I literally don’t see the spark everyone talks about. Where? Nowhere to be found in my eyes.
That’s totally fine; different strokes for different folks. Like I mentioned in my comment, I saw my no chemistry between Yeon Woo and Yoo Han in s1 due in large part to Yoo Han’s actor, while other people saw a spark. It’s all perspective.
I literally don’t see the spark everyone talks about. Where? Nowhere to be found in my eyes.
Some relationships just don't appeal to some people for one reason another. Some people are attached to Yeon Woo/Yoo Han and oppose any couple that would break that up., so for them Se Hyun never had a chance. Regardless of your reason, it's your prerogative.
I have a lot of mixed thoughts about this season, but for now, I'll just say: Se Hyun/Yeon Woo supremacy!!
On a more serious note (and ignoring the uneven tone, rushed storyline, and general confusing nature of this season), I vastly prefer Se Hyun's character to Yoo Han. Most of that is because of Hyun Jun's stiff, awkward acting in s1. I wasn't attached to his character or his relationship with Yoo Han at all, so it didn't take long for me to warm up to Se Hyun. I also feel a Mono/Mono relationship would be a nice twist on the same old soulmate trope.
I briefly complained about the uneven tone and storyline in this season, but s1 had the same issues—it was just more hyped. As someone who typically loves obsessive relationships, I actually found Yeon Woo & Yoo Han's relationship to be majorly lacking in the chemistry department. Se Hyun and Yeon Woo had a spark that definitely made watching this season worth it.
All that said, I know things will probably go back to business as usual in s3. The original story revolves around Yeon Woo and Yoo Han and people seem to prefer what they had. That's unfortunate imo. How cool would a Mono/Mono relationship be?! But, hey, you gotta stick to the script. Curious to see if Hyun Jun will change his mind and come back or if they'll recast his character.
Overall Color Rush s2 is far from perfect but still a vast improvement on season 1.
great comment! and it doesnt have to be a personal front when people talk about it critically, or angrily, or…
It's been a couple of days since this discussion so I'm a little burned out on it (for reasons you can probably guess lmaooo) but: Thank you! You bring up some wonderful additional points as well. It's always refreshing to see nuance in these kinds of discussions.
I enjoyed both Cherry Magic and Kieta Hatsukoi a lot, but I'm also not usually a fan of saccharine things. I like spice, drama (but not *too* dramatic), and a little Problematique™ content never hurt nobody lmao
Alright, I'm calling it: This is my favorite series of 2021! Bravo to the actors, author, and production team. Big thanks to GagaOOLala for making this available for international fans. I hope the novel can be Licensed in English (Seven Seas, where you at?)
I believe the words we use to describe something are very important, yes, I 100% agree that Hira’s obsession…
You're right, I shouldn't imply it's just kids acting like this. Unfortunately, adults have fallen victim to this mentality as well. And, ~*for some reason*~, their moralizing only extends to queer media, but not heterosexual media. These people are everywhere, but they seem to specifically hang around queer media fandoms. I don't know if you're a fan of Taiwanese BL, but being on MDL while HIStory4: Close to You was airing was a nightmare lmao
Are you in the English-language fandom? Some fans have been leaving suggestions in Seven Seas Entertainment's licensing forms since they also carry light novels. If you have the time, I would definitely suggest filling that out. Hopefully the louder we are the quicker it'll get licensed ★★★
You expressed yourself very well, this is why there aren`t many people commenting on your post and have chosen…
I want to start off by reiterating the distinction between fiction and reality. When I talk about unhealthy behaviors, I am talking about them as they would affect someone in real life. In fiction, these kinds of things don't matter; they're fictional people with fictional lives and interact with one another in fictional ways. I used this example in a reply before, but it's like when a character in a drama is extremely possessive over their partner to the point they try to dictate what they can and can't wear in public. If that were real life, we would consider that to be controlling and toxic behavior. In the controlled world of fiction, it can seem romantic and even sexy for a character to consider their partner "Only mine!"
(I hope that's not a clunky example, but if you're a romance drama fan you've probably seen this exact scenario dozens of times)
So, I just want to make it clear that when I talk about "unhealthy behaviors/relationships" I mean in the context of real life. These behaviors do not affect Hira and Kiyoi the same way because they are not real people. I hate having to do this because, again, this is fiction, but it's necessary to get my point across. I hope I won't have to do this for long.
I've said this before in my replies to Rach loves Xieer (I got the impression you've read my replies to them so I won't regurgitate too much), but communication is not the only problem they have. This is a BL, so the romance is the central point, but their issues rely on their own personal issues that need to be addressed so that they are not relying on their partner for a sense self/well-being.
re: People coming to this page to throw around accusations, I believe. There's a movement in fandoms currently of people ("Antis") who moralize on primarily queer fiction in aggressive, unreasonable ways. In fact, my original message assuring people they didn't need to justify what they like in fiction is that people like that can make others feel backed into a corner.
You said "we recognize their unhealthy habits," and really, this is the only thing I cared about in my original post. If someone is acknowledging the unhealthy aspects of their relationship and not trying to pass off what they see on-screen as a healthy relationship, then they're not the ones I was talking about. Explaining the characters' characterization and why they act the way they do is very different from dismissing the unhealthy aspects of their relationship. My concern was that people would carry their defense of these behaviors into the real world rather than acknowledging that they're problematic and liking them anyway.
I hear that their relationship gets healthier in the novel, but even if it didn't, I would still love it. I enjoy media about unhealthy (non-abusive) relationships, that's why I love MBM so much. Double Mints, HIStory4, even Dangerous Drugs of Sex (though the ending is whaaaack lmao) are some of my favorite watches of 2021. I find, at least for myself, that there's power in enjoying messy queer media unabashedly. It takes the power away from those people who use racist, misogynistic language to shame others for enjoying perfectly good shows like MBM.
I am late to the party, but I do read through pages before posting. I won't @' a specific, but even you admit there are some people that whitewash this relationship. I think my comment has enough likes to say other people have noticed this as well and that it concerned them too.
I would like to read the novels someday, but I try not to read unofficial translations. I've put in requests to English licensors like Seven Seas and Yen Press suggesting they pick up the series, but I hope someone does soon. Hopefully, the buzz surrounding the drama will lead to an official license.
Thank you for taking the time to reply to me! Healthy discourse between fans, even if they don't see eye-to-eye, is great when it's civil. While I don't think we have opposing views on this, you've brought in a new perspective for me.
Sorry but I disagree with you. If showing character flaws and anything that is slightly off to the norms of society…
You can read further up my replies to Rach loves Xieer for more context on the original post, but you raise points that are accusatory and make me scratch my head, so I'm going to try to reply to some of your comments.This breakdown isn't meant to hurt you. Keep in mind, I *really& don't want to get into explaining what constitutes unhealthy behavior on a web page for a fictional show about fictional characters played by actors, but some of your comments warrant it. "If showing character flaws and anything that is slightly off to the norms of society is "toxic" then everyone and their grandmother can be called toxic" There is a lot to unpack here. For one, unhealthy relationships are not born because people are bad people. That is a common misconception. Unhealthy relationships are born out of character flaws—but not all flaws are created equal. If your flaw is that you sometimes forget your partner's birthday, that's one thing. However, if your flaw is that you idolize your partner to the point you view them as a god and you as simply their worshiper, that is not the same thing. One is an annoying flaw. The other is unhealthy behavior. From what I hear, Hira's idolization gets the development treatment in the novels. That should highlight for you why the action is a problem.
"I don't consider the relationship toxic or unhealthy or hurtful to either of the mains. They liked to spend time with each other . Why wouldn't I want to be with someone who makes me happy? F*ck the norms." I'm getting the impression that you're operating under the idea that their relationship can't be unhealthy if they're happy together. That's a very narrow way of viewing it imo. This is (again) a fictional show about a fictional relationship between two fictional men, so their relationship is not going to mimic those we see in the real world (<---the point of my original post). But because their dynamic make them happy does not mean that's a healthy relationship **as we would view it in the real world**. This is why there is a distinction between real life and fiction.
For example, you've seen those characters in dramas who are overly possessive of their partners to the point where they treat to dictate what they can and can't wear in public, right? That is an unhealthy relationship dynamic. BUT, when it's portrayed in series it can seem romantic, even sexy. Rarely do the characters being told "You can't run around like that, you're MINE!" feel unhappy with this possessive behavior. If it were the real world, that would not be considered a normal, healthy relationship. Do you get what I mean?
"I don't see the toxicity whether your sensitive souls want to believe me or not." If you don't see why this would be an unhealthy relationship in real life, that is really, really concerning. No one's object of affection should ever mean more than their own sense of self. Unless it's firmly established beforehand, no one should be with someone who keeps them underfoot even if they're just ~protecting their hearts~. I am going to assume you're an adult, so I'm not going to go on a long lecture about that, but I hope you find this is appealing in fiction but not in reality.
" I know what toxic looks like when I see it." I don't want to insult you, but I'm doubting this. For example, your definition of "toxic" excludes the unhealthy behavior of treating the object of your affection like a god in comparison to you being a lowly worshiper, but includes... my opinion on MBM posted to a drama-watching forum? Because you disagree with my assessment of that relationship, that makes the comment toxic? I've said this before, there are many subject opinions about what makes something toxic—but "That hurt my feelings" isn't one of them. If that is the definition you're operating under, I urge you to reconsider and come back to this with fresh eyes.
"While in reality, Hira and Kiyoi are just flawed characters and what I enjoy and think makes this show a lot "healthy " in comparison to most other shows out there is that this show is not trying to push any of these character flaws under a rug." I'll direct back to my comment ^ about why "flawed" does not mean "can never be unhealthy."
"Kiyoi doesn't like Hira's "obsession"" I'm spoiler-marking this for episode 5 if you haven't seen it yet (I'm assuming you haven't since you said this): Episode 5 established some things for us about Kiyoi: 1) He wants to be worshipped like idols on TV, and 2) That fact that Hira worships him—giving himt he thing he wanted for so long, going back to when he was unloved as a child—is one of core reasons he likes him. The show makes a point to show Hira thinking of himself as a monk worshiping Kyoi, then in episode 5 we get from Kyoi's perspective this wonderful inner monologue: "Are people who believe in religion like this? It reminds me of the crazy fans that I have seen in the past. You can sacrifice yourself for me to this extent..." I haven't read the novels, but from what I've heard recently his attitude changes. Likely, he goes through the natural phase of realizing what he thought he wanted isn't what he actually needs. However, it's just false to say Kyoi doesn't like Hira's obsession when it's laid out in the show.
You said my ("toxic") comment "used false words[...] without any further explanation to try to contextualise the situation" to be odd as it implies I should have known to write out an essay on red flags in their relationship. For one, this post is aimed at watchers
"[...]giving out false information and blaming people who like it for not considering the show toxic " An opinion that contradicts your own—even one that makes you feel sad about something you like—is not false information. I'm sorry if this seems rude, but based on what I've outlined above, I don't think you're the kind of person I can have an open conversation with. I hope I'm wrong, but if you reply with arguments similar to the one you already provided then I'm not going to engage furthear. It's MBM day, bro, I don't have time for bad vibes lmao
I believe the words we use to describe something are very important, yes, I 100% agree that Hira’s obsession…
I understand what you mean about misinformation being annoying. There's a rising trend in fandoms now where people exaggerate elements and use that to demean other people. It's exhausting and doesn't help anyone, just leaves a lot of shame and bad feelings. Those people usually aren't old enough or mature enough to be consuming this media anyway. Don't worry, I didn't think you were talking about me when you mentioned that since you brought up the context of it spreading to TikTok. (:
I really hope the novel gets licensed in English because I would love to read it. I don't read scans so it's been torture knowing the show is going to end soon lol. Barring anything wild happening in the finale, MBM is definitely going to end up on my favorites of 2021. I'm happy to hear their relationship is stabilizing in the new volumes, but what we've seen in the drama makes me happy, too.
I believe the words we use to describe something are very important, yes, I 100% agree that Hira’s obsession…
There are a lot of subjective opinions about what constitutes a toxic relationship, but, as you pointed out, the most common note is that it's damaging to your wellbeing. But "damaging to your wellbeing" doesn't mean it's another person hurting you; it can be that the person you are with brings out the worst in you. That's how I'm using "toxicity" and "unhealthy" here. (Since it came up: I do have a degree in Psychology. That doesn't make me an expert of course, but I want to emphasize that fandom runs on colloquialisms, not on specifics. ).
I can go further into that if you like, but semantics isn't what I was talking about in my original message: Unhealthy relationships are bad (in real life) and should not be justified. Hira and Kiyoi's issues go far beyond communication issues. They both have their hang-ups, and though being with one another makes them feel good, that doesn't mean it's healthy. That unhealthiness is a feature of their relationship, not a bug. The whitewashing I'm seeing is troubling.
But, as I mentioned, liking their relationship isn't bad and doesn't reflect on you as a person. How you treat real people should be the only mark of your character. It's more important that you're able to identify problematic elements than it is to have a Watchlist that's only full of Wholesome Content™. I hope that makes sense, but your third paragraph shows you know what I mean.
The relationship between Hira and Kiyoi is unhealthy. Hira's obsession with Kiyoi is unhealthy. The way Kiyoi treats Hira is unhealthy. No matter what circumstances in life brought them to act this way, this is *not* the kind of relationship you would want to have in real life. "They're not actually together so it's fine if their courting involves these unhealthy elements!" is just not a solid argument.
That said, they are fictional characters and the toxicity adds amazing spice to the relationship. I don't watch series to find a manual on how to live my life. I love that Hira is obsessed with Kiyoi. I love that Kiyoi is a dark little tsundere. That's why I watch this show!
There's a certain culture in fandom nowadays where people are pressured to think what they like in fiction is reflective of who they are as a person. Trust me, it's not. It doesn't make you a bad or dangerous person to like their relationship.
It is, however, troubling if you feel the need to downplay the toxicity of their relationship and try to justify Hira saying he worships Kiyoi like a god (that mindset is what attracts Kiyoi to Hira, so you can't just sweep it under the rug). You don't need to pretend their relationship is totally healthy in order to enjoy it. This is fiction. Just enjoy the ride, it doesn't make you a bad person.
On a more serious note (and ignoring the uneven tone, rushed storyline, and general confusing nature of this season), I vastly prefer Se Hyun's character to Yoo Han. Most of that is because of Hyun Jun's stiff, awkward acting in s1. I wasn't attached to his character or his relationship with Yoo Han at all, so it didn't take long for me to warm up to Se Hyun. I also feel a Mono/Mono relationship would be a nice twist on the same old soulmate trope.
I briefly complained about the uneven tone and storyline in this season, but s1 had the same issues—it was just more hyped. As someone who typically loves obsessive relationships, I actually found Yeon Woo & Yoo Han's relationship to be majorly lacking in the chemistry department. Se Hyun and Yeon Woo had a spark that definitely made watching this season worth it.
All that said, I know things will probably go back to business as usual in s3. The original story revolves around Yeon Woo and Yoo Han and people seem to prefer what they had. That's unfortunate imo. How cool would a Mono/Mono relationship be?! But, hey, you gotta stick to the script. Curious to see if Hyun Jun will change his mind and come back or if they'll recast his character.
Overall Color Rush s2 is far from perfect but still a vast improvement on season 1.
You’re describing slash, not BL.
I enjoyed both Cherry Magic and Kieta Hatsukoi a lot, but I'm also not usually a fan of saccharine things. I like spice, drama (but not *too* dramatic), and a little Problematique™ content never hurt nobody lmao
Thank you for your reply!
Alright, I'm calling it: This is my favorite series of 2021! Bravo to the actors, author, and production team. Big thanks to GagaOOLala for making this available for international fans. I hope the novel can be Licensed in English (Seven Seas, where you at?)
Are you in the English-language fandom? Some fans have been leaving suggestions in Seven Seas Entertainment's licensing forms since they also carry light novels. If you have the time, I would definitely suggest filling that out. Hopefully the louder we are the quicker it'll get licensed ★★★
(I hope that's not a clunky example, but if you're a romance drama fan you've probably seen this exact scenario dozens of times)
So, I just want to make it clear that when I talk about "unhealthy behaviors/relationships" I mean in the context of real life. These behaviors do not affect Hira and Kiyoi the same way because they are not real people. I hate having to do this because, again, this is fiction, but it's necessary to get my point across. I hope I won't have to do this for long.
I've said this before in my replies to Rach loves Xieer (I got the impression you've read my replies to them so I won't regurgitate too much), but communication is not the only problem they have. This is a BL, so the romance is the central point, but their issues rely on their own personal issues that need to be addressed so that they are not relying on their partner for a sense self/well-being.
re: People coming to this page to throw around accusations, I believe. There's a movement in fandoms currently of people ("Antis") who moralize on primarily queer fiction in aggressive, unreasonable ways. In fact, my original message assuring people they didn't need to justify what they like in fiction is that people like that can make others feel backed into a corner.
You said "we recognize their unhealthy habits," and really, this is the only thing I cared about in my original post. If someone is acknowledging the unhealthy aspects of their relationship and not trying to pass off what they see on-screen as a healthy relationship, then they're not the ones I was talking about. Explaining the characters' characterization and why they act the way they do is very different from dismissing the unhealthy aspects of their relationship. My concern was that people would carry their defense of these behaviors into the real world rather than acknowledging that they're problematic and liking them anyway.
I hear that their relationship gets healthier in the novel, but even if it didn't, I would still love it. I enjoy media about unhealthy (non-abusive) relationships, that's why I love MBM so much. Double Mints, HIStory4, even Dangerous Drugs of Sex (though the ending is whaaaack lmao) are some of my favorite watches of 2021. I find, at least for myself, that there's power in enjoying messy queer media unabashedly. It takes the power away from those people who use racist, misogynistic language to shame others for enjoying perfectly good shows like MBM.
I am late to the party, but I do read through pages before posting. I won't @' a specific, but even you admit there are some people that whitewash this relationship. I think my comment has enough likes to say other people have noticed this as well and that it concerned them too.
I would like to read the novels someday, but I try not to read unofficial translations. I've put in requests to English licensors like Seven Seas and Yen Press suggesting they pick up the series, but I hope someone does soon. Hopefully, the buzz surrounding the drama will lead to an official license.
Thank you for taking the time to reply to me! Healthy discourse between fans, even if they don't see eye-to-eye, is great when it's civil. While I don't think we have opposing views on this, you've brought in a new perspective for me.
"If showing character flaws and anything that is slightly off to the norms of society is "toxic" then everyone and their grandmother can be called toxic"
There is a lot to unpack here. For one, unhealthy relationships are not born because people are bad people. That is a common misconception. Unhealthy relationships are born out of character flaws—but not all flaws are created equal. If your flaw is that you sometimes forget your partner's birthday, that's one thing. However, if your flaw is that you idolize your partner to the point you view them as a god and you as simply their worshiper, that is not the same thing. One is an annoying flaw. The other is unhealthy behavior. From what I hear, Hira's idolization gets the development treatment in the novels. That should highlight for you why the action is a problem.
"I don't consider the relationship toxic or unhealthy or hurtful to either of the mains. They liked to spend time with each other . Why wouldn't I want to be with someone who makes me happy? F*ck the norms."
I'm getting the impression that you're operating under the idea that their relationship can't be unhealthy if they're happy together. That's a very narrow way of viewing it imo. This is (again) a fictional show about a fictional relationship between two fictional men, so their relationship is not going to mimic those we see in the real world (<---the point of my original post). But because their dynamic make them happy does not mean that's a healthy relationship **as we would view it in the real world**. This is why there is a distinction between real life and fiction.
For example, you've seen those characters in dramas who are overly possessive of their partners to the point where they treat to dictate what they can and can't wear in public, right? That is an unhealthy relationship dynamic. BUT, when it's portrayed in series it can seem romantic, even sexy. Rarely do the characters being told "You can't run around like that, you're MINE!" feel unhappy with this possessive behavior. If it were the real world, that would not be considered a normal, healthy relationship. Do you get what I mean?
"I don't see the toxicity whether your sensitive souls want to believe me or not."
If you don't see why this would be an unhealthy relationship in real life, that is really, really concerning. No one's object of affection should ever mean more than their own sense of self. Unless it's firmly established beforehand, no one should be with someone who keeps them underfoot even if they're just ~protecting their hearts~. I am going to assume you're an adult, so I'm not going to go on a long lecture about that, but I hope you find this is appealing in fiction but not in reality.
" I know what toxic looks like when I see it."
I don't want to insult you, but I'm doubting this. For example, your definition of "toxic" excludes the unhealthy behavior of treating the object of your affection like a god in comparison to you being a lowly worshiper, but includes... my opinion on MBM posted to a drama-watching forum? Because you disagree with my assessment of that relationship, that makes the comment toxic? I've said this before, there are many subject opinions about what makes something toxic—but "That hurt my feelings" isn't one of them. If that is the definition you're operating under, I urge you to reconsider and come back to this with fresh eyes.
"While in reality, Hira and Kiyoi are just flawed characters and what I enjoy and think makes this show a lot "healthy " in comparison to most other shows out there is that this show is not trying to push any of these character flaws under a rug."
I'll direct back to my comment ^ about why "flawed" does not mean "can never be unhealthy."
"Kiyoi doesn't like Hira's "obsession""
I'm spoiler-marking this for episode 5 if you haven't seen it yet (I'm assuming you haven't since you said this): Episode 5 established some things for us about Kiyoi: 1) He wants to be worshipped like idols on TV, and 2) That fact that Hira worships him—giving himt he thing he wanted for so long, going back to when he was unloved as a child—is one of core reasons he likes him. The show makes a point to show Hira thinking of himself as a monk worshiping Kyoi, then in episode 5 we get from Kyoi's perspective this wonderful inner monologue: "Are people who believe in religion like this? It reminds me of the crazy fans that I have seen in the past. You can sacrifice yourself for me to this extent..."
I haven't read the novels, but from what I've heard recently his attitude changes. Likely, he goes through the natural phase of realizing what he thought he wanted isn't what he actually needs. However, it's just false to say Kyoi doesn't like Hira's obsession when it's laid out in the show.
You said my ("toxic") comment "used false words[...] without any further explanation to try to contextualise the situation" to be odd as it implies I should have known to write out an essay on red flags in their relationship. For one, this post is aimed at watchers
"[...]giving out false information and blaming people who like it for not considering the show toxic " An opinion that contradicts your own—even one that makes you feel sad about something you like—is not false information.
I'm sorry if this seems rude, but based on what I've outlined above, I don't think you're the kind of person I can have an open conversation with. I hope I'm wrong, but if you reply with arguments similar to the one you already provided then I'm not going to engage furthear. It's MBM day, bro, I don't have time for bad vibes lmao
I really hope the novel gets licensed in English because I would love to read it. I don't read scans so it's been torture knowing the show is going to end soon lol. Barring anything wild happening in the finale, MBM is definitely going to end up on my favorites of 2021. I'm happy to hear their relationship is stabilizing in the new volumes, but what we've seen in the drama makes me happy, too.
I can go further into that if you like, but semantics isn't what I was talking about in my original message: Unhealthy relationships are bad (in real life) and should not be justified. Hira and Kiyoi's issues go far beyond communication issues. They both have their hang-ups, and though being with one another makes them feel good, that doesn't mean it's healthy. That unhealthiness is a feature of their relationship, not a bug. The whitewashing I'm seeing is troubling.
But, as I mentioned, liking their relationship isn't bad and doesn't reflect on you as a person. How you treat real people should be the only mark of your character. It's more important that you're able to identify problematic elements than it is to have a Watchlist that's only full of Wholesome Content™. I hope that makes sense, but your third paragraph shows you know what I mean.
That said, they are fictional characters and the toxicity adds amazing spice to the relationship. I don't watch series to find a manual on how to live my life. I love that Hira is obsessed with Kiyoi. I love that Kiyoi is a dark little tsundere. That's why I watch this show!
There's a certain culture in fandom nowadays where people are pressured to think what they like in fiction is reflective of who they are as a person. Trust me, it's not. It doesn't make you a bad or dangerous person to like their relationship.
It is, however, troubling if you feel the need to downplay the toxicity of their relationship and try to justify Hira saying he worships Kiyoi like a god (that mindset is what attracts Kiyoi to Hira, so you can't just sweep it under the rug). You don't need to pretend their relationship is totally healthy in order to enjoy it. This is fiction. Just enjoy the ride, it doesn't make you a bad person.