Kimsamsoom

Yes. Some people are just really good people, and have difficulty being bad people. That is why regardless of how aggressive HJP was to Halmoni, she always called him a good boy.

Not much older. In Ep. 1 SDM and HJP have at most 6 years difference.

But yet, HJP was too well written for a SL.

Is this on purpose? FYI the extra on When the Camellia Blooms was amazing! First time I saw a foreign extra not just be a prop.

The thing is "given situation" is quite subjective. What someone may consider an ideal situation, may not be ideal for somebody else.

Let me give you an example. Person A has a house overlooking the Han River, a lot of money, and a nice car. Person B has two supportive parents, 2 supportive friends, and a potentially disruptive technology that is in it's infancy. Now, given your support on the idea that NDS is an underdog, I would bet you would choose the life of Person A as more advantageous. But for me, Person B has a better life, and a bigger potential.

The thing is, as I said, NDS fans and SST, perceive that money is everything, in fact to Yong San and Cheul San, success and money are the most important thing. So they immediately imply that NDS is the underdog that has to slay the big dragon in HJP, but that is viewing the concept of an underdog in the most fiscal of form. Let us go into the world of sports, where underdog stories are plentiful. You would think that the richer, more stacked franchise is always the underdog right? But that is not the case. Historically, the underdog has always been the sports team that has less of a chance of winning the championship, regardless of the salary of the players, or the overall wealth of the franchise. Using this analogy, HJP is the underdog because he had less of chance to be with SDM.

Next we look at the situations. Normally a underdog story is seen as the David vs Goliath theory, where the Goliath has everything, and the David has nothing, and yet David wins in the end. This is simply not the case. The only thing HJP has over NDS is money, and success. Things that NDS was on the trajectory to earn and match with their success in Coda and Alex's interest in them. Then we factor in that NDS has a great support system in his friends and his parents. He had an actual childhood growing up. He has someone to go home to, he has someone who cares what happens to him, he has the loyalty of Cheul San and Yong San. And later, he even gets Grandma on his side. He literally has the emotional deck stacked for him. Then you consider the fact that when he makes mistakes, there is no punishment, because someone is always there to save him. In comparison when HJP makes a mistake, he has to sacrifice A LOT for each mistake. It's skewed quite heavily in NDS favor actually.

Only two characters think NDS is a loser. Grandma and HJP. The people who think he isn't a loser include SDM, Cheul San, NDS cousin, the Twins, NDS parents, Yong San, NDS entire extended family, and Alex. Grandma and HJP eventually change their stance on it as well.

That's the thing, you think HJP cannot be an underdog because he is rich, and that is an issue. Because money does not buy you happiness. Success does not guarantee mental health. The backstory of HJP sole purpose is to show you that you can have all the money in the world, but without a family, a support system, and loyal friends, it becomes pointless.

This type of thinking has been repeatedly, if not obsessively portrayed in both western and eastern dramas for decades. They have shown multiple, if not hundreds of characters who achieve success but are lonely, depressed and unsatisfied, and it's only when they go back to their roots to them see their overall well being improve. A nice example of this is a movie by Steve Martin in 1984 called |The Lonely Guy". Read the plot on Wikipedia and you'll see what I mean.

NDS is the initial underdog in maybe ep. 1 or 2, but as each episode unfolds, and we learn more about NDS and HJP, we see the deck start to move towards NDS to the point where it became a David (HJP) vs Goliath (NDS) portrayal. If we look at Start Up in a very shallow way, and only think about the wealth of people, then sure NDS is poorer than everyone else, so he is the underdog, but when we actually consider the deeper level, and actually look at their life situation from a macro point of view, we start seeing the real truth of the situation.


If PHR had made HJP a rich, successful Playboy, who had tons of friends, wasn't an orphan, was selfish, and was violent and aggressive with NDS, then yes I agree NDS is the underdog, but since he is the opposite of those things, he is in a worst situation than NDS is.

Kim Joo Hun had an amazing 2020

Korean production value has come a long way from the days of old.

The one thing that hasn't change is the awkward acting of it's foreign extras. Still as bas as before :)))

HJP has been the clear underdog in Start Up since Day 1, I felt that part was fairly clear from the beginning. NDS had many advantages compared to HJP, which included the fact that he was younger. HJP even vocalizes this particular advantage.

HJP was the underdog since Ep. 3 or 4, and maybe that's why so many people were rooting for him, because people love rooting for the underdogs.

NDS feels like he is the underdog. yet nobody thinks it, except him. Maybe you have a different opinion why NDS is an underdog?

In fact, the only thing HJP has over NDS is money, but because of their age difference, and NDS genius, it was only a matter of time before NDS would surpass HJP in this sense. I could list all of NDS big advantages if you'd like. It's pretty one sided, which is why I am 100% sure HJP would love to switch lives with NDS 10/10 and give up his money.

Watching an underdog lose out in the end, feels bittersweet.

I've always felt it weird that SST, and Dodal fans all think that being rich means your happy. When we've seen a lot of real life examples where this is not the case.

Ah, then smooth sailing from here on out then :)))

I feel the budget for sceneries are quite good, I liked the yacht scene as well.

I think LDW has an older vibe compared to KSH, while KSH acts young for his age, so his pairing with Suzy feels more natural.

I agree, I kind of wish they kept the characterization of NDS from the first 2 episodes for the entirety of the show.

I think the family arc between NDS and his father was not handled properly. From hiding from his father, to outright disrespecting him, to friends forever, it was a weird and unrealistic arc.

PSA to newcomers who are liking Start Up. I feel this needs to be said.

I feel the comments of people who liked the show has a certain misunderstood vibe to it, so I would like to clear the air.

1. Although vocal majority did not like the show, since the show is done, most have left for other comment section, there are only a handful of Jidal fans who lurk and post here, mostly to hit the 30k comment milestone. The reason to hit the milestone? No reason, it's just nice to accomplish goals, even if it's a meaningless one.

2. The Jidal fans welcome all new fans of the show, whether you are Dodal or Jidal fans, it doesn't matter. Whether you like it or hate it, it doesn't matter, we are open to discussion with both types of fans. The only commenters we will likely ignore are trolls. In fact, I personally prefer talking to Dodal fans, as it potentially shows me different angles of the show I did not see before, plus it allows me to elaborate why I thought HJP was my choice for SDM in the first 8-10 episodes.

3. The HJP fans who are left here are a fun loving crew, who will make jokes from time to time. My personal humor style is sarcasm, don't be offended by it, it's just who I am.

4. No need to caption your comments with the following statements, because all it does is add some weird awkward vibes that accomplishes nothing. The following statements should be brought to a minimum if possible.

a. "Don't hate me, but I actually liked the show"
b. "I'm a Dodal fan, and I don't want to hear negative comments"
c. "This comment section has a bad vibe"
d. "I didn't want to watch the show because of the comment section and all the bad reviews, but I loved it"
e. "I don't know why people didn't like it, NDS was clearly the Main Lead"

You see, HJP fans have their reasons for feeling the way they did, so we should respect their views. If they didn't like Start Up, it's their choice, just like Dodal fans deserve respect for liking it.

5. Occasionally trolls will come in to stir the pot. You can just ignore them, because frankly there is nothing much to stir.

Yeah, HJP's characterization is fairly consistent.

Yeah, it's hard to talk about the show in it's entirety since Arihant hasn't finished it yet.

How come pre-produced format doesn't work? The only thing downside I see from a pre-produced drama is for the studio, it's a potentially higher monetary risk.

Because with a live airing drama, if the reviews and reception is poor, the director/writer can opt to shorten the episode run time or even the number of episodes, thus minimizing the financial cost of production. In a pre-produced drama, you've basically invested the money into production and have to go out and sell it. But with the number of streaming websites/companies out there, selling their product has never been easier IMO.

Unless there is another thing about pre-produced drama I am missing.

I'm speaking on 3rd hand information gathered from multiple posters. But I hear the name Skycastle come up often with regards to this.

Hmm, I don't think I can respond properly to this without spoiling the remaining episodes.

But writers in general, SHOULD NOT change their story/plot/ships/endings based on viewers response, or public pressure, but they do it all the time for live airing dramas. Which is why I much prefer dramas that are pre-produced so that there is minimal chance of pressure from agencies, public and etc...

I feel bad for some K-actors/actress because in kdrama land, if your not the flavor of the month, a hallyu star, or just well connected, getting a leading role is ridiculously difficult. And in the end, some actor/actress become mentally scarred, as they just never get a big break, and some go even further and do self-harm. I imagine the Harvey Weinstein type of environment also exist in Korea. Which is why JTBC dramas are starting to get a reputation for willing to risk their reputations on relatively unknown or rookie actor/actress, which is a breath of fresh air. TVN on the other hand, seems to stick with a similar model as Netflix of only casting big name actor/actresses for their dramas.

I won't spoil too much, let's continue our discussion after you've finished all the episodes.

I don't think you speak for all Dodal fans, so you don't know that DODAL is a potential Abbreviation. Unless you can prove that this isn't the intention of the moniker, I suggest you stop making assumptions as well, since you know what they say when you assume. I believe there is a deeper meaning to the moniker, and I proposed my hypotheses. It's always fun to crack codes, or solve a puzzle, and I feel I solved a big one.

I proposed a theory on the abbreviations of Dodal, something you are free to dispute with your own abbreviations. The fact you see everything with such a negative slant, makes me a bit worried about you. I know your mental is strong, but sometimes you still need someone to talk to. Free to send me a message if you want, and we can discuss things in more details.

have a good day friend :)))

All we learn is that in the end, SDM is as shallow as puddle.

When NDS asked if HJP has ever had a GF, HJP's face says it all. He never explicitly says it, but it is very heavily implied that he never did.

Yes, that last scenes cemented Poker Faced Suzy, or Bambi Eyed Suzy. She has really got to work on those micro expressions, they are just atrocious. Like watching a wall.