vlinder

Thanks! Love those examples you mention from episode 8.

I also wonder the same thing about Choy. What I did notice is that Choy first got her information about Wichai and Janthorn from the fight between Chut and Wichai when Chut gave Wichai the photos. Before that she was oblivious to any possible relationship. Next, it was enforced by the two going to Anong's birthday and the train ticket. My point being she needs to be told things or see proof or else she doesn't appear to notice these things. Maybe that's why she hasn't noticed Anong's interest? It's strange because a married woman would easily pick up on these cues in real life. Perhaps she's a flat character in this story who serves a certain purpose.

I have 2 theories about why Wichai keeps on inserting Chut into conversations between himself and Anong. The first is that he doesn't want to be the brother who takes his kid brother's fiance away, therefore, Chut is the barrier he uses to create a distance. The second is that he doesn't want to examine his feelings for her because he has to revisit his emotional baggage/ does not want to enter a relationship because he thinks he'll die young . Therefore he is using Chut to create distance. In both theories he's hiding behind Chut lol. Chut must save him from love!
You could also take the deep psychological/symbolic route and say Chut is the deserving brother (because he has his mother's love) and he is the undeserving brother (because he lacks his mother's love). He projects the deserving side of himself on Chut (the part that is happy and loved). Hence, marrying the deserving brother is like marrying the deserving part of himself.

This is the third Thai drama I've ever watched and I am so thoroughly enjoying it. The main couple live rent-free in my head.

I see quite some discussion below about whether Wichai loves Janthorn or Anong. It can be confusing because in drama's we're often told what is going on by someone with astute insights. In this case, the people who are giving us insight into how Wichai is feeling aren't very reliable. Choy hasn't observed the dynamics between Anong and Wichai and has no clue what kind of impact it's having on her brother. Wichai also isn't being honest to himself about his feelings. So, I take my clues from other things. I'll just mention some instances that make me believe Wichai loves Anong:
1) the first time he became aware of his feelings for Anong was in the movie theatre when his brother was rehearsing his proposal. He fantasized about kissing Anong, not about Janthorn.
2) The day after Anong's birthday party when he saw Anong holding Pong's boyfriend's arm, he almost lost it and told himself he needed to keep it together. Dare I say he was jealous??!!
3) As he was scolding Chut for his immature behavior, he kept mentioning how perfect Anong is. I'm not sure he made any such mentions about Janthorn.
4) In episode 9 after everything that happened that day as he was driving home what made him cry was not Janthorn holding Chut's arm and saying she wants to marry him. No, it was Anong's words about how she was rejected by the man she loves that made him cry.

I also believe he is well-aware of the fact that Anong loves him. From the beginning he was portrayed as an empathetic person who has great insight into human behavior (why else would Pong ask him to vet the husband candidates). That all of the sudden broke down with Anong? That just doesn't make sense. He knows what she feels, he's just not willing to accept it and is trying to create a distance. As a viewer, you're left wondering why and I think episode 9 answers it. With Anong, he needs to revisit his emotional baggage from his youth and first marriage and overcome them to allow himself to accept her love.

Anyway these are a few of my thoughts.

Look, I'm not implying you're someone who doesn't like a complex drama. You mentioned it flopped, I mentioned why I thought this might have been the case. If it didn't work for you, it didn't. You're entitled to your own opinion.

I'm also not saying I liked the drama because of Empress Wu. I was describing why the drama hooked me in the first place. Di Renjie's character development is interesting enough for me and I like the way the story is told with a lot of subtext. I like that you have to piece together a lot the characters' stories, not only because information is gradually released (like is typical in dramas) but also because you need to make sense of what information is given to you in the form of dialogue, acting, frame composition and cinematography (and I'm not talking about the cases). I like that it asks deeper questions for example about fate and the power of one's voice and that they influence Di Renjie's development. This is what makes it work for me. This requires work from the part of the viewer and might not be up everyones alley.

If you don't like it because you would have liked to have seen more of Empress Wu that's fine. If you like the portrayal of Empress Wu in other dramas better that's fine too. I'm sure you must have other reasons aside from these ones. Again, you're entitled to your own opinion as does everyone else who didn't enjoy it. But that doesn't make it a bad drama. It makes it a drama that's not to your liking.

Perhaps because it's not the type of drama audiences understand or want to see, which is a pity for those who do like this. I get the feeling that audiences today want to be spoon fed or continuously entertained. They don't have the patience or willingness to work through a more complex drama. I can't blame anyone. At the end of a busy day you just want to switch your brain off and relax.

What hooked me was Di Renjie's trauma surrounding his father's death and the Empress's struggle against men who couldn't handle a powerful woman with fresh ideas and were against or afraid of the reform she brought. Their stories lie just underneath the mystery case and sometimes come to the surface and are touching.

A lot of Judge Dee's story telling is in the cinematography and the structure of each frame. They portray Di Renjie's state of mind and provide a commentary on the times. There is a lot of symbolism. Not everything is mentioned in the dialogue. If you rely on dialogue alone, you miss a lot of the story.

I agree with your observations and opinions on Eternal Brotherhood.

She's trying to change/outsmart her fate. With fate no matter how much you change your behavior or choices, what was meant to happen still happens. She experimented with it in episode 1 or 2. Despite different choices, she still got a knee injury (also happened in her first life). So, she figures she can only avoid what happened in her previous life by shoving her fate on her "best friend's" plate (I think she also experimented with the idea in ep 1 or 2 to confirm it would work). That's why she is tolerating their behavior.

Though I haven't warmed up to her yet, she does indeed have some admirable qualities: like you said she pays back her debt, she's tough and doesn't let people walk over her (I'll take that over an innocent and naive female lead any day), and she doesn't wallow in self-pity.

One of the things I found remarkable is that everyone in the drama, except Qi Lian, FangZhou and the lady who found her are rude and cold. It gives such a distinct feel to the drama making it cold and dark. I wonder if those vibes change as the story progresses.

That may be true (I'm not sure yet because I'm not that far in viewing the drama) but up until episode 4, from the way the character is presented, her internal thoughts and dialogue with other characters, those are the reasons presented for why she is acting as she is.

At that point we do not know yet whether one or both of the worlds are fake. She believes she is in a parallel dimension (that is her way of making sense of what happened to her) and things are still unfolding. In episode 2 she chooses to be XiaoYuan of 2025 when that version of her appears before her and asks why she went to "her" world.

In episode 4, she's also just entered the salon, has no money and no place to stay. As all her ideas to go back to 2025 are a dead end. She realizes she needs to survive in the current world for the time being. Therefore, she decides to make the effort to survive in the salon. But her arrogant attitude, make her an outcast among her colleagues and that is consistent with her behavior in 2025 (in 2025 her colleagues also didn't like her) . In episode 4 she has no plans yet to leave the salon.

So, if there's another deeper reason, it hasn't been revealed yet.

There are two things at play: 1) she's still the rich girl from episode 1 and hasn't dropped her mannerisms, therefore she's arrogant, bad-tempered and has a lot of useless pride. Daddy (if he exists) has always taken care of her therefore she's never had to think about survival. As she learns to survive without the status and privilege that comes with money, her attitude changes. 2) She doesn't identify with the Xiao Yuan of the world she's currently in. As QiLian knows the Xiao Yuan of that world she wants to keep him far away from her because he might figure out that she's an imposter. That's her thought process.

I'm not very far into the drama, but the symbolism in the first episode alone is amazing! They are symbols that represent a boat coming home/to shore.

The system, for instance, is called the Lighthouse Activation System [symbol = lighthouse; guides boats to shore].
15 minutes before the lighthouse activates, Mr Xu calls Xiao Yuan to be at Pier #13. [symbol = pier; where boats dock at the shore]
Xiao Yuan is instructed to take the cross-river bridge. Though she's in a car, she's crossing a body of water, which is similar to a boat. A boat sailing home/to shore.
She falls into the river. A river is a body of water. Water reflects images and she enters a world that reflects her own. Water could also allude to an illusion, but combined with the lighthouse [and the function of a lighthouse], I'm thinking maybe it isn't. Maybe the world she left is the illusion. [symbol = water]

There are more symbols, but I think this shows the gist of it and leads me to believe the story is layered.

This is almost like a modern day Alice in Wonderland

Honestly I'm shocked by your response and double standards. No one should be violated, whether woman or man. When you say something like that it makes you no different from the man who thinks he has the right to violate a woman for whatever stupid reason. Being treated with decency and respect applies to EVERYONE and is the reason why women and minority groups have been able to successfully gain ground in their fight to be treated equally and fairly. When this ground-laying principle only applies to the group or people you favor, it can easily be turned around on you and used as a reason to harm your freedoms and rights. A woman is not stupid for pointing that out. A woman, who bears both daughter and son, is not stupid for closely guarding this principle.

Yep, me too. The drama is good so far but, though the scene is humorous, I kind of felt uncomfortable/ashamed to find it funny because it's not consensual. I agree it might have gone a bit too far.

Uhmmmm.... is it me or was the ML almost raped in episode 5? 🙈🙈🙈

Her lies and cluelessness on how to handle the situation stem from a false image she had in her head about ShiYan. She thought he wouldn't be able to understand or forgive her and she didn't want to lose him. What was heartbreaking was that he was more forgiving and accepting than the image of him that lives in her head. It is very relatable and not uncommon.

No, it's not bad. I think most people are annoyed with the female lead's values and the time it takes for her deception to be discovered. It's also a drama where the leads take their time to get to know each other, but when they're together they're absolutely adorable and they warm your heart. Your advantage is that you come at a time when all episodes are aired. So your blood won't boil that long and you'll enjoy it even more. On this forum the blood has boiled so long (while waiting for episodes to air), that it has festered. Don't expect the best drama you've ever seen, but my opinion is that it's still an enjoyable watch.

Yeah, I read something similar as well. It was not a drama he chose, he did it as a favor.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

I am seeing a lot of frustrated comments here and all I can say is I'm enjoying this drama. Is it the best drama I've ever seen? No. Does it have flaws? Yes. But nonetheless it is still enjoyable.

You have a female lead who has been chased all her life because of her good looks. Yet, she didn't value those who chased and managed to capture her. Look at XingZhou, it's not that she really loved and valued him as she always put her career above any of his needs. Because of her breakup and the need to vindicate her ego, she - for the first time - is placed in a position where she needs to chase the guy ... and she sucks at it. It's not surprising because she has no experience at it. So, what does she do? She asks and heavily leans on her friend, who has more experience in that department to help her ... with all the disasters that come along with it!

Ruoshan might be good at seducing but she sucks at stable relationships and in the beginning FL's only intent is to seduce. I guess both need to figure out that seduction is not a long-term game plan. So, yes we're angry that they're so stupid! But how do you learn if you make no mistakes? I'm eager to see what they learn from all of this (especially what they want to say about balancing career ambition and relationships; because FL values her career over any man and that won't work). I had a hard time with it because they don't share my values. Watching their manipulation pushes all of my buttons ... and I guess other's as well.

Another thing is that many say the relationship dragged on too long before her true intentions were revealed. But that time was devoted to her blundering and the male lead trying to understand her intentions. He's rich, I'm sure he's encountered many women who want him for his money. Of course he'd be suspicious of her and take the time to get to know her. He needs to vet she's not after his money and resources before he can fully trust her. And to make her fall even more dramatic, they will incorporate a lot of sweetness leading up to the fall.

I've already mentioned that I like the business aspect of it too.

So, ultimately despite its flaws, I am enjoying myself and looking forward to how all this will wrap up.

I'm not watching that one so I can't really compare. All I can say is that I'm enjoying the business story in this drama and the themes they present.

I completely understand! Sometimes we just want to wind down and enjoy cute romantic scenes. :)