many.
5. Romance – I personally feel like the idea behind the romance was better than the execution, but I did really, really love the premise – so much that I went on to read and love the Webtoon – and I did really like certain aspects of the story that they added to with this adaptation.
I'd recommend giving it a try!
1. Happy Ending – mostly, yes! Even if there were things about it I didn't like, the ending was upbeat and hopeful.
2. Good Acting – some very, very incredible acting talent in this.
3. Good Chemistry – kind of. I think the actors gave everything they could, and I got the "butterflies" sometimes.
4. Good Logic – I feel like it was a major downfall of the drama to me. There were many decisions I thought were questionable – especially when it came to the plot that wasn't in the original Webtoon. It bothered me, personally, but might not be an issue for many.
5. Romance – I personally feel like the idea behind the romance was better than the execution, but I did really, really love the premise – so much that I went on to read and love the Webtoon – and I did really like certain aspects of the story that they added to with this adaptation.
I'd recommend giving it a try!
Now, if you want stories where there's very little meat to the bone, and there's the pure structure of a romance or a romantic comedy, or you want romance along with some other form of sub-plot (like stalking, murder, revenge, medical, legal, or fantasy romance), or want one or more of those as the main plot, then that's great! I love those too, and I'm pretty sure I can point you to a few resources for dramas, books or webcomics you might like some more (r/kdramarecommends and r/RomanceBooks are some of my personal go-tos), if I can't recommend some myself.
But the arrogance of people who claim to know the genre well enough to say that it's "bad in its own genre" or that it's a "waste of good actors", as somebody who's been studying the genre for a while, and aspires to write in it, is grating on me.
I think that this drama, so far, has fulfilled a lot of the main structure of a romance story so far:
-two people who are well-suited to one another meet
-who want to be together
-and share moments of growing emotional, and often physical, intimacy
-but who struggle against internal and external obstacles
-that build up until there's a major complication
-which gets resolved happily.
And in my opinion and from my research, doing all of that in a broadly satisfactory way is, ALL a romance needs to be, to fundamentally have the potential to be a "good" romance, and is, I think, the closest you can get to objectivity when it comes to this common genre-specific story structure – everything else that determines whether a romance is good or bad is subjective, and based on personal opinion, interpretation, and the attachment and value you attribute to the story. Even if we're not fully there yet, I think we're well on the way with this drama so far to hitting all of those marks.
I think where a lot of people are getting mixed up is in this part – because, to some, sticking very tightly to a tightly-paced, momentum-filled romance formula is what brings the familiarity, and what makes them form an attachment to the story – but for me (and I'm assuming some others too) I find the scenes other people might consider "filler" or "draggy" to be important for finding the relationship and the chemistry between characters believable, and developing an emotional attachment to the story.
So with this in mind, I feel like there needs to be a lot more weight to the arguments I see than "the couple got together" (not all good romances are slow-burns), "it has nothing to say" (have you been paying enough attention to confidently say that?), "everything is repeating itself" (welcome to establishing a theme, or building a relationship between characters through different intimacy stages), "I'm losing interest" (I'm more interested than ever – neither of us are objectively right in this). None of these are proving to me why it's a bad show, why the writer's being lazy, or how there's no plot. People who are saying these things as if they are the absolute, irrefutable truth is becoming so, so frustrating to me.
Don't talk down to people who are enjoying something you're not, and don't be rude about the creators of something if all that's happening is you're not enjoying what they made enough. Just move on to something you know you'll enjoy better; please spare the rest of us, and spare me from writing another essay on this.
Okay. Rant over. I'm going back to unabashedly loving this drama now. ♡
I'm smiling and laughing along so much with each episode, and I'm having a really great time. Counting down the days until Saturday.♡♡♡
Also, I've seen one person point out the connection Sarang talking about how the large windmills looked like pinwheels as a kid, that could take her to her mother – then her being captivated by the pinwheel while her and Gu-Won were drunk in episode 3.
The themes of relationships in contrast to each other:
-Pyeong-Hwa, who continued to suffer in her professional and personal life at the hands of her ex because of the divorce, who has found a kind and respectful man who's interested in her in Ro-Woon.
-Da-Eul, who should divorce from her toxic, unsupportive husband and the in-laws that treat her as her slave – but is likely held back by her child, and her own professional situation.
-Hwa-Ran, who is trying to avoid divorce to save her professional life being tarnished.
-Gu-Won and Sarang's budding relationship, which has been steadily built up as a relationship predicated on mutual respect and understanding, which is now being put to conflict by the prospect of him being expected to marry into his social class.
Considering the established stakes in the social and professional ramifications for marriage and divorce (both in need of being taken seriously), and his still fledgeling efforts at winning his father over to let him be primary heir, and at being taken seriously – and considering the personal cost of marrying somebody else (both to him, Sa-Rang – and to us!), I think it's going to be interesting to watch this play out.
"In traditional Confucian philosophy, marriage was seen as a union between families rather than individuals, and divorce was rare and heavily stigmatized as a failure of duty and obligation. Today, many Koreans still view marriage as an important part of their identity and social status, and believe that divorce reflects poorly on both parties."
–'Is divorce a stigma in South Korea?': https://www.namhansouthkorea.com/is-divorce-a-stigma-in-south-korea/
"Women have it particularly hard — seen as failing not only their partners and children, but also their extended families and reputations. The impenetrable patriarchy hurls most blame on the wife as their domain is the home.
I know of many Asian-Australian women who are emotionally and mentally detached from their husbands but choose not to separate as there is a misguided 'safety net' that comes with having a nuclear family — financial stability, sense of normalcy and not being branded a pariah."
– ''Divorce is not good in Korean culture': Why mum and I never talked about dad leaving': https://www.abc.net.au/everyday/when-my-dad-left-one-of-the-hardest-things-was-not-talking-about/100543126
The best parts were (to me) when it gave a lot of depth and meaning to the supporting cast – that bit of added nuance was well-done. The acting too, for the most part, was phenomenal – and I loved the OST. So many stand-out components, but the whole thing just fell apart to me by the end.
Lee Jin Wook was accused of sexual assault in 2016. But because "lack of consent" in South Korea is "proven" by the rapist using violence and/or intimidation or the victim already being incapacitated. Resistance must be registered "impossible or incredibly difficult", she gave in proof of bruising on her ankle, knee, shoulder, cervical vertebrae, and lower back, but he was cleared of all charges.
The full bench stated, “There is room for suspicion that the two people had consensual sex. However, A not wanting sexual relations is consistent with her testimony and there is probability that sexual relations took place against A’s will.” They continued, “Based on Lee Jin Wook’s testimony, there was no asking of consent for sexual relations nor was consent given by A. In light of this, the indictment and crime cannot be proven.”
He then counter-sued his accuser for making a false accusation. In 2017, his accuser was found not guilty of making a false accusation, but Lee Jin Wook's side appealed the verdict – and she was sentenced to a minimum of eight months in prison for defamation in February 2018.
The court stated: “As Oh has common sense, she likely knew the difference between sexual relations that one secretly does not want to engage in and rape that occurs with oppressive tactics. Therefore, Oh’s accusation against Lee is a false accusation that goes against objective truth.”
Sources:
–https://www.soompi.com/article/878513wpp/lee-jin-wook-and-a-call-records-texts-photo-evidenced-released-both-sides-explain
–https://www.soompi.com/article/1121055wpp/woman-accused-lee-jin-wook-sexual-assault-receives-sentence
–https://www.asianjunkie.com/2017/06/16/lee-jin-wook-did-not-ask-for-or-get-consent-of-alleged-sexual-assault-victim-judge-says/
The cinematography, the writing, the acting, and the set/costume design were all incredibly impressive to me (except some of the dissatisfying ways the drama wrapped up—that still didn't feel necessarily so disappointing to me; some elements felt very, very satisfying and cathartic), and I found it a worthwhile watch, that would rank among some of the better dramas I've seen, still considering myself a pretty picky watcher.
If somebody's coming here to see whether they should watch it, I'd say give it a shot! I enjoyed the journey it took me on.