wellwellbelle

I feel like some of the confusion over where their relationship is at (along with the did they/didn't they) might be a bit of a cultural translation thing. I'm not an expert by any means, but after watching a fair amount of Asian drama, I feel like there's some standard relationship stages that don't match up exactly to what US/Canada (my area) and probably other English/Western relationship stages are. So that's why it feels like Tine's confusion or hesitation goes on way too long (a bit, there might be some writing issues there too).

"Fan" gets translated as boyfriend (or girlfriend), but I think it's the much more serious side of what we would call that. Then there's the "flirting" stage that is maybe sorta like dating, but it seems to me like the "flirting" stage encompasses both casual dating and the early sort of exclusive dating stage that we would usually call "boyfriend."

If I think about it that way, the last three episode's progression makes a lot more sense.

As for Tine being shy about kissing/sex, there's a few things (and I'm taking this as being a separate story from the book; I know in the book they'd had sex by now, but also lots of people have pointed out that Sarawat is a somewhat different character in the show and so I think we should take the show on it's own). The rest of my thoughts are in the spoiler comment:

You've hit on almost everything I loved about this episode and much of the series. I can only disagree in that I think it will stand up just fine to plot dissecting as long as the dissecting is done with an understanding of the romance genre :D

I *absolutely loved* the little conflict and quick resolution during their first date. My impression of Bohn is that he's closeted gay (never been interested in girls) and has had this het facade that leads people to think he's a player but he's never actually been serious with any girls. It was pretty clear from the romantic cues that he fell for Duen at first sight and just wanted to spend more time with him.... and more and more and more.

All the jerky things he's done look like he's tormenting or shaming Duen from the perspective of Duen's friends who think he's a het player. But Duen's been seeing the cute and sweet and sincere side of him and has a different interpretation. This makes for a really solid dynamic of conflict with between Duen, his friends, and Bohn.

Also, we've seen repeatedly that while Bohn is cute and sincere, he's also immature. But he wants to do better with Duen... both of which come out in that conflict on the first date. And then when he realizes that Duen didn't say "he is so my boyfriend" because he thought Bohn was ashamed of him, that was such a great moment. Like, when you play games with the person you like, you can hurt them... I love that the show gave us these little moments of a youthful relationship that feels fumbling but sincere, and gave us a small moment of growth instead of stupid drama. It was really refreshing.

I'm with you. I feel like the dragging wasn't so much the flirting itself, but the lack of clarity about what stage the relationship is at and where it's going.

The thing with Sarawat getting beat up seemed really tacked on and I wasn't totally clear why this was happening/who was instigating it/how long it's been going on. I feel like they could have made it a lot more clear without having to take a lot more time, so it's disappointing that they didn't. The guys are saying it's about the IG posts, but I'm wondering if Mil is behind it? It seemed like the timing of the scenes at the end could be that he'd received a message about Sarawat's whereabouts and/or an update on beating him up....

This was the first episode where I felt a little disappointed in the editing and storytelling. I'm not sure if it's a language/cultural translation thing, but I thought that we established last week a certain point of the relationship had been reached, and this week seemed to backtrack it. I was totally down for all the cute flirting, and I'm totally okay with the relationship progressing slowly, but I'm a little confused on what exactly are Sarawat and Tine's expectations of each other.

When that isn't clear, it's much harder to enjoy their interactions, as well as hard to interpret what to think of what the friends are doing/whether Tine should be more clear and so on. (Although I thought the first segment was the most problematic story-wise. Things got better as it went).

Also, did not enjoy the fake profile story line (but so glad they ended it quickly). Mostly because it was easy to see how it would go wrong and therefore boring. I'm ready for that plotline to either go away or move forward.

I could go with either closeted or bisexual for Tine. With women he seems to experience sexual attraction without emotional attraction, like, he's up for a fling with either, but he's never fallen in love with a girl... give that there's a pretty big spectrum covered by "bisexual" that seems within the realm of possibility?

The painful/forced first sexual encounter is a very common trope in het romance novels, both asian and western. I'm quite sure waves of protest wouldn't have erupted, and I think that the fact that the trope exists in bl has *a lot* to do with its existence in het romance as well as (what someone mentioned elsewhere) internalized misogyny and rape culture.

I do, though, think that sometimes in both het and bl, these scenes are ways of working through experiences or ideas that the author has. That is not to excuse them... but I do think that at least in some cases in bl, it feels like authors are putting male characters through a woman's experience of sexual assault and/or having a guy assault someone he identifies with which then leads to a (perhaps cathartic) understanding from the rapist that they did wrong (this was my impression of the rape in Addicted).

So, all that is to say, I think there are some reasons that rape and assault happen in bl that might be specific to bl, but in no way are sexual assault and rape between the "romantic" leads unusual in het romance.

My take on Bohn from the start is that he's closeted. His gay friend talked about that guy as being "not his type" which of course could mean because he's a guy... but just overall Bohn comes across as closeted so it fits that he's always ready with excuses/reasons/explanations for whatever that sound very het.

If that's the case, then of course Bohn is going to say he's not into guys in response to a guy he's not interested in, or "I only like that guy" in response to someone saying "you obviously like guys so pick me." We don't have to believe him. It's not like he's saying it in a situation where honesty is important. His goal in that moment is to get the guy away from him, not clarify his sexuality.

He hasn't said anything like that to any of his friends or his nephew when they've questioned him. He's either skirted the question or just confirmed liking Duen without reference to general preferences. So, I don't feel like we have to take that scene as the definitive answer to his sexuality.

I got the feeling that the "hurt" was not physical. Given what Dim said, something along the lines of "now I know how you felt" I suspect it was Dim being insensitive about Green feeling insecure/jealous, rather than any actual physical violence.

Specifically, I'm LOVING how they resolved the Green storyline. It puts his earlier behaviour in perspective; he's being immature but not in the way it seemed originally.

I love the twist that he doesn't give up on Tine and find someone else, but that he's already in an established relationship.

I extra-loved that Tine defended him and stood up to his senior and said that no matter what P's relationship with Green, he didn't have the right to hurt him (that goes back to this show consistently lampshading the kinds of behaviour that is often problematically normalized in romances, BL and het, and putting way more reasonably boundaries or outcomes around them).

The resolution between Green and his guy was perfect. Then, more fantastic pacing, we get back story that ties together Green's backstory with the revelation about Sarawat, creating more emotional depth for both storylines.

The misunderstanding was also handled brilliantly. It's not a stupid misunderstanding because the plot needs it, it's deeply rooted in what's going on. Tine's been confused about his and Sarawat's feelings for a while now. Sarawat keeps seeming to confess and then just as Tine's about to take it seriously, he pulls an "I'm just joking" in a way that both has Tine questioning everything that's made him think Sarawat likes him up to now and becoming increasingly afraid of revealing his own growing feelings.

Sarawat's motivation isn't to screw with Tine, it's because he's scared that if Tine knows, he'll give Sarawat the final rejection and everything will go back to where it was before. He's caught between wanting to push their relationship to the next stage and being afraid of loosing everything. It's super-believably rooted in the fact that Tine has been presenting as 100% het. Sarawat feels vulnerable and afraid each time he confesses, and so he walks it back before Tine can respond... thus digging his own grave when Tine hears him using that most explicit confession line on a girl.

I'm excited to see where they take it, and if they can maintain this level of quality storytelling to the end. I'm hoping they'll take some time to let us see the "figuring out how to have this relationship" stage instead of jumping into a full-on love triangle.

See, this is how you do side stories. The side stories so far have all been very short scenes, or layered with advancing the plot/character development of the main storyline. Now we get our angsty separation part of the main romance storyline, and we can fill in development on the side stories so that we don't have to have long mopey shots to fill in the time during the "dark night" separation beat. Instead we get high impact (OMG MY HEART) scenes like the one at Tine's apartment where Sarawat leaves his guitar, and fill in the time doing development on the side couples. This is what makes the pacing so brilliant on this show, and I am so here for it.

I'm with you! I had a difficult time a few years ago, and rediscovered my love of romance in that period. It's nice to watch stuff that's on the whole just positive, happy ending stories about people figuring out their lives and loves :)

I think we don't disagree! A genre can be overdone, and I think the Thai college student bl genre *is* overdone. But it seems to me like we're saying the same thing: the show is good within the genre, even if the genre is tired.

And I also agree that because the genre is tired, people might skip out on what's turning into a really charming little show! Which is why I sort of wanted to encourage separating out "this genre is over done" conceptually from "this particular entry into the genre is good or bad."

This is a good show in a tired genre. Over-used tropes are a given, but the chemistry is great, the acting is good, and the fluff is fluffy and soft :D

Okay, this is a tiny, mostly loving rant about comments I've seen here (and also on the 2gether page). Only because I feel like people are apologizing for liking genre fiction even though it's unoriginal. For those of you who love genre fiction, feel free to embrace it! For those of you who want more, that's okay, but it's not genre's fault if it doesn't meet your high-concept desires :)

It's fine to be tired of the genre or want shows that explore different subgenres or age categories, but can we please distinguish "I'm tired of X genre plots/settings" from "this show is unoriginal."

So, some definitions:

This is a romance, sub-genre boy love, age category college. None of the tropes that belong to those genres make this "unoriginal," they make it genre.
All genre fiction is on some level unoriginal. That's literally the definition of genre fiction.

Originality or not comes from what they do with the tropes, and even then it's a pretty hard thing to do in genre fiction. Usually it's not the most important measure of what makes genre fiction good.

So what makes genre fiction good? For me, good romance comes from relatable/likeable characters, cute or funny interactions. Excellent comes from executing the plot elements well, good direction, editing and acting, and at least some characters that are complex. I like it when their personality, goals, and actions all come from each other in a way that makes their feelings and choices understandable. (Other genres have other things, like a good mystery should be hard for the characters to solve even when they're intelligent, or a good action story should have exciting action scenes that further the plot).

I want to hear about the things that make a genre show good or bad *within* it's genre! We already know it's not original. So, what makes you like it or not like it *other* than that?

This definitely goes into my mental "Hot mess but wildly entertaining" list. Altho ep 9 I found boring. It was half filler, which made sifting through for the non-filler annoying.

Exactly. In fact, I wouldn't call Sarawat possessive. He joked that if Tine flirted with Pear, he's touch Tine's boobs, but in fact all he did was excuse himself and give Tine privacy. So there's the joking where he tries to tell Tine how much he likes him, but then there is his actual behaviour where he respects boundaries. He doesn't approach pushing a boundary until he is actually in a very vulnerable state.

Tine wants it all: the ambiguous nice feelings he has with Sarawat that he doesn't have to examine too closely because they're "faking", and the opportunity to flirt with and date girls that catch his eye. Sarawat tried to step away, but Tine didn't want that, which leaves Sarawat in this really emotionally difficult position.

I think it's really well done. Tine isn't being honest with himself or Sarawat about what he wants, and Sarawat isn't quite brave enough to lay it all out on the table and say something like "I like you for real and I want to be your boyfriend for real." Their actions in this episode stem clearly from those two core weaknesses. And the crisis comes to a head with this kiss that's going to force both of them to confront their own issues.

In an ideal world, Sarawat would provoke this crisis by saying "I actually like you, you weird dense idiot!" But the kiss still feels authentic to the characters and their weaknesses, and I am trusting that based on all the opportunities for force-tropes that the episode pointed to without following through on, that this will play out in a way that stays within the bounds of not-perfect-but-still-recoverable

I agree. So many times Sarawat tried to leave, just leave Tine alone and let him be and be sad by himself. Tine keeps pulling Sarawat back to him, but not getting Sarawat's feelings. The dynamics of the scene aren't a one-sided one person pushing their will on another, but more like Sarawat challenging Tine: if you're going to keep holding onto me, you have to acknowledge me!

Not to excuse a forced kiss... but it's written with a dynamic that feels genuinely like people struggling to figure themselves and each other out, not like one person deciding "you're for me and I'm going to make you see it that way with physical force."

i m ded. how to wait a week????????

Me too! The episodes are so short, we totally could have had a scene or two with them!

I almost put that in my comment as the most relatable line in the episode, lol

I feel like this show is really enjoyable on a scene-by-scene basis, but is not hanging together as a "story". Like, I loved the Saifah/Zon moments, but I have no understanding of what their relationship is, especially what Zon thinks it is. And as other posters have mentioned, the Tutor/Fighter character's motivations and emotional states seem to be almost unrelated to what (we thought) was established last week. So frustrating because, again, individual scenes are often quite fun.