If you ask me I would say, well, far better than the other remakes I wont compare it with HanaDan because I havent…
Echoing lilili, I'd also say that the FL in the Taiwanese Meteor Garden is the only other FL besides Gorya that I think actually comes across as strong as we're supposed to believe she is.
I literally had no idea who Bright or Win were until the first episode of F4T dropped. And then I binged 2gether…
What sold you about the Kavin character as a playboy in other versions? I'm curious.
For me, Win has done a nice job of being appropriately frivolous. He seems the type to have "flirty" switched to on, and his interactions with all the people he is flirting with are the right kind of flattering but shallow, which let his moment with Kaning feel significant. As they were speaking about Gorya, for just a second, he seemed to reply with an honest answer rather than a flirty one, "trust your friend". I'm excited for more scenes with them.
Also, having just re-watched ep1-3 of HYD, I noticed that F4 made a change to bring Kaning to the party, which was a FANTASTIC choice to set up future interactions with the two characters. It is usually a weirdly forced pairing to me, in part because they don't usually interact enough.
I actually really miss dramas like these, yes they're problematic, but if it's entertaining and interesting with…
Hm. As much as I fully love this show, I have to completely disagree with you lol.
I feel quite strongly that fiction sets the bar for what is accepted in society, and so there should never be acceptance for problematic fiction simply *because* it's fiction. That is, I believe problematic elements in fiction don't necessarily make it bad (depending on the story, the reason, the effect, etc), but I'll never agree that problematic elements are okay just because it's fiction and "it shouldn't be taken seriously anyway".
Fiction is hugely influential to us. When watching/reading fiction, we let the characters stand in as our proxies and we are affected by their decisions. There's research that suggests reading fiction is a major way for kids to learn empathy with others, for instance. So our fiction needs to understand that it also has a responsibility to us, and we need to expect more from our fiction than just entertainment. (hense why I am loving F4 so much)
Domyoji indeed has weird sister-complex LOL. But he doesn’t fall in love just because Makino the same as his…
It seems clear to me that he wants to stop at multiple points but can't.
When MJ tells him to cancel the red card, he hesitates and looks like he'll agree but then he thinks of his mother.
When Hana is about to have her head shaved, Thymes face looks disgusted (and he pushes the guy who's going to do it into the water later too... probably venting his dislike)
When Gorya enters to save Hana, his eyes flash.
When Ren comes and stops Gorya, he is obviously relieved.
Even when he cuts her shoe is a way for him to end it without getting violent. I think if Gorya had just backed down in that moment, Thyme would've said it was over after humiliating her.
I feel this way too. Binge watching is fun for getting through the plot quickly, but watching 1 per week is great for really taking each episode as it comes to think about and discuss. It's painful, but I'm loving the discussions.
Domyoji indeed has weird sister-complex LOL. But he doesn’t fall in love just because Makino the same as his…
Hmm... to me it feels so natural that he would be smitten by her because Gorya is so cool lol
On a story/character level (not a thematic one), here's a thought:
Thyme knows he's gone too far with Gorya's red card, but every time he tries to find a way to back out and end it, she defies him and won't give him the upper hand (she put the shoe on and kicked him with it, she refused his gifts and wouldn't apologize, she chose to shave her head rather than give in). These moments were way more powerful to me than in previous versions where the FL just hits and yells at the ML and gains his attention that way. Probably, because her defiance matches him. Every step he takes, she counters. Who knows how far they'd go if Ren didn't step in and break the tension.
There's also a sadder Freudian angle to this. Yeah, apparently, we fall for people who remind us of our parents…
Oh haha! Thanks for saying
To be honest, when I was 20 I was terrible at talking about shows and movies. I had a friend who used to gather a group for a movie night once a week. Everyone would discuss it afterwards and I barely ever had anything to say.
The key thing that held me back was being afraid I'd be "wrong" or sound silly trying to express myself. But I'm over that now. The only thing that really matters is reflection. Even if all you can focus on for something is just how it makes you feel, or what it reminds you of, it's still a good point of discussion. Especially if you have others willing to discuss the concept with you, so you can explore and deepen your thoughts about it.
This thread was just me throwing out a random point of discussion that I was interested in to see if anyone wanted to pick it up, and luckily for me, the comments are super thoughtful and insightful, and have pointed out things that have caused me to think deeper about it. I love that.
It's been about 10 years since those movie nights, by the way, and I'm still extremely grateful to that friend for helping me become open to these discussions in the first place. I hope you end up having a friend or internet stranger give you praise like you gave us sometime in your future too. :)
Lol, BoF scarred me so bad, (it was my 4th I spose?).... it turned me of k-dramas completely! xD
Omg >< I thought that you must have tried watching BOF a long time ago, not in the last couple of years.
Like, I *guess* I can understand that BOF helped bring new watchers to Kdramas back in 2009 (cuz that's what they tell me lol), but there's no way I believe anyone can watch it in 2017 and not feel exactly like you did. hahaha.
Lol, BoF scarred me so bad, (it was my 4th I spose?).... it turned me of k-dramas completely! xD
I was gonna say... aren't you the same Chibi that comments on dramabeans? lol I noticed the name when I was looking to see if anyone else was watching F4 over there
I'm commenting to pull your attention to E_Maya and Chibi's comments below.
I've mentioned this to you before (and this thread works really well to show you what I mean by it) but it really is okay to have deeper discussions about things. Discussing something does not mean dissing it, and unthinkingly praising something is just as it sounds...unthinking.
You clearly love HYD and all versions of the story, so it seems to me like you will ENJOY thinking more about them, if you let yourself.
There's also a sadder Freudian angle to this. Yeah, apparently, we fall for people who remind us of our parents…
Oooh, I love this. Where I was shying away from the freudian undertones, you embraced them and made the concept way more compelling.
It's like, the sucking void of love that is Tsukasa's mother has not just left our ML emotionally stunted, but also left him seeking mother stand-ins to fill that primal need.
Where his sister is his sister (no romance) and Shizuka is like an older sister since childhood (no romance), with Makino, he feels the same sort of "smell" (like the sister says) but confuses it for romantic feelings.
It's like the phenomenon of misattributing the reason for a thumping heart... they say you should take a date on a roller coaster because when their heart is beating wildly and they look at you, the feeling of fear/adrenaline will be mistaken for feelings of love.
This helps explain why he is so desperate in the beginning, when there's no real reason to believe he truly loves her yet. He doesn't even really KNOW her yet, so it's all projection in the early stages anyway, this is just the set up that gets him there.
Or, at least that's how I ran with what you were saying lol
I just re-watched ep1-3 of Hana Yori Dango and just have to get this off my chest...
They are pretty blatant that Tsukasa only falls for Makino because he was a weird sister-complex and, as his sister tells Tsukushi, they “have the same smell” (that is, they treat Tsukasa the same way).
I really never understood the set-up of a romantic connection that begins with liking her cuz she beats him up like his sister.
For me, Win has done a nice job of being appropriately frivolous. He seems the type to have "flirty" switched to on, and his interactions with all the people he is flirting with are the right kind of flattering but shallow, which let his moment with Kaning feel significant. As they were speaking about Gorya, for just a second, he seemed to reply with an honest answer rather than a flirty one, "trust your friend". I'm excited for more scenes with them.
Also, having just re-watched ep1-3 of HYD, I noticed that F4 made a change to bring Kaning to the party, which was a FANTASTIC choice to set up future interactions with the two characters. It is usually a weirdly forced pairing to me, in part because they don't usually interact enough.
I feel quite strongly that fiction sets the bar for what is accepted in society, and so there should never be acceptance for problematic fiction simply *because* it's fiction. That is, I believe problematic elements in fiction don't necessarily make it bad (depending on the story, the reason, the effect, etc), but I'll never agree that problematic elements are okay just because it's fiction and "it shouldn't be taken seriously anyway".
Fiction is hugely influential to us. When watching/reading fiction, we let the characters stand in as our proxies and we are affected by their decisions. There's research that suggests reading fiction is a major way for kids to learn empathy with others, for instance. So our fiction needs to understand that it also has a responsibility to us, and we need to expect more from our fiction than just entertainment. (hense why I am loving F4 so much)
When MJ tells him to cancel the red card, he hesitates and looks like he'll agree but then he thinks of his mother.
When Hana is about to have her head shaved, Thymes face looks disgusted (and he pushes the guy who's going to do it into the water later too... probably venting his dislike)
When Gorya enters to save Hana, his eyes flash.
When Ren comes and stops Gorya, he is obviously relieved.
Even when he cuts her shoe is a way for him to end it without getting violent. I think if Gorya had just backed down in that moment, Thyme would've said it was over after humiliating her.
Have you seen the kdrama version of that drama btw (called The Smile Has Left Your Eyes)? It stars Seo In Guk and Jung So Min and
*spoiler*
It's not incest
❤❤❤
On a story/character level (not a thematic one), here's a thought:
Thyme knows he's gone too far with Gorya's red card, but every time he tries to find a way to back out and end it, she defies him and won't give him the upper hand (she put the shoe on and kicked him with it, she refused his gifts and wouldn't apologize, she chose to shave her head rather than give in). These moments were way more powerful to me than in previous versions where the FL just hits and yells at the ML and gains his attention that way. Probably, because her defiance matches him. Every step he takes, she counters. Who knows how far they'd go if Ren didn't step in and break the tension.
To be honest, when I was 20 I was terrible at talking about shows and movies. I had a friend who used to gather a group for a movie night once a week. Everyone would discuss it afterwards and I barely ever had anything to say.
The key thing that held me back was being afraid I'd be "wrong" or sound silly trying to express myself. But I'm over that now. The only thing that really matters is reflection. Even if all you can focus on for something is just how it makes you feel, or what it reminds you of, it's still a good point of discussion. Especially if you have others willing to discuss the concept with you, so you can explore and deepen your thoughts about it.
This thread was just me throwing out a random point of discussion that I was interested in to see if anyone wanted to pick it up, and luckily for me, the comments are super thoughtful and insightful, and have pointed out things that have caused me to think deeper about it. I love that.
It's been about 10 years since those movie nights, by the way, and I'm still extremely grateful to that friend for helping me become open to these discussions in the first place. I hope you end up having a friend or internet stranger give you praise like you gave us sometime in your future too. :)
Like, I *guess* I can understand that BOF helped bring new watchers to Kdramas back in 2009 (cuz that's what they tell me lol), but there's no way I believe anyone can watch it in 2017 and not feel exactly like you did. hahaha.
I noticed the name when I was looking to see if anyone else was watching F4 over there
I've mentioned this to you before (and this thread works really well to show you what I mean by it) but it really is okay to have deeper discussions about things. Discussing something does not mean dissing it, and unthinkingly praising something is just as it sounds...unthinking.
You clearly love HYD and all versions of the story, so it seems to me like you will ENJOY thinking more about them, if you let yourself.
It's like, the sucking void of love that is Tsukasa's mother has not just left our ML emotionally stunted, but also left him seeking mother stand-ins to fill that primal need.
Where his sister is his sister (no romance) and Shizuka is like an older sister since childhood (no romance), with Makino, he feels the same sort of "smell" (like the sister says) but confuses it for romantic feelings.
It's like the phenomenon of misattributing the reason for a thumping heart... they say you should take a date on a roller coaster because when their heart is beating wildly and they look at you, the feeling of fear/adrenaline will be mistaken for feelings of love.
This helps explain why he is so desperate in the beginning, when there's no real reason to believe he truly loves her yet. He doesn't even really KNOW her yet, so it's all projection in the early stages anyway, this is just the set up that gets him there.
Or, at least that's how I ran with what you were saying lol
They are pretty blatant that Tsukasa only falls for Makino because he was a weird sister-complex and, as his sister tells Tsukushi, they “have the same smell” (that is, they treat Tsukasa the same way).
I really never understood the set-up of a romantic connection that begins with liking her cuz she beats him up like his sister.
Not cool lol
Also, when Gorya caught the flower, I totally though, "wow, she's good at catching things". She also caught the car key in ep2 lol
I'm more of a "watch as the thing hits the floor and pick it up after" kind of person