Kimsamsoom

Lesson learned, if MDL loves a show, it's bad, and if MDL hates a show, it's great.

In no particular order, you should watch Cheese in the Trap, Bride of Haebek, The King Eternal Monarch, and Big. Don't trust the reviews, they are sleeper agents!

Thank me later :)))

voiced by Jin Goo of hotel de luna fame :)))

I agree, if HJP was the main lead here, it would have still done well, if not better. The first 6 episodes are still great in my opinion. Ep. 7 was just the beginning of the end.

I'm just casually waiting for KSH next drama, as I feel seeing him getting a happy ending in another drama, will make me feel like HJP got his happy ending, somehow.

It's the psychology of the Good Boy vs the Bad Boy. We see ourselves in NDS and HJP's action, and all our lives we are told, taught to be good people, so when we see our fellow good person fail to secure a happy ending, we can't help but take it personally, because it's an attack on the precepts of what we've been taught.

Glad to hear you like it :))) Ep. 1 is quite nice.

Fun fact someone made me realize.

There's always been a debate between Western Shows and Eastern Dramas in terms of how western show have better character development because it has multiple seasons and have more runtime minutes to develop the story. Is this true? let us go by the numbers.

For this example, I will use another show about startups called Silicon Valley on HBO.

Silicon Valley is currently on it's 6th season and has a total of 53 episodes, with an episodic runtime of 47 minutes.

Start Up has 1 season with a total of 16 episodes, with an episodic runtime of 85 minutes.

When you do the math, Silicon Valley comes out to 2,490 total minutes runtime, while Start Up comes in at 1,390.

If you actually break it by seasons. the first 3 season of Silicon Valley contained 28 episodes, and comes up at a runtime of 1,316 minutes. 1,316 vs 1,390 for startup, not such a big difference don't you think?

Then we go to other recent Netflix miniseries like Queen's Gambit, which has 7 episodes with a 67 minute run time. And we get 476 minutes vs 1,390 minutes. And yet there was still great character development in the short miniseries.

Then we go to another series, Bridgerton. 8 Episodes at 72 minutes each. And you get 576 minutes vs 1390 minutes. If bridgerton has a second season

Cobra Kai has 30 episodes in 3 seasons at 40 minutes each. You get 1,200 minutes vs 1,390 minutes for Start Up. And Cobra Kai's seasons felt very complete and amazing.

This list keeps going on and on with other shows on Netflix.

It's made me realize, as Kdramas keeps getting longer and longer in run time, these excuses of underdeveloped characters, weak plot, and lazy writing will not suffice anymore, as western shows are doing better in all aspects with less runtime. So hopefully we start seeing better writing in these modern, longer runtime Kdramas.

I didn't bother watching Twilight, too YA for me.

I think in PHR's mind, she actually thinks NDS is the better option. And her reason? Just because :)))

I cannot count the number of commenters who started their review with.

"I started watching because of NJH and Suzy, but stayed because of KSH."

or the ones who said

"I watched this drama for NJH, but NDS has really made me start to question that."

KSH's portrayal of HJP is what made people watch until the end I feel.

Strongest Delivery Man? Final viewer rating is 8%
Catch The Ghost? Final viewer rating is 3%
Welcome to Waikiki 2? Final viewer rating is 1.5%

In those three previous dramas, he didn't act with Hallyu Stars.

Start Up? Final viewer rating is 5%

So it seems that adding two Hallyu stars will increase viewership rating by 2-3%

Record of Youth has 1 Hallyu star, and 1 regular Star? viewer rating is 10%.

Seems to be that it really depends which Hallyu star you star with. Seems like NJH and Suzy's name were not big enough to get a higher viewership rating. In comparison Kim So Hyun's PBIO and Lee Min Ho's TKEM both ended with 8% ratings.

So what we've learned is that KSH needs to aim to act with bigger name Hallyu Star, because seems like NJH and Suzy are just not big draws anymore. But hey at least Suzy is still CF queen, and NJH has his IG followers, so there is that at least :)))

Most of the people who liked the show do so, by vilifying HJP. They call him a jerk, who is too harsh, and just tramples on everyone's feeling.

So it feels good to them to see HJP crash and burn.

In reality the people who did liked the show and choose to vilify HJP, are no different than the members of SST. I think people fail to realize, without HJP, and indirectly KSH, this show would not be as popular as it has been internationally. They like to blame and vilify HJP, and it's fans, but don't realize that it's because of HJP and his fans that this show even is being discussed heavily.

It's ironic really.

Have you ever seen those American movies where the movie starts with either a husband or wife, or BF and GF who for some reason are not together. Either the guy goes on a work trip, or the woman get's stranded somewhere, or some sort of reason.

The point is, there is space between them. And in that space, the girl, or the guy will meet some other guy/girl who ends up being more perfect for them. And the way the writer almost always justified this new pairing to the audience is to make the original BF/Husband a complete jerk who treats the FL poorly. I think this may be what PHR had intended, but because she made such a remarkable SL in HJP, the intended effect falls flat, and in the end, PHR did not do enough to make people dislike HJP, that she essentially ruined her own drama.

There is a movie in 1994 called Only You that represents this concept well, it's the one with Marissa Tomei and Robert Downing Jr.

OMG! Your getting me more hyped when I do eventually watch it :))))

Ahh ok, I don't know then.

If you said nothing wrong, mods shouldn't remove it right? At least that's what I think. You can complain to the mods/admins if you want.

There is a reason twilight is under the "Young Adult" genre.

I guess Start Up is a YA Kdrama then :)))

You may end up enjoying it in the end. Regardless of which ship you do end up boarding, we are always here to discuss the show if you'd like :)))

They touched on it, key word being touched, but did not go into the details of it. In the end, they placed just enough information about tech companies and Start Up to qualify for the genre, but compared to other shows that delve deep into the IT world, like the show I mentioned Silicon Valley, Start Up felt lacking in the research department of things. Also, it is never given clarity what exactly does 2STO do, and what exactly SH Ventures does as a company. The minimal information on other companies other than SST, leaves viewers wanting to know more about the industry, and are lay people, a bit underwhelmed with the lack of information.

The show should clarify that this is how you create a Start Up, when you start in an incubator. This is not the normal track of companies, there is not much talk about series funding, nor is how share structure, compensation, share transferring, and etc.. all works. Also there is very little shown on how hard and expensive it is to market a product, except to make it "Viral". As I've said, the show oversimplifies the whole process, and makes the problems that arise during the show's run seem very trivial. And none of the failures are shown to have any ramifications, which romanticizes the difficulties of starting a start up business, regardless of which industry you choose.

The so called ideating, and business plans were fairly rudimentary. In fact there is way more ideating, market strategy, business plan discussion in a 5 minute clip of Shark Tank, than Start Up did in 2-3 episodes.

Normally when I see someone rave about how much technical information is in a show, I am expecting a show like Suits, and House, where you actually do learn legal terms, legal processes, potential pitfalls, and etc... and their are shown in a fairly realistic manner. Those shows do so much research, that the actual industry they portray has nothing but good words for the portrayal of legal and medical issues that are very realistic. I saw none of that in Start Up, which is not surprising because one of Kdrama's biggest weakness is the amount of research they put into their procedural dramas. Even one of my all time favorite show, It's Okay That's Love is an amazing show that tackles Mental Health Issues, but even then it's portrayal of Mental Disease is not very in-depth, but Kdrama has always been like that, they put just enough information about the environment to get by, but never to the extent of western dramas, who actually hire expert consultants to get their shows right, because they know fans are a stickler for accuracy and continuity.

Well, then we have a difference of opinion. When I watched the scene of NDS choosing the two CEO's, I knew even before WIJ and SDM talked, he would choose SDM 10/10. And this is because he is in love with her. Even if WIJ is Bill Gates, and he worded things so nicely, he would still choose SDM 10 times out of 10. He tries to use logic to convince his two partners, he even tells them, i'll do whatever you guys decide. I guarantee you, if they had decided to go with WIJ, he would still have chosen SDM 100%. In fact, when the partners started to have doubts on SDM due to her background, NDS literally told them, no, the decisions stands and we are not changing. So much for giving his partners choice right?

The thing is, if your CEO is making decisions based on how attracted they are to potential employees, then we have not only an HR problem, but a potential pitfall when the CEO and her love interest do break up. This has happened to so many companies big and small, it's not even funny. That's why people are constantly telling people not to go into business with people who are not your wife or husband.

Dalmi, being able to get into a prestigious university does not make her a genius. It makes her smart. But for someone smart, I don't understand why she would drop university, where the tuition has already been paid by Grandma, who sold her shop, probably not for market price, for a smaller store, and wasted tuition? This doesn't make.

Also, WIJ did not create a company solely to stick it to her step father. She created her company because A. she was being forced out by her step brother, and B. she wanted her own independence from having to lean on men to succeed, something SDM failed to do, as SDM became very dependent on NDS. SDM on the other hand, wants to create a company and succeed, for the SOLE reason of sticking it to to her sister, which is pretty petty of SDM.

there was quite a few people who got those words right, I think 20 maybe, which included WIJ, so what made SDM more special than the other 20? What made SDM stand out to NDS is not her words, but the fact he is attracted to her. If SDM was a less attractive person, and NDS was not in love with her, would he still choose SDM over WIJ? That is the real question don't you think? NDS throughout the show has shown that he makes decisions based on his emotions and not logic.

SDM finding a team that will take a chance on a person whose work experience included being a barista at a coffee shop is a tall ask. She used her "15 year history with NDS" to make them choose her as CEO. It's no different that a friend asking you to get him a job at your company because your friends, rather than because he/she is qualified for the position. The part here though is that NDS and SDM don't actually have that 15 year history of the letters, so I see it as SDM using their "history" to entrap NDS. At least that is how I see it. SDM is better than NDS in presentation skills, but is she the best person for the job? During demo day, she could not even answer Alex question without freezing. In comparison, her sister, received a much harsher question at a more aggressive slant from NDS father, and answered it masterfully.

Silicon Valley is 6 seasons long with 53 total episodes at 47 minutes each episode, for a running total of 2,491 minutes of run time. Start Up is 16 episodes with a run time of 85 minutes per episode, for a total runtime of 1,360. If Start Up were to follow the runtime format of Silicon Valley, it would equate into 29 episodes. Silicon Valley had 8 eps. in season 1, 10 eps in season 2 and 10 eps in season 3. Which means that Start Up would actually have 3 full seasons in western run times. And I think most people would argue, 3 seasons is enough to flesh out characters don't you think? And, interestingly enough, the first season 1 of Silicon Valley, contains so much tech information, that it would satisfy the developer in you I believe. But exactly as you said, Silicon is a rom-com, which mean it won't put too much info on the technical aspects of business, which is why I was initially surprised by your comment on it's realism. It's like comparing Grey's Anatomy and House.

There is a clear bromance in the first 6 episodes, and they were setting up for an epic bromance. But then the writing shifted gears, and made them mortal enemies instead. And considering how deep there disdain ran, I find it hard to believe that all of ill feelings held within 3.5 years just disappeared. Really quite unrealistic, regardless of how mature NDS and HJP are suppose to be. Which is why I couldn't relate to the power walk at the end. If NDS and HJP had started their bromance in ep. 12 or 13, then maybe it would be more palatable, but the writer literally waited until the end of ep. 16. True Beauty, another show with a love triangle, is closing their love triangle arc a lot better than Start Up did, and they did create a bromance between the two leads that is much more realistic, than the forced one Start Up had in the end.

I mean HJP being lonely and alone for 15 years, and never even having a girlfriend during that time kind of shows that he has some issues he has to deal with. If I were to guess, HJP may just end up alone, as he just buries his head in his work, instead of finding happiness. Unless he can find a girl who helps him come out of his shell, because until the end, HJP is too self sacrificing, as if he believes that he does not deserve happiness. Which is quite tragic.

LOL! Touche

Start Up romanticizes the process of entrepreneurship. The only time it looked realistic was in Ep. 1 when the father was having such a difficult time getting his Start Up floating, and if not for Grandma's intervention, he would have failed. In fact, only the dad's arc seem to ground the process of startups, but then since it was only shown in Ep. 1, it was easily forgotten in the latter episodes. In fact, there is no mention of the dad again, up until Ep. 12 I believe.

Throughout the show, although there are glimpses of how hard it can be, they over glamorized "Sailing without a map", and they never touched on the actual hardships of doing business. They also showed how easy it was to get out of problems, and they show that they are never long lasting ramifications of their actions. It oversimplified the whole process making it look easier than it really is. Plus the biggest part was having someone like SDM, who really have no qualifications being the sudden brainchild of the company. Steve Jobs is a college dropout, but he is also a genius, and was a pioneer. SDM's character is not, and frankly, her sister WIJ, was much more of a pioneer, and smarter than SDM.

I believe a lot of NDS decision making is very clearly biased and acted upon by emotions rather than logic. Which is ironic, because the writer painted NDS as this extremely logical person, similar to Sheldon is on Big Bang Theory. But this does not seem to be the case at all. And there are several examples of how he is making decisions in the show purely because of his interest in SDM. Take out his love interest in SDM, and he may not make these decisions. One such example is Cheul San and Yong San arguing that SDM did not even go to college, why pick her over WIJ who actually was a CEO of a huge company. But NDS decides to pick SDM anyway due to his attraction to her.

If SDM was a more malicious person, one could argue that she got her position using her feminine wiles rather than her qualifications, of which she had very little of. That she used her visual assets to entrap NDS to do what she wanted. Because that is what happened in the show, but it's romanticized instead. There are other examples as well.

If you enjoyed Start Up's portrayal of Start Up. I have a suggestion for you, watch Silicon Valley on HBO, it will blow your mind. The amount of realism, and technical details they researched in that show will blow your mind. That show got raves from many in the industry, and I am sure you will appreciate it. Of course it's still a show, so not everything is realistic, but it has more meat than Start Up, so I'm sure you will enjoy it.

Here is the google definition of a codependent relationship. I think you will find SDM and NDS checks the box on a few of these things, if not most of it. In fact if you wanted, I can show examples from the show when most of these attributes occurred.

1. Difficulty making decisions in a relationship
2. Difficulty identifying your feelings
3. Difficulty communicating in a relationship
4. Valuing the approval of others more than valuing yourself
5. Lacking trust in yourself and having poor self-esteem
6.Having fears of abandonment or an obsessive need for approval
7. Having an unhealthy dependence on relationships, even at your own cost
8. Having an exaggerated sense of responsibility for the actions of others

https://www.everydayhealth.com/emotional-health/do-you-have-a-codependent-personality.aspx

It wouldn't make sense. HJP and SDM knew each other for 3 years, but it's clear that he only visited grandma during big events like Christmas or etc... It's not the kind of relationship a Grandson would have with her Grandma who would visit every week or once a month at least. Plus keep in mind SDM was awkward around HJP for 3 years, so HJP always coming to visit Grandma would just continue her awkwardness.

Now with NDS in the picture, and Grandma being completely blind, I don't feel HJP would be welcome. Just because they work together doesn't mean he is welcome. Put this situation in real life, and it's quite rare to see someone who was jilted by the girl, still coming to visit the Grandma, when the guy who was his rival is married to the girl he loved.

Also, note in the ending, not even one picture of HJP in the montage, kind of shows maybe he is not that close anymore to them. Just because he is not close to SDM and NDS, doesn't mean he can't act as consultant. In the show, HJP has proven regardless of emotions, he can be professional.

So I know people hoped that HJP got a good ending, but frankly it's contradictory to what we've shown.

IF the writer had allowed HJP to just move away and get time to think. For example move to US or another part of Korea, start his own company or etc... then people would be happier, since he was able to get away from the situation that hurt him. But unfortunately the writer chose to force HJP to babysit the main couple forever. PLUS, we don't even know if HJP is even part of the company any more or just getting a salary via consultancy? The writer tried so so so hard, to make sure the main couple had the BEST ending, that she didn't care about ending the storylines/arcs of the other character properly.

In fact the last 6 episodes was so homogenously about the main couple, that they could have just taken out the screen time of all the other characters, and put SDM and NDS on screen for 7 episodes, and the show wouldn't have missed a beat due to how monolithic the writing became on showcasing the main couple.

I agree, the nickname subconsciously conditioned people to root for him.

Just a little analogy about Start Up...

I think I would describe HJP and NDS like this.

HJP is your financial advisor who suggest you purchase blue chip stocks like Microsoft, and Apple, and argues that the growth of such stocks would not be that big, but more consistent. He also provides clear exit strategy and stop losses to mitigate losses.

While NDS if the guy on Youtube who is telling you to buy penny stocks, and giving you clickbait titles like "How to Be The Next Steve Jobs in 3 Easy Steps". He encourages you to dump all your money in this penny stock as you will become an instant millionaire. He has no exit strategy, and when the penny stock tanks, he will be nowhere to be found.

SDM is the girl who is constantly looking for the next get rich quick scheme to compete with her sister.

And in the end it's a luck thing. The youtube guy is not always wrong, but his way is more risky, and it will depend on your risk tolerance. HJP's way will not hit many home runs, but your portfolio will grow, and your going to be more emotionally stable.

HJP's method will most likely persevere regardless of the economic status. But in times of great economic pandemic, the penny stocks NDS recommends will tank like crazy, while the Blue Chips will weather the storm better, and provide you with better sheltering.

So in the context of Start Up, HJP represents a more dependable love. HJP isn't so angsty and lovey dovey compared to NDS, and to some it may seem not as passionate because he isn't throwing away everything for SDM. NDS represents that overzealous passionate guy, who is great with how much he would do for the girl, and how hot his passion burns. But the minute the passion dies out, the frigid cold of apathy will wash over SDM, and then she'll wish she found shelter in the warm HJP.

There have been other people from the industry and field, who also disliked the portrayal, and felt it didn't portray the industry well. This proves that sometimes, you may have the same background, history and experience as somebody else, and yet you will still have different opinions on the same thing. And that is just human nature.

And all these comments, reviews, and opinions simply show the majority sentiment, but it's not set in stone, you can still have an opinion different from the majority opinion, there is no rule against it. Just like in most countries, there are two political parties, and even though at the end of elections, there is a majority winner, there are still people who disagree. There have been dramas like PBIO, where majority loved it and rated it high, but you still have people who were bored by it, and disliked it. Don't be discouraged by the critical opinions, whether you are in the majority or minority sentiment, it doesn't matter, all that matters is your personal experience.

Similar to cooking shows, or shows like Top Chef and Master Chef, where the life of a chef is over glamorized and made to look easy, Start Up serves the same purpose of overs implying business and entrepreneurship to make it look easy and inspire people to tackle it.

In terms of growing together, I feel the ML and FL had a codependent relationship that is troubling in today's current society. Normally in a relationship, there should always be one person who acts as a moral barometer in the relationship, but when both ML and FL refuses to check the "weather", there are signs that continued co-existence will result in a tumultuous storm increase daily. I didn't understand how the couple, who is according to some, MFEO, didn't communicate well at all. There was so much information either hidden, or never bothered unraveling about both of them, that left me confused.

Actually in HJP didn't really have a family. He has Grandma, but he is not part of Grandma's family. It's not realistic that he would still be a big part of Grandma's family now that NDS is there. It's a harsh reality, not much different from how adopted kids are treated versus the real kids of the adopted mother/father.

Feel free to post more here if you'd like to discuss the show more :)))