tsutsuloo

@Joanna Fortuna-Queiroz—What's your assessment so far of THE LEGEND OF XIAO CHUO? I liked Ms. Tang in THE PRINCESS WEI YOUNG but I couldn't finish DIAMOND LOVER to save my life (and the abridged version on Viki gives it a worse ending.)

I found someone who might be able to provide answers. Hosted by Ally, Five Thousand Years is a YouTube channel exploring the history of traditional clothing, make up and manners of ancient China. She knows a LOT about hanfu (the traditional Chinese garments) and may have already done a piece on pockets. I'm going to comb through her videos. If she hasn't done one already, I'll ask her about pockets.

As a side note, her video on Tang Dynasty beauty marks is really cool: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nxbiKO6mp0&ab_channel=FiveThousandYears. (They were not worn on the chest as they do in JIU LIU OVERLORD.)

I agree that the romance is muted. I also suspect viewers will have different definitions of what "sweet moments" could mean. I found there were a few cute or tender moments in this latter half of the series—mostly with the ML taking the initiative. All the same, it's hard not to be frustrated by circumscribed feelings and stupid decisions.

Any costume designers here? I've wondered for ages–how do POCKETS work in these Asian costume dramas? In this show alone, characters be pulling out books, knives, jewelry boxes, love letters, ornaments made from dried grass, etc. from sleeves and chest area. For once, I'd love to see something go INTO a pocket.

I might be less irritated if this emotional beat happened earlier in their relationship. Her choices at this point—after everything they've been through—IS confounding. I want to ask the writer and director: "Do you like the FL? Do you like your audience?" Yeesh.

Can you please put that in a spoiler? Fortunately, another MDLer edited the original description.

I suspect it's extremely challenging to write or perform appealing tsundere types without being wooden. A smidge of humor or cheekiness goes a long way to humanize this character type.

I'm curious what you'll think of the characters growth/non-growth by the time you get to Ep. 30.

Ceremony not completed but challenges ensue.

hee, hee! This is exactly the type of supercut fan trailer Tencent likes to put on their website. Can we also add the eye rolls and all the times she puts her foot on Li Qing Liu's table? What are we up to now? Three min? ;)

The SFL's outward regal bearing is deceptively mature, which belies her 7-year age difference with the ML. Alas, even Lady Du is as capable as the next for making poor decisions fueled by unrequited love.

Having looked ahead (with selective translation), I hope we'll learn more about how each main character's respective parents/mentors shaped their behavior. Who will win the prize for Worst and Best Parent? (The adoptive parents—the ML's nanny and the FL's shifu—might have the edge for good parenting.)

Just sped-watched Ep. 19-30. Has there ever been a drama character who uses the "ch" interjection as much our FL? Represented as t͡ʃ in the International Phonetic Alphabet, linguists call it the voiceless postalveolar affricate. Parents and teachers call it f*ing irritating. If we made a supercut of all of Long Ao Yi's interjections, it would run a full minute.

This "ch" sound is Long Ao Yi's dominant (dismissive) vocalization and it's killing me. It's one thing for teens to occasionally use it, but it would be wretched to have a person I love constantly uttering " t͡ʃ t͡ʃ t͡ʃ t͡ʃ t͡ʃ t͡ʃ t͡ʃ."

So yeah, I'm less enamored with the FL and want her to grow up already. But the ML? As others noted below, his growing warmth is kind of dazzling. In the second half of the series, the ML feels like the emotional core of the story. Lai Yi is giving me all sorts of feels. (I did enjoy him as the Hot Doctor from LEGEND OF FUYAO but I had little emotional investment with his character.)

Heh— I admit to being pretty circumspect when it comes to evaluating "romance" in Asian dramas. After a few years of enjoying dramas from all over Asia, I'll take what I can get. ;)

Lingering looks? Check. Cherry blossom plucked from hair? Sweet! Peeled a prawn for your dinner mate? I've got goosebumps. Taking an arrow in the gut to protect your beloved? My heart's a-flutter. A sweet, short love letter? Swoon. Forehead kiss? I'm verklempt. Told off your nasty mother? Marry me. Kicked ass together wuxia style? I'm yours.

The previews for the last 15 episodes (Ep. 21-36) suggests a ramping up of romantic emotions. It's the worst when shows skimp on the romantic catharsis but I think there will a bit of angst, sweet fluff and romance down the road—and not in just the last 10 minutes.

In addition to the some of the new skills @funnypeopleswim mentioned, I think Long Ao Yi's greatest potential for growth is allowing herself to be EMOTIONALLY VULNERABLE. Her early life was horrid—orphaned, nearly trafficked—so her defenses are understandable to a point. Perhaps she still can't let down her walls with the ML because she's uncertain of where she stands with Li Qing Liu.

Even when she started reading poetry and encouraged everyone to do the same, she wasn't really doing it for its own sake. So when her pride is wounded, her first instinct is to get rid of the her library.

For all her independence, she's surprisingly prideful (and maybe stupid, as others have suggested) when it comes to romance. She wants something more and is embarrassed when the confession she hopes for is simply a request to partner on another project. (SFL says, "Tell me about it!")

For me, watching Long Ao Yi be casually cruel and crass is both understandable AND frustrating. I don't really blame the FL for her lack of confidence —we can't overstate the social distance between the ML and FL—but I oftentimes find myself muttering, "Ease up a bit, sister!"

(NOTE: I was surprised to learn that merchants and artisans were actually near the BOTTOM of Tang Dynasty social strata. Li Qing Liu is a wealthy, brilliant merchant and artisan but–at this point of the Tang Dynasty–a nobleman like Lord Du merely tolerate him. Our ML is a man ahead of his time; it's the Song Dynasty that sees the rise of the merchant class.)

I'm all for flawed characters but it's awful when they don't grow. I'm still watching, hoping for a significant acceleration in the FL's personal growth for the second half of the series.

@MyDramaTicLife —Excellent point about male lead devotion to the FL! The ML's lack of true, emotional attachment to other people is their own version of sexual purity. Even if they've had other affairs, the FL is the One True Love.

JIU LIU OVERLORD lays it on thick with Li Qing Liu's lady allergy. He's literally allergic to emotional and physical intimacy—until he meets our beautiful gangster, Long Ao Yi.

Interesting (if depressing) point about the value of virginity at a brothel. Given that the madam never had our FL cultivate the typical lady arts, Long Ao Yi seemed to put all her energies into being cunning.

Your comment about her not knowing how to dress, etc. cracked me up. I loved the whole Ep. 4 scenario with Ao Yi getting fitted in the red dress. She tugged and grumped like a cat forced to wear pants.

For someone who acts so butch, our beautiful FL still has some feminine wiles up her sleeve. At the end of Ep. 1, she disarms the ML with sob story about working day and night to feed her family and even used an absurd fake confession. (*cue eyelash fluttering*). And for someone who pays little attention to the delicate arts, her alluring dance at the Du Mansion dinner (Ep. 5) was doubly astonishing. Ao Yi is definitely aware of her beauty even if she regards all men as asexual brothers. She's not above preening in front of mirror, for example.

I agree with other comments about the FL's behavior being a bit much. (Seriously—Even the dudes don't eat with their mouths open. And who puts their feet on someone's table?!) Give the audience more credit—we're intelligent enough to discern nuanced differences between characters. The way they're played now, the FL is a flame and the SFL is a block of ice. I like them both better when they slow down and reveal their cunning and vulnerabilities.

"why not take that traditionally male character and make him a her and appeal to women"

Yes! Our "plucky" protagonists are "masculine" in the sense that they seek freedom of thought and movement while still being sexually pure.

As a small girl, my first non-conformist heroine was Jo, from LITTLE WOMEN. Of all the sisters, Jo's intelligence and independence made her my favorite and most aspirational character. Even though I shared a passion for the arts like Amy, I vigorously despised her insipid, "girly-girl" qualities. To this day, I can't even stomach the thought of watching a film adaptation.

;)
One of the many frothy c-dramas titled with an interjection. Oh! Oops! Yikes!

Down thread, @funnypeopleswim, @Joanna Fortuna-Queiroz and I noted the trend of virginal female leads growing up in brothels. MY QUESTION: What are the advantages of this scenario?

Here are three examples I’ve recently watched:

JIU LIU OVERLORD (2020): Qiu You, the owner of the Wuyun Pavilion, has mentored Long Ao Yi to be fiercely independent and chaste. Our FL is the most beautiful woman at the Pavilion but—as her shifu tells Li Qing Liu in Ep. 2—“She’s a girl who sells neither sex or art, nor even flatter the guest.”

Sure, our girl chews with her mouth open, swings her arms while walking, and man spreads while sitting—but above all, she is pure. (It’s the only option for the FL.) She doesn’t even look at men as sexual beings—not until she meets the ML.

OOPS! THE KING IS IN LOVE (2020): Yan Zhixia’s parents are a minister and a prostitute. After her parents divorce, she grows up at the pavilion, spending most of her time in the markets leading her little gang. She’s beautiful but dresses as a man and lives freely. Her friends even call her Brother. She enters the palace in the guise of a eunuch to search for a friend and ends up serving the Emperor.

OH! MY SWEET LIAR! (2020): Xiong Xi Ruo is an orphan adopted by a loving mother who raises her at the Art Pavillion. A chaste but rascally girl, Xi Ruo is a gifted painter with eidetic memory. She cherishes her freedom and, unlike the other two FL described above, presents a very feminine persona.

What other examples have you seen of this trend? How does the whorehouse setting shape the FL’s character?

I've just added the post. ;)