Katepl

Just found this drama and binge watched the first 6 episodes and they're unexpectedly very good! At first, I thought it was going to be a typical school mystery mainly for teenagers or early 20's, but later episodes actually attempt to ask difficult/uncomfortable questions (I say "attempt" because the episodes are too short to go into depth) like trust (who can you really trust? Family? Media? Legal system?), truth (Do we always know the whole truth? If we believe something to be 100% true, does that then become the truth?), image, prejudice (don't most of us judge someone's credibility/honesty based on their image and label? Once a "liar", always a liar?), mind (can we really trust our own mind/judgement/version of the truth?) etc. Looking forward to the last episodes.

Yeah, I really liked the final scene as that corresponds to the cover of the manga. When Togawa leaned over with his spoon towards Nozue, I was like omg, that's totally the cover! Awww, I thought that was a nice touch.

Aggressive??? Where? Didn’t you see my ??! as a “lol joke” tongue in cheek kind of thing? Obviously you can’t hear the tone online and I just thought I’d correct it as it’s an important/serious issue and there’s a huge difference between a Supreme court and a district one (not just a word) Wasn’t expecting you to take it so defensively. Didn’t mean to offend you!

FYI, it wasn't the Japanese Supreme Court (where did you read such misinformation??!), it was a district court in Osaka and they didn't uphold the ban on gay marriage as a district court has no such power like that. The LGBTQ+ community in Osaka argued that banning same sex marriage is unconstitutional but the Osaka court ruled it was "not unconstitutional" but they have no final say. On the other hand, the Sapporo court ruled it was indeed "unconstitutional" two years ago, but again they have no final say.

Japan has a long way to go and they only just started including LGBTQ+ awareness in their sex education curriculum at schools last year. Better late than never, but I feel like it will at least take 10+ years for Japan to legalise same sex marriage. I hope I’m wrong and it will come sooner but not holding my breath.

Yeah but the drama is written from his perspective, so we got to see everything through his eyes, so we got to know him much more than Sanada. Who knows what she was like at home when she was alone. Also it’s not addressed in the drama, but she may well have been autistic from the way she talks and acts. We just didn’t get to know her that well. Maybe they should’ve done an episode on her from her perspective. Who knows.

She was only 9/10? so I don’t think it’s that weird. Who else could she have gone to? A child's world is small normally and she wouldn’t have risked going to her parents directly (good chance that might result in a divorce which she didn’t want), and she certainly wouldn’t have gone to another adult (outsider) to reveal a “family secret”. In her mind Yoshino needed to go away plus her parents’ marriage needed to be fixed so that her dad especially would start caring and taking an interest in her family. So she decided to ask Yoshino who was a policeman like her dad and his superior. She probably thought he would feel guilty and help her in fixing her parents’ marriage. I can see how that would make sense to a 10 year old.

Yoshino (the police chief) was having an affair with Aki (Todo's wife and Koharu's mother). Koharu happened to see them together one day and took an incriminating picture on her phone. She confronted Yoshino and asked him to leave her mother alone because she didn't want the family to split up. But she also knew that her father, Todo, was indifferent towards the family, always working and didn't get involved in her life at all, so she wanted to punish him and make him come to his senses, so she asked Yoshino to kidnap her. She trusted him because he was the police. Yoshino of course didn't go along with it, but tried to snatch her phone forcefully to delete the picture. It turned into a struggle and Koharu ended up falling down a big flight of stairs and died. Yoshino then decided to stage a kidnapping based on Koharu's idea to cover up her death. The police blamed the mother for Koharu's disappearance and the case was promptly closed just as Yoshino had planned. That would’ve been the end of it and Yoshino would've got away it, had it not been for Todo who never gave up looking for his daughter.

I think after episode 8 and 9, many of us guessed that it was Yoshino. They made it too obvious, so that was a disappointing reveal. Kept waiting for a final twist even like an accomplice, but there wasn't any. I thought there might be a connection to the accident Todo and Miwa were involved in years ago (I think that was mentioned in an earlier episode iirc), but I guess it was a red herring.

Yes, I had the same thought. My take on it was that they didn't end up together because loving someone sometimes involves letting them go as well so that they can spread their wings and follow a path they feel is right (not confine them or limit their potential). I thought it was refreshing for a change to have FL who's ambitious and wants a career. I got used to watching female characters drop everything and sacrifice a lot for a man (cliche of all clliches) that I personally liked the ending.

Sanada was always interested in research and tried hard to find her footing in that field but couldn't because of a lack of confidence. But she met Maruya and he made her see that she was more than capable and she could create a sense of belonging anywhere all by herself. She was finally able to accept her past and herself just the way she was. So, it was really no surprise that a big opportunity for her to go abroad and get into the field of her dreams came along and she took it. She would've been miserable if she'd stayed and forced herself to be confined to the sales department just so that she could be with a man. Maruya wouldn't have wanted that for her either. I mean, not everyone's definition of happiness is to be married with children!

Poor Koharu. RIP. Poor Todo as well. Everything he did and sacrificed for was all for nothing... Well, maybe not for nothing, because he at least knows the truth now but how miserable. I really loved the way the director juxtaposed the birth scene with the prison scene. It was beautifully done contrasting life and death, light and dark, happiness and misery/cruelty. When you're experiencing happiness, there's always someone going through much worse somewhere in the world and vice versa.

Yeah, I enjoyed it overall as well, but it was just ridiculous that he was so against physical intimacy with someone he's supposedly in love with that he had to run off and they didn't even explain why (past trauma, for example). Even more disappointing to find out that they changed the scene from the original manga, smh.

I see the BL genre and the LGBTQ+ genre as two totally separate genres, so that's why I don't mix the two, otherwise, I'd just end up being frustrated and annoyed all the time. I mean BL is written by straight women for straight women, and at its core, it's about fetishising gay sex/romance and nothing to do with representing or celebrating homosexuality (this is just my opinion). I know BL has raised some awareness and has had some positive impact on the LGBTQ+ community, which is fantastic, but it's still full of internalised homophobia and the worst part is, I don't think people involved in making a BL drama are even aware of it or they don't care about it enough, so instead of highlighting how damaging internalised homophobia is and something that's totally wrong/immoral, it's often depicted as "normal" as if "there's nothing wrong with it". At least that's the feeling/impression I get whenever I watch a BL drama. I'm used to watching films/dramas from UK, Europe, USA with proper representation of the LGBTQ+ community, so I notice the difference right away. I just finished watching Conversations with Friends, for example, and the lesbian/bi couple was great in that. Anyway, this is just my opinion.

I agree. Japan is conservative but not to the point where actors' reputation/livelihood are at stake or filming a BL drama is such a milestone. I don't know where people are getting that kind of info from! lol So many mainstream actors and actresses have starred in a BL or LGBTQ+ films/dramas in Japan over the years that it's not really a big deal anymore and their careers haven't suffered, if anything, it has helped them. Things are changing slowly but surely.

So, I definitely agree that it feels like doing a BL drama is now becoming more and more like a quick money making scheme without any depth... I really hope Japan won't ruin its own BL genre by doing this kind of drama (cute but pointless with a hint of internalised heterosexism and queer baiting thrown in) one after the other. It felt like the whole production team was purposefully avoiding a kiss scene. I know I'm not supposed to watch a BL drama through a LGBTQ+ lens, but still there are so many things I have a lot to say on, but won't! lol

I enjoyed it but I feel like this should've been a 6 episode series and not 8. Too many flashbacks and unnecessary filler scenes that go absolutely nowhere. It's definitely a drama where you put it on in the background(if you understand the language) whilst you do cleaning, cooking, and not take it seriously!

But whatever you think the drama should’ve done, what you described is not lost to those of us who don’t know the original though. I was talking about the overall context and you seem to be talking about details.

Of course Hira has a low self esteem, that’s a part of being dysfunctional. It’s also very clear that he doesn’t “see” Kiyoi but puts him on a pedestal. Why else would he be willing to be treated like a "slave" and take pleasure in it? There was a scene where he described Kiyoi as a god in episode 3? as well, he often calls him "sacred/precious" and also in episode 5, Kiyoi describes Hira like someone obsessed in a cult or something like that, so that point is not lost either. Don’t worry! Hira is also very “autistic” in the drama in the way he interacts with people and especially when it comes to Kiyoi, he can’t seem to read him at all, that's obviously because he thinks someone like Kiyoi can't possibly be interested in him, which he actually says in the drama, so again your point is already conveyed well. I'm not sure if Kiyoi is "much healthier and normal" as you put it, I think they're just as flawed as each other. Kiyoi clearly has his own issues from his childhood which we see in episode 5.

Just because a drama has an original work doesn’t mean that it has to follow it step by step. Why insist on a drama being a certain way? All I’m saying is that for those of us who don’t know the original, we don’t see anything wrong with it and enjoy watching it. I personally love Hira and Kiyoi and the fact that there's a world only they can get.

I don’t know anything about the original work, so I have a different perspective and if it’s any consolation, it’s already very and I mean very clear how flawed Hira is and the Koyama storyline actually helps a lot to highlight how damaged Hira is.

Here is a “normal” guy like Koyama who is nice and understanding, communicates well and doesn’t treat Hira like shit calling him “creepy” and “disgusting”, yet Hira isn’t remotely interested. He’d rather be with Kiyoi who isn’t nice to him at all and is the complete opposite of Koyama. I mean if that doesn’t scream dysfunctional, then what does? Maybe you all got desensitised by Kiyoi but let’s face it he’s toxic, codependent and in reality he’d be a terrible partner (yes he has his "reasons" and why he's the way he is, but he needs therapy on his issues from a detached third person's view). Only another toxic and codependent person would be drawn to someone like that because that’s what’s familiar and “comfortable”.

If we didn’t have the interactions between Koyama and Hira to show the contrast and how Hira is addicted to Kiyoi like a drug even in the presence of a nice guy like Koyama, this drama would just end up being too “fetishy” for people who like watching handsome guys being toxic to each other. I mean I know there are many into that kind of thing but that’s another story lol

The amount of Kiyoi’s perspective is good as is imo. It’s just going over what we watched from episodes 1-4, albeit from a different viewpoint but any more would just feel too repetitive. I was already thinking there are too many “repeats” from before watching episode 5 and that’s me without knowing anything about the original, so I’m sure there are others like me who feel the same way. I wish they’d included a few different scenes we hadn’t seen before but from Kiyoi’s perspective tbh.

Whatever they didn’t put in the drama from the original, if you don’t know it, you don’t know it and it’s perfectly fine. As long as you’re not an idiot who’s been living under a rock, you’d get it. It’s not like they’re dealing with something outrageously complex. Dysfunctional people are everywhere , it’s really not hard to understand this drama without the input of the original.

Totally agree as well! IMO, Kiyoi was clearly waiting for a confession when he says to Hira something like "don't you have something you wanna say to me?" When it wasn't forthcoming he goes into his usual sulky mood lol and tries to leave, but then Hira stops him and tries so hard to say something through his mumbling. You can see from the look in Kiyoi's eyes that he's thinking that's the most adorable thing he's ever seen and wants to kiss Hira there and then, so he goes for it, but then in a split second, he's back to his "usual self" and he's like "why should I be the one to make the first move?", "look what you made me do!" and throws Hira down to the ground (complicated/contrary much lol). I feel like that's why we get the wobbly camera work to show his fluctuating emotions.

I thought the shadow of two poles on the wall was a nice touch as well. The one on Kiyoi's side is leaning against the other, also showing Kiyoi's state of mind and the dynamic of their relationship at that particular moment, yet it's held back like a shadow.

:-)

Loving the series so much! All the main cast, apart from Fukushi Sota, are excellent. Sorry to any Fukushi Sota fans, but he can't seem to fully embody his character no matter what. I'm always aware that it's Fukushi Sota himself reading the lines. Anyway, love the way it's been shot and especially the use of colours is right up my street!

Oh, seems what I call a "MDL trend" has cropped up again lol. Ever since I joined MDL last year, two things have always baffled me to no end, because I haven't encountered these types of thinking in general where I'm from in UK...

1) why there's a trend on here to be so black and white and any grey areas in life are ignored or treated as irrelevant. Always genuinely puzzled by this.

2) why many think that a drama or film has to be morally upright. In UK and I suppose in most of Europe, a drama is just a drama. It's a form of entertainment. Nothing more, nothing less. Yes, it can have a message, but that message is taken as just an "opinion" by a screenwriter/producer/director and NOT the be all and end all of lessons in morality or anything. If a drama/film attempts to influence your way of life, way of thinking, tells you what to do etc. that's propaganda. Don't buy into it. Learn to think for yourself! At least in UK, it's not up to a drama or film to teach us about what's right and wrong. It's just entertainment and a creative outlet.

Joining MDL has definitely opened my eyes to a world I didn't know existed. It's like do we even live on the same planet... Maybe we don't! lol

No, I haven't read the manga but I have read a couple of interviews with the author/manga artist and her intention wasn't just to write a light hearted romantic comedy AT ALL! She had so many meaningful social messages she wanted to convey that I feel sorry for her if her manga is coming across as just a fluffy romance with no depth! That's a big failure as a writer, if you ask me... I did hear that a manga wasn't that great from some people, so I guess they were right. No wonder she had to self publish. The screenwriter and director are doing a fantastic job then to convey the manga artist's original intent and messages in that case.

But is it though? This drama is not just a romantic comedy but so much more, especially about looking past the surface and not judging people straightaway. Hachiko has her "reasons" and even though those "reasons" may be unreasonable to an outsider, to Hachiko, they're "valid". She represents the "mentally/emotionally disabled" among us, they may seem "normal" from the outside, because unlike Yukiko, those who are mentally damaged don't carry a white cane or aren't in a wheelchair, but they're anything but ok. They need help and care as much as the physically disabled but are judged far more harshly and quick to be dismissed as just "another rude/weird person with a bad personality" further driving them into isolation and self destruction. They need therapy at the very least.

It's clear that the drama is about a variety of characters on the fringes of society with their own past, struggles and pain and "asking" viewers to look beyond the surface and question "are they really who they seem?", "what made them the way they are" before judging them, but I guess the majority just want a fluffy romance with no depth nowadays... lol Well, it clearly shows we need more mental health awareness and understanding in our society at least, that's for sure, if all people got was an annoying love triangle...