Just discovered Kim Hae Sook in this drama, and I didn't realize she has played so many characters in movies/drama's I've watched. What an amazing actress, she nailed it out of the park for her portrayal of Grandma in Start Up.
People's opinion will differ. Majority of people disliked it.Minority of people loved it.So after watching, you…
It's hard to say really. For the most part I don't really want to judge what people like or don't like. All I know is that there will always be people that love shows like Start Up and TKEM. What you and I may find cringy, others will find super sweet. And yes, it's certainly possible that some of this adulation for these shows are tainted with Actor/Actress bias, but as TKEM and Start Up has shown, those type of fans are slowly disappearing as the overall standards, expectations, and maturity of Kdrama audiences are on the rise, and if writers/directors don't change with the Kdrama Meta, they will continue to see negative blowback. Issues such as racism, sexism, and abusive relationship in Kdrama are already seeing blowback internationally and domestically. In fact one of the show I am watching now, Bling Empire, is already experiencing this.
I've explained this in some of my other post. A lot of the international fans you are seeing now who are starting to pick up Kdrama in the past decade or so, has had an ever changing adaptation to their taste. The audience maturity is evolving as the years pass by, and several amazing shows have come out in the past decade that has made audiences expectations for show much higher than decades past. Couple that with some really good shows on streaming sites like Netflix, and the audience expectation of a good show has never been higher. More and more audiences will no longer stand for poorly written plot, lazy writing, and the romanticizing of toxic subject matters.
You see at the start of the Hallyu Wave of Kdrama, western shows, for the most part, had not much depth. Western shows in the 90's were really more about production values, meaning a nice set, explosions, steamy scenes and etc.. Except for a few shows, there was not much emphasis on a more conservative romance, family values, and slow burn romance. Kdrama on the other hand at this time, didn't have the huge budget western shows had, so they had to rely on great acting, strong plot, and a gripping love story to keep the audience glued to their seat. And for the most part it worked, and that's when the hallyu wave began.
The problem is, in the need to bring up kdrama up there in production values compared to western shows, the producers are forgetting what made Kdrama so popular back in the day. So instead of great acting, strong plot, and a gripping love story, modern Kdrama's new formula has been replaced by Strong Visuals, High Production Value, and Hype. And so we get Start Up, which I think most will agree has great production value, nice visuals, and hype.
So unfortunately, there are still people in the kdrama watching audience who like the modern formula. Look no further than reading their review. They will say things like.
1. Oh the main couple looks so good together. 2. The production value is insane, and the cinematography is amazing. 3. OMG, it's Suzy and NJH, they are so amazing! Plus the writer is PHR, she wrote while you were sleeping, this is a sure hit. 4. Suzy looks so beautiful in her clothes in Start Up 5. The OST is amazing!
As you can see, there is less talk about the plot, love story, and the great acting, because some audience just accept whatever the writer/producers gives them. Also some people are such huge fans of the celebrity, that whatever the product being shown, they will just accept it.
MDL has lost quite a bit of credibility with how the ratings have fluctuated in the past few months, that I can't take any of the ratings seriously any more. The ratings on here are more of a guide than anything. Plus MDL has always been highly skewed since i've been here, there are never any shows that are rated below 5/10, no matter how bad the shows are. Which leads me to believe that most people rating on MDL, generously rate, regardless of how bad they think a show is. Just look at the reviews, some of them, pretty much bring up so many negative things about the show, but still rate it 8/10. So for some people 8/10 is considered not good.
So the 8.1/10 we see as the aggregate is probably not that great. There is a difference between hating a show, and finding a show bad but watchable.
I personally think Start Up is watchable because of KSH. Incredibly frustrating, and torturous, but still watchable. And for that I rated it a 6. I would never rewatch it though, as one torturous sitting is enough for me. What kept me watching episode after episode was not the amazing plot, but the faith I had that HJP would have a good ending.
People's opinion will differ. Majority of people disliked it.Minority of people loved it.So after watching, you…
Not just here my friend, but outside MDL as well. On online polls, most people preferred HJP as the ML, and felt that SDM should have ended with him. I don't quite agree, as I thought HJP could have done better, but that's what the masses think. One online poll even had a 80%-20% slant towards HJP across 40k votes.
Also, In Korea, the ratings barely cracked the 5% mark, and even started dropping in the last few episodes. And in terms of overall viewership, Start Up isn't even as hyped or as popular as TKEM, who has substantially more watchers and reviewers.
This show, shares similarities with TKEM, where people like yourself were claiming masterpiece, while the so called "Vocal" people disliked it, and look where TKEM is rated? right where Start Up is rated. Articles actually came out how TKEM is considered a miss for writer KES.
I mean I can pull up more logical facts, parallels, and etc... But I know you don't care about those things.
I got to admit though, your trolling technique is quite good. There was this other troll that just went full on rampage, and was only semi-entertaining. At least with you, I can tell you put in the effort, and I have to respect that.
Also, if 60% people rated it high, shouldn't the top reviews, and the one people found most helpful, are the ones rating it 10/10? Just curious on the reasoning here.
But I do agree, regardless of the comments and reviews, it's worth a watch. I think for the most part, after ep. 3-4 you can decide if your going to like it or not.
I've finally decided to give this drama a try, is it actually good though? the reviews are really tough and I…
People's opinion will differ.
Majority of people disliked it.
Minority of people loved it.
So after watching, you will either be part of the majority or the minority.
And that is ok, because in the end of the day you will form an opinion on the show, and if you choose to post here after watching, we will gladly discuss things with you regardless if your in the majority or minority.
I think for the most part, there will always be someone better for any role, because there are tons of great actors/actresses…
Yeah, Asians are really one of the most discriminatory people in the world.
There is discriminations on the following things off the top of my head:
1. Skin color 2. Education (which university, presence of masters degree and etc...) 3. Where you live. 4. Wealth 5. Whether you are an American Born asian or a local one. 6. Mixed race marriages 7. Which last name you have 8. Which village you hail from 9. Your social circle 10. Looks 11. Height 12. Gender
And the list goes on and on. It's a pretty judgmental culture, LOL! But yeah, skin color is a pretty big one in Asia unfortunately. You'd be surprised at the number whitening stuff they have here.
To jisoo fans please stop giving false information, Kim Hye Yoon never auditioned for the lead role, she was personally…
Eh, it doesn't matter to be honest. Drama isn't even airing yet, it's all manufactured drama in the comment section, and it's entertaining to read at least, LOL!
A long conversation has made me want to clarify something. The reason why the letters count in favour of Jidal…
Well, that is because Start Up's source material is Cyrano De Bergerac.
In Cyrano, there is a distance between Cyrano and Roxanne, that is represented by Cyrano's Nose and his looks, which blocks him from being honest, and professing his love to her. So Cyrano denies his feelings for her. Cyrano has known Roxanne for a long time, and has fallen in love not with just her beauty, but her personality as well.
Enter Christian, a handsome man, with a beautiful nose, but he is a dunce. He falls in love with Roxanne's beauty and ask Cyrano for help. Cyrano then, subconsciously or consciously, tells Roxanne the words and feelings he has always been ashamed to tell her through the mouth of Christian.
In the end, Christian serves as the man who allowed Cyrano to overcome his self-esteem issues about his looks and nose. Christian also let's Roxanne overcome her shallow attraction to Christian to realize that she actually loves the personality of Cyrano, regardless of his physical imperfections.
In Start Up, there is a distance between HJP and SDM, that is represented by HJP's inability to see himself being loved by anyone. Because of his past, HJP feels he is not deserving of love, and has ran away from it due to his shame. So HJP ignores his feelings for SDM. HJP knows SDM for a long time, and knows her history, and personality, and knows the things she needs before she even thinks about it.
Enter NDS, a handsome man, with a genius intellect. He falls for SDM's beauty, and he and HJP enter into this web of lies that would allow him to be with SDM. NDS then uses the letters HJP write (via imposter syndrome), and the ideology of a fake NDS as his way to get close to SDM.
Then, there is the change in the script, where Roxanne actually likes the current Christian, rather than the ideology of a Cyrano, showing that shallow attraction was more important to her. Which is what happened in Start Up.
Looks like you've missed tons of comments, since Ep. 9 and 10. Majority of HJP fans are actually happy he did…
Honestly, making NDS a genius was so unnecessary. It barely reared it's head, and when it did, the scenes fell flat for me. All it did was give him a superpower he did not really need. I guess the writer thought by making him a genius it would explain all the success, or deux ex machine devices, but it did not have the desired results IMO.
I also felt the love of NDS for SDM was far stronger than her love for him. I know the writer tried to show in the last few episodes this was not the case, but their lack of chemistry in most parts of the show, just didn't do it for me, and it all felt forced near the end.
HJP and WIJ presence in the show was detrimental to both SDM and NDS. The main reason for this is the gap in maturity between SDM and WIJ, and HJP and NDS. When audience are watching these characters, they are not thinking of they have 10-15 years age difference, that is why there is a big difference in maturity. No, people are watching as if they are all similar or same age. And so it leaves a dilemma where if the show didn't have HJP and WIJ in the scenario, then NDS and SDM's characterization would be more acceptable, since everyone young in the show was quite immature, starting from morning group's son, saha, yong san, cheul san and etc... But because the writer wrote two mature characters in WIJ and HJP who aligned with most audience maturity level, NDS and SDM started to look quite immature in comparison. That was a mistake by the writer, she allowed her Main Leads to be overshadowed by more mature and stronger characters in WIJ and HJP.
Yeah, SDM wanted a guy who was at her beck and call, and would bend over for everything she wanted. What a healthy relationship, LOL! That concept of their relationship has always bothered me, because it's a relationship with a power imbalance. Question is for how long would NDS have bent over like that? Would it be for life, or would he eventually grow a spine, then the conflicts will start? It also bothered me, how neither of them bothered to learn ANYTHING personal about each other. It was such a hard relationship to understand.
I can understand falling for the idea of the letters, or the idea of a person. It's just so disappointing if this was the direction they were going for considering the show's source material is Cyrano. It was an insult to the source material for sure. Almost like seeing an adaptation of Romeo and Juliet where Juliet ends up with Count Paris.
Honestly, the whole HJP thing, and how he feels about the letter and SDM is quite confusing, you can debate both sides of the argument here, as the writing about the situation is not very clear. I would leave this plot point on it's own, we will never know. The more I think about these plot points, the more I realize the plot inconsistencies and plot holes...
Dany, dying a hero, maybe giving birth to Jon's son/daughter is a plot direction I can get behind. Dany, dying a villain, killed by Jon, I'm like WTF? I just can't. Oh yeah, I literally laughed at how Bran became the king! And I actually believe the book would do a better job of fleshing out Sansa's character so she would actually deserve being ruler of Winterfell. The show didn't show enough good sides of Sansa to show her being a good ruler.
It's true that the drama spent most of its time building up Dodal, but for a long time it had the potential to…
Oh yeah, your absolutely right. It's just the premise the writer started with, so audiences suspended disbelief and bought into it, only to be sold into some other storyline midway through the show.
It's similar to a LDR, because HJP and SDM through their letters, got to know each other. And HJP was putting pieces of himself in those letters.
That's the thing, SDM falling in love with letters well into her 20's was really quite absurd. But people bought into that belief, ONLY because they felt that SDM must be a girl who is REALLY sentimental, and REALLY believes in true love, and REALLY loved the person behind the letters. So when it turns out she was none of those things, it confused the audiences so much who only saw her as someone who is shallow. It was a tale of two SDM, the one in the first few episodes, and the one in the latter half, almost like she had a twin LOL!.
I don't really think a lot of people are still wishing the current SDM with HJP, she is a mere shell of what she was and could have been.
I haven't watched IONTBO, but I do like and prefer strong FL's over SDM's who needs NDS to constantly save them from literally everything.
I've explained this in some of my other post. A lot of the international fans you are seeing now who are starting to pick up Kdrama in the past decade or so, has had an ever changing adaptation to their taste. The audience maturity is evolving as the years pass by, and several amazing shows have come out in the past decade that has made audiences expectations for show much higher than decades past. Couple that with some really good shows on streaming sites like Netflix, and the audience expectation of a good show has never been higher. More and more audiences will no longer stand for poorly written plot, lazy writing, and the romanticizing of toxic subject matters.
You see at the start of the Hallyu Wave of Kdrama, western shows, for the most part, had not much depth. Western shows in the 90's were really more about production values, meaning a nice set, explosions, steamy scenes and etc.. Except for a few shows, there was not much emphasis on a more conservative romance, family values, and slow burn romance. Kdrama on the other hand at this time, didn't have the huge budget western shows had, so they had to rely on great acting, strong plot, and a gripping love story to keep the audience glued to their seat. And for the most part it worked, and that's when the hallyu wave began.
The problem is, in the need to bring up kdrama up there in production values compared to western shows, the producers are forgetting what made Kdrama so popular back in the day. So instead of great acting, strong plot, and a gripping love story, modern Kdrama's new formula has been replaced by Strong Visuals, High Production Value, and Hype. And so we get Start Up, which I think most will agree has great production value, nice visuals, and hype.
So unfortunately, there are still people in the kdrama watching audience who like the modern formula. Look no further than reading their review. They will say things like.
1. Oh the main couple looks so good together.
2. The production value is insane, and the cinematography is amazing.
3. OMG, it's Suzy and NJH, they are so amazing! Plus the writer is PHR, she wrote while you were sleeping, this is a sure hit.
4. Suzy looks so beautiful in her clothes in Start Up
5. The OST is amazing!
As you can see, there is less talk about the plot, love story, and the great acting, because some audience just accept whatever the writer/producers gives them. Also some people are such huge fans of the celebrity, that whatever the product being shown, they will just accept it.
MDL has lost quite a bit of credibility with how the ratings have fluctuated in the past few months, that I can't take any of the ratings seriously any more. The ratings on here are more of a guide than anything. Plus MDL has always been highly skewed since i've been here, there are never any shows that are rated below 5/10, no matter how bad the shows are. Which leads me to believe that most people rating on MDL, generously rate, regardless of how bad they think a show is. Just look at the reviews, some of them, pretty much bring up so many negative things about the show, but still rate it 8/10. So for some people 8/10 is considered not good.
So the 8.1/10 we see as the aggregate is probably not that great. There is a difference between hating a show, and finding a show bad but watchable.
I personally think Start Up is watchable because of KSH. Incredibly frustrating, and torturous, but still watchable. And for that I rated it a 6. I would never rewatch it though, as one torturous sitting is enough for me. What kept me watching episode after episode was not the amazing plot, but the faith I had that HJP would have a good ending.
I could not read some of the tweets as they move too fast.
Also, In Korea, the ratings barely cracked the 5% mark, and even started dropping in the last few episodes. And in terms of overall viewership, Start Up isn't even as hyped or as popular as TKEM, who has substantially more watchers and reviewers.
This show, shares similarities with TKEM, where people like yourself were claiming masterpiece, while the so called "Vocal" people disliked it, and look where TKEM is rated? right where Start Up is rated. Articles actually came out how TKEM is considered a miss for writer KES.
I mean I can pull up more logical facts, parallels, and etc... But I know you don't care about those things.
I got to admit though, your trolling technique is quite good. There was this other troll that just went full on rampage, and was only semi-entertaining. At least with you, I can tell you put in the effort, and I have to respect that.
Also, if 60% people rated it high, shouldn't the top reviews, and the one people found most helpful, are the ones rating it 10/10? Just curious on the reasoning here.
But I do agree, regardless of the comments and reviews, it's worth a watch. I think for the most part, after ep. 3-4 you can decide if your going to like it or not.
I'm not the biggest fan of BL, is the chef falling in love with the king?
Majority of people disliked it.
Minority of people loved it.
So after watching, you will either be part of the majority or the minority.
And that is ok, because in the end of the day you will form an opinion on the show, and if you choose to post here after watching, we will gladly discuss things with you regardless if your in the majority or minority.
Happy watching!
But then I realize they mashed two shows together, and NDS is actually Korean Mike Ross, and SDM is still Korean Penny.
So Start Up was essentially, Korean Penny, ending up with Korean Mike Ross.
LOL! does this make any sense at all!
There is discriminations on the following things off the top of my head:
1. Skin color
2. Education (which university, presence of masters degree and etc...)
3. Where you live.
4. Wealth
5. Whether you are an American Born asian or a local one.
6. Mixed race marriages
7. Which last name you have
8. Which village you hail from
9. Your social circle
10. Looks
11. Height
12. Gender
And the list goes on and on. It's a pretty judgmental culture, LOL! But yeah, skin color is a pretty big one in Asia unfortunately. You'd be surprised at the number whitening stuff they have here.
In Cyrano, there is a distance between Cyrano and Roxanne, that is represented by Cyrano's Nose and his looks, which blocks him from being honest, and professing his love to her. So Cyrano denies his feelings for her. Cyrano has known Roxanne for a long time, and has fallen in love not with just her beauty, but her personality as well.
Enter Christian, a handsome man, with a beautiful nose, but he is a dunce. He falls in love with Roxanne's beauty and ask Cyrano for help. Cyrano then, subconsciously or consciously, tells Roxanne the words and feelings he has always been ashamed to tell her through the mouth of Christian.
In the end, Christian serves as the man who allowed Cyrano to overcome his self-esteem issues about his looks and nose. Christian also let's Roxanne overcome her shallow attraction to Christian to realize that she actually loves the personality of Cyrano, regardless of his physical imperfections.
In Start Up, there is a distance between HJP and SDM, that is represented by HJP's inability to see himself being loved by anyone. Because of his past, HJP feels he is not deserving of love, and has ran away from it due to his shame. So HJP ignores his feelings for SDM. HJP knows SDM for a long time, and knows her history, and personality, and knows the things she needs before she even thinks about it.
Enter NDS, a handsome man, with a genius intellect. He falls for SDM's beauty, and he and HJP enter into this web of lies that would allow him to be with SDM. NDS then uses the letters HJP write (via imposter syndrome), and the ideology of a fake NDS as his way to get close to SDM.
Then, there is the change in the script, where Roxanne actually likes the current Christian, rather than the ideology of a Cyrano, showing that shallow attraction was more important to her. Which is what happened in Start Up.
I also felt the love of NDS for SDM was far stronger than her love for him. I know the writer tried to show in the last few episodes this was not the case, but their lack of chemistry in most parts of the show, just didn't do it for me, and it all felt forced near the end.
HJP and WIJ presence in the show was detrimental to both SDM and NDS. The main reason for this is the gap in maturity between SDM and WIJ, and HJP and NDS. When audience are watching these characters, they are not thinking of they have 10-15 years age difference, that is why there is a big difference in maturity. No, people are watching as if they are all similar or same age. And so it leaves a dilemma where if the show didn't have HJP and WIJ in the scenario, then NDS and SDM's characterization would be more acceptable, since everyone young in the show was quite immature, starting from morning group's son, saha, yong san, cheul san and etc... But because the writer wrote two mature characters in WIJ and HJP who aligned with most audience maturity level, NDS and SDM started to look quite immature in comparison. That was a mistake by the writer, she allowed her Main Leads to be overshadowed by more mature and stronger characters in WIJ and HJP.
Yeah, SDM wanted a guy who was at her beck and call, and would bend over for everything she wanted. What a healthy relationship, LOL! That concept of their relationship has always bothered me, because it's a relationship with a power imbalance. Question is for how long would NDS have bent over like that? Would it be for life, or would he eventually grow a spine, then the conflicts will start? It also bothered me, how neither of them bothered to learn ANYTHING personal about each other. It was such a hard relationship to understand.
I can understand falling for the idea of the letters, or the idea of a person. It's just so disappointing if this was the direction they were going for considering the show's source material is Cyrano. It was an insult to the source material for sure. Almost like seeing an adaptation of Romeo and Juliet where Juliet ends up with Count Paris.
Honestly, the whole HJP thing, and how he feels about the letter and SDM is quite confusing, you can debate both sides of the argument here, as the writing about the situation is not very clear. I would leave this plot point on it's own, we will never know. The more I think about these plot points, the more I realize the plot inconsistencies and plot holes...
Dany, dying a hero, maybe giving birth to Jon's son/daughter is a plot direction I can get behind. Dany, dying a villain, killed by Jon, I'm like WTF? I just can't. Oh yeah, I literally laughed at how Bran became the king! And I actually believe the book would do a better job of fleshing out Sansa's character so she would actually deserve being ruler of Winterfell. The show didn't show enough good sides of Sansa to show her being a good ruler.
It's similar to a LDR, because HJP and SDM through their letters, got to know each other. And HJP was putting pieces of himself in those letters.
That's the thing, SDM falling in love with letters well into her 20's was really quite absurd. But people bought into that belief, ONLY because they felt that SDM must be a girl who is REALLY sentimental, and REALLY believes in true love, and REALLY loved the person behind the letters. So when it turns out she was none of those things, it confused the audiences so much who only saw her as someone who is shallow. It was a tale of two SDM, the one in the first few episodes, and the one in the latter half, almost like she had a twin LOL!.
I don't really think a lot of people are still wishing the current SDM with HJP, she is a mere shell of what she was and could have been.
I haven't watched IONTBO, but I do like and prefer strong FL's over SDM's who needs NDS to constantly save them from literally everything.