AleksandraSucur

Oh, tnx, I didn't connect "Jiu" with 9. I've ruled him out exactly bc he was Zeng Guofan's bro and responsible for the Nanjing massacre (Zeng the Butcher). He indeed served as viceroy of Liangjiang but 2 decades later (1884).

I was initially sceptical about the role of her character in this story, it looked unrealistic how freely she moved with 300 horses across half of China to be delivered to the rebels or her disguise as servant at prince Gong's mansion during the tea competition in order to poison Cixi... Her dangerous, arrogant and unpredictable actions somehow didn't match the description LWT gave to LQ about her: "the smartest person I've ever met..." and that her dealings with people always meet what the other person desires the most and cannot refuse the deal with her. Later I've thought she is just functional for story-telling, bc she often provides "enlightments" on the background of certain issues and persons. But now I think it was just a prejudice in my head to connect smartness with modesty and caution. In real life actually there are very smart persons who are arrogant and unpredictable in their speech and action. That means I've started to see this character believable, realistic.

That business was sunked by Li Qin's father. Go back to ep 5 to the dialogue LQ and LWT had in the family vault, before LQ departing...

Thank you for such a huge compliment. Actually, I'm a European (so, a foreigner as well), I'm just completely thrilled by this drama that's why I write so many comments, lol.
It touches practically all my weak points:
- I love a well-told interesting story
- I love history (actually, I've studied the history of warfare, the contemporary history of Asian countries and although the latter only superficialy addresses the reasons of the downfall of Qing, I've passionately researched Cixi's life and regency on my own...)
- I love to travel, so I love its stunning visuals of different parts of China, I feel like I am traveling, feeling a joy of learning a lot about the unknown places I see. With this story, we space- and time-traveled from Ningguta, historical harsh NE place for exiled people to today's UNESCO protected Pingyao at the moment first draft banks started to flourish in it, incredibly enriching this town (and turning it to a financial heart of the empire) and Shanxi province, then to Mongolian grasslands... We enjoyed stunning views of tea planted Anhui hills, saw Hefei's fortification distruction, went to Beijing, crossed the border on Amur river and went to the Russian region some Chinese still consider "theirs" being this region "Manchurian homeland", ceded to the Russian empire under the "unequal treaties" and a slap to the Qing court. We've seen Shanghai's port when it started to take over the role Guangzhou had till the cession of Hong Kong to the UK (always under the unequal treaties) of the main export-import hub. And now we are on the boat on Yangtze river directed to Nanjing, another place of enormous historical and spacial importance.
- I love the seventh art (extended to dramaworld) in general but feel frustrated by the Western and in particular European incapacity to tell compelling, epic and - for humakind - truly important stories, independently of their genre. Asian movies and dramas also greatly fail to satisfy such a high requirement of mine but occasionally they succeed making me feel so... thrilled. 😌

complete anti-talent in "reading the room", lol

This drama is waaay more engaging and better paced than This Thriving Land. TTL initial eps were interesting and engaging as well, but at a certain point the pace was lost, I've put it on hold after 9 eps.
Tnx for giving us these infos

Ms Su is so arrogant that can't fall in love with anybody else but herself. Dangerous and vindictive, hardly any man will fall her, either (remember GPY-Li Qin guys' talk at Ningguta about her?). But we somehow like (or better, admire) her despite her being a b**ch, because she is smart, informed and... extremely intuitive (she even smelled smth fishy about LWT relationship with GPY), capable and committed to her goal of distrupting the imperial court/palace in every possible way.

Ms Su, talking about Marshal Jiu: "he isn't even qualified to wash my feet".
Now we know why she is so arrogant and so well informed about the politics: being "qualified" to enter the Palace at the age of 12 (destined to become a consort to the emperor) means she belongs to the Manchu's high nobility, as the emperor could marry (as consorts) only members of high (Manchu or integrated Mongol) noble clans. A marshal (being a Han, thus viewed as of "servile mentality" by the Manchus' nobility) is barely qualified to serve her, independantly of how powerful he is. And this marshal Jiu is really powerful: certainly not because he is showered with titles, privileges and important imperial tasks but because he possesses his own army of soldiers who serve under the principle "army belongs to a general" (a precursor to the later warlordism and fragmentation of the central power). The disruptive potential of decentralized powers is the reason why she supports him without joining "his forces" as she said to GPY.
Searching among possible persons who might have inspired Marshal Jiu's character, Li Hongchang matches fictional Jiu character the most, having Li HC been a stand-in for Zeng Guofan as provincial governor of Jiangsu and viceroy of Liangjiang in 1865-1866 period. The author split the historical character in two fictional: Marshal Jiu and Rui Lin (governor of Liangjiang in the drama). Although there was a real historical person (a minister of interior) at the time named Rui Lin, this real person had no connections with the area or with the administration of 7 provinces of Liangjiang devastated by the civil war with Taiping. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li_Hongzhang

Truly memorable

The key for understanding this whole tea sale is in GPY's first question to the captain of the warship: "do you sell this ship?"
Ofc he knew such a ship is not for sale, but he asked such an apparently stupid question (even his stupid bro understood it was stupid) to convey another meaning: "I am here to buy smth from you, captain". The things he "bought" from the captain are: 1. transportation service of tea to India 2. the persuasion power of the British flag and the dissuasion power of that big black cannon on the board. Why? Bc. these "suasion tools" are necessary and sufficient to put down the weakened power of the imperial court and Qing's institutions. In history, it was called "the gunpowder diplomacy". Prince Gong (who btw. personally signed the unequal treaties with Western powers + Japan representing the Qing during Xianfeng's reign) established that Foreign Trade Office in Shanghai in order to milk money from the export fee on goods traded towards these countries through LWT, appointed with exclusive right to negotiate tea export deals with foreign trade companies, such as East India Company (and LWT was concluding such deals with EIC agent Mr. Richard generously bribing the latter). But GPY is too smart not to understand that under the unequal treaties, no foreigner can be prosecuted by Qing's institutions. That's why he won the argument against Mr. Hart on the ship (a genial dialogue): "British captain bought privately the Anhui tea and will transport it privately to his home in India. If you think he violated the law, bring him to the court, I have nothing to do with it", knowing Mr Hart, as a head of customs office had no power to do such a thing.
Transaction papers in the deal were: purchase agreement between Anhui Tea Ass. and Shanxi Merchant Association (GPY is the nominal "head" of), which ceded it to Mr. Li (one of the 8 families and the biggest tea merchant in the North) who asked (pigeon message) his buddy Mr. Wu (silk merchant of 8 families) to pay Anhui Tea Ass. with "silver bullion" (ie., with legally issued money). As a tea merchant, experienced in selling it even abroad ("in the North" probably includes Qing's protectorate and tributary countries), Mr. Li then made a fictional "private" agreement with the captain making him a nominal owner to pass the costums controls and then embarked onto the ship in order to sell it in India. Once sold there, captain will receive a generous dividend deriving from much higher price there in comparison to the tea price in China and be a rich man.
The entire (brillianty written with brilliant details) scene at Foreign Trade Office was made to expose the weakness of the Qing institutions, not only in front of the foreigners (they can't prosecute) but also in front of the rising local (provincial) powers of the businessmen (able to buy the offices in order to enjoy official privileges and exemptions, like Mr. Wu).
And ofc. to show how GPY's brilliant idea to borrow the power of the "gunpowder diplomacy" (= "the foreigners") works in practice

I am truly humbled ❤️❤️❤️

you're totally right.
But the ML wouldn't be GPY we know if he haven't had someone like his brother to protect and help him grow up.
Thinking about the real life, I personally function way better when taking care/protecting other people, especially those who have no clue, like Ping Wen

I also didn't figure it out, just noticed, as a person who notice numbers...

me too, lol, 👍

the algorithm counts even the drop of initial 19 votes per ep to 3 per ep, no matter the vote is higher, it will downrate it, bc, it counts the missing ones as people who don't watch it any more. And ofc., many people who've tried, decided not to watch any more and dropped, they are into romances whatever... so that's it for the algorithm.
But don't worry, the final verdict of votes is what counts MORE, the votes expressed are less than the 11th share of the viewers (and whose overall number actually rises), I personally never rated a drama before it ended or I've dropped it somewhere around the ending

I actually feel the same about him as you, from the first moment I've seen him: omg, this bro is so frustrating.
But, such characters are necessary and functional for the pacing

I've also feared the plot hole when he gave them the recipe for Orchid Snow: I've expected the association would betray him and sell the tea to LWT. But the author smartly used this detail to rise the tension and our expectation in a bad exit of the whole "best tea under heavens" adventure, keeping us at the edge of our seats till the last moment.
Translated: whether he knew the tea association or forgotten how their mind can work or how much they can be scared during his exile years is irrelevant. He didn't make a deal with all the members of the association. He made a deal with their chief. He passed the honorary plaque to the association and gave them the receipe how to produce a pro version of the tea they were growning without asking anything for himself, without asking any change in their associative structure. Just by accepting these 3 things, they've OWNED him and if he asked for backing (actually, he asked foor just a day more), they could not say no any more. The association chief understood this, as well as he understood GPY is not a fool and has other "backers"

We felt so bc. we didn't know ALL the front(wo)men of 8 families, how strong and capable they really are. This master Wu is for the export of silk a sort of pendant for what Li wannabe for the tea export, but there's a huge difference between them in: 1. how they do business, 2. what is their backing 3. how they relate with people they deal with.
8 families people: 1. mind not to enrich only themselves but also their business partners, care a lot about each other, of talents like GPY and of the overall "wealth of the nation" 2. instilled sense of order, fair-trade, honour... values in general. Tend to avoid conflicts with authorities, but have no problems to deal with them, their ancestors fought (and robbed, lol) the Mings, why would they fear the Qings? 3. they treat people as they deserve. Fairly towards fair people, united in scheming against people who are not.
LWT: 1. cares only about himself. In competition even with his own son(s), sees the world only through the lenses of utilitarism. If his counterpart is in trouble, instead of providing help, he'll help to accelerate his demise. 2. Just Prince Gong. He has no family background or any other durable relationship except Ms. Su, who seems to be a daughter of his "backer" before Prince Gong - this relationship stands bc. they both cover for each other... a kind of relation that may blow up in any moment 3. in general, he treats people like sh*t, a servitude to carry on his plans, being himself servile to the power person he follows like a dog

yeah, Jack Sparrow of all trades. Jack is a magnate of all trades and Sparrow is a magnet for all kind of troubles. 😂

If anybody wonders why the Foreign Trade Office chief couldn't order GPY to be punished with lashes... as a "sort of official" (ie. being appointed by Dowager Empress to a service of public interest), he was exempted from corporal punishments: if a person who detained public office was found guilty of certain crime or trasgression, the penalty (measured in number of blows to be inflicted) ought to be substituted with pecuniary fine (eg. 10 lashes were substituted with an amount corresponding to 1 month salary). This peculiar law disposition originated from the exemptions granted to Manchu military and civil officers (immediately extended to Mongol officers operating under the 8 Banners, then included Han officers part of the Banners' system before it was finally extended to all officials)

Mr. Hart is not only proficient in Mandarin but is also an expert in the Qing Code. I wonder if such a high ranking Qing official of Western origin really existed in history. If you know smth., pls,. let me know. Btw., the actor is excellent, pity this messy MDL cast list doesn't even mention him.