Its just the drama which is so bad. They just picked up the wrong drama i guess. I think u forgot to write "in…
I think the shows suffer from over hype. If this was lesser known actors/actress and writer, it probably would not be criticized so badly.
I'm not sure if lee min ho's acting is bad, but rather it's quite stiff and repetitive, and very similar acting to his other roles. But I think this kind of acting, regardless of how bad it may be is popular to his fans. So as long as lee min ho remains popular, I doubt he will ever leave his comfort zone and try to learn actual acting in other roles.
Expounding on what I said so it doesn't get misunderstood or twisted, "The aggregate (Flixpatrol) numbers represent…
I don't know, because Backstreet Rookie, took like almost 13 episodes before they admitted their feelings, and it still wasn't that loved by SK audiences. And newer Kdrama are moving away from this "I love you" by 15th episode formula. But the rushed romance, from the comments here on MDL, seems to have turned off some international audiences.
Well, that's just so silly, since most people won't appreciate those things. Like why spend so much money on costumes to satisfy the british royalty super fans.
Too bad, bae doona did quite well in Sense8, and there was some promise to the premise. Also, Bae Doona is currently Netflix's most bankable Korean Actress. She and Gong Yoo are coming up with a netflix original series. Not sure if it will be entirely produced by Netflix or rights being bought again, but I'm excited, as she is phenomenal. Her role in Kingdom was just perfect.
Traditionally, TV shows cater mostly to the 23-40 demographic., so that's the target market for most TV executives, they are also the largest demographic, TV watching wise.
Not true about Kpop, their music also fits the 23-40 demographics as well, it's huge with the working folks as well.
Thematically, mental illness shows like it's okay not tbe okay is more readily accepted in US as compared to Korea, but overall US just does not watch many asians shows in general, not counting Anime. Anime has a long history in North America, with many many Animes being dubbed in English and featuring in networks like cartoon network and etc...
If you ever watch a Kdrama that has the a major/minor character being either LGBTQ, a visible minority, or obese for a majority of the show's run, then I would argue, that show is being marketed towards international audiences, since those are very hot ticket items now in western shows, but still lack a major presence in Asia, especially in Korea and Japan. LGBTQ for example is quite visible in other south east asian countries like thailand, philippines, taiwan and etc...
I haven't watched stranger, so I can't comment on it, I heard it's good though.
Expounding on what I said so it doesn't get misunderstood or twisted, "The aggregate (Flixpatrol) numbers represent…
Hmmm, what you see as reminiscent of pride of prejudice, I see as being common to a lot of regular Kdrama tropes, which is why I feel the king's romance is very much a kdrama romance, as compared to a westernized romance guidance. From the way they talk, the way they acted when they saw each other and etc... check out how international shows approach romance, it's substantially different from the way asian shows does it. I think a major reason for that is the conservative manner that asian shows portray romance. In fact seeing a open mouthed kiss is very rare in Kdrama, and sometimes viewers, especially international viewers can't relate to fish kisses as they call it.
Also, I would base international appeal for songs based on youtube count. Maze is at 2 million views. Another OST from a kim eun sook drama, Goblin, has 110 million views. Only time will tell if maze will become that popular, or even orbit.
Netflix has two korean produced dramas. Kingdom, and Love Alarm, all others are just rights being purchased by netflix. The number of Netflix Series kdrama is quite low compared to it's Netflix Series Anime, Japanese Shows, European Shows, Australian/New Zealand Shows, Mexican Shows, and Indian Shows. But it's higher than most of south east asia, and Chinese shows.
I would certainly hope that production cost for Kdrama is lower than US/UK shows considering the wage discrepancies alone in both countries. I actually never understood why the crown cost so much to produce, since I didn't feel there was much CGI, special effects, overuse of cosmetics and etc... that would balloon a production cost. Like umbrella academy costing a lot makes sense to me because of all the CGI that went into it. Same thing for get down, why does it cost so much? doesn't make sense to me. I know in US extras get paid anywhere from $400-$800 for a scene, in Korea, i'm sure that number is way lower, that's why you see so many extras in Kdramas.
Sense8 from what I know and read was considered a massive failure, they actually wanted to extend to another season, but due to it's high cost per episode and it's dismal ratings, decided not to.
According to flix patrol, the US watches 0.6% Asian shows. So I highly doubt CLOY and TKEM will really convert much people, considering the mass netflix population in the US doesn't watch Asian shows. Like i've said before, the way to convert more Kdrama watchers is through Kpop.
Need advice here, I just finished Ep 4, I just don't seem to want to continue.... the cinematography is nice and…
You can continue watching, but like many others, your going to keep expecting the next episode to get better, but it may not. Around episode 10-12, it will peak, and they are generally nice episodes, then 13-15 will be a fairly steep drop in quality, ending with a pretty disatisfactory, fan service filled episode 16.
The show is seen as confusing because it asks way too many questions, and only gives answers to a few of them. But there are certainly similarities in the king with Goblin, and the OST is nice. But if there are things you are disliking this far in, they will still be there 12 episodes later.
Expounding on what I said so it doesn't get misunderstood or twisted, "The aggregate (Flixpatrol) numbers represent…
Actually, a lot of people in the comments section and the review section agree that the king is very reminiscent of Goblin, another kim eun sook drama. And I can see it, from the cinematography, the feel of the OST, plot devices, kim go eun, overall feel, and the bromance. And Goblin was not really made for international audience, with Goblin being based on a South Korean folklore, and heavy usage of the reincarnation theme, which is very much an Asian staple in cinema, as compared to a western one.
As for the love story, this is not the way to appeal to western audience. In fact, from the sappy saccharine lines, to the way they show love, plus the longing gaze, and using subtle facial features to replace passionate love, this is all very in line with traditional kdrama formulas. Just watch, other international TV shows on Netflix and you'll see what I mean with how they portray romance.
In fact, if you want to see an asian show that made a show/movie that is very Hollywood, watch the Wandering Earth. If you told me, this was China made, I would be shocked. Its a movie that is really on par with other Hollywood disaster film. In fact, if i'm not mistaken, they even used some actors that came from international roots, like US. I feel that some of China/HK films are all global ready, and would be well accepted in the US. Korean movies, I think, are on the same level as Japanese movies, or one step ahead. Kdrama on the other hand, I feel is still far from that. With most people in the western world, only being able to name a few Kdrama, if any at all. And after a staple diet of TV shows like desperate housewives, grey's anatomy, DC based TV shows, hard to tell if most US audience would ever have a significant chunk enjoy Kdrama. Like a 2 hour korean movie here and there is fine, but a 16-20 hour Kdrama? Not so sure.
Google and Wikipedia is your friend, as most people will google the actor/actresses in international dramas, I know I do. People are more keen to watch a tv drama/movie if it's a well known actor/actress from a particular country. Like for example, that guy in slumdog millionaire is super popular in India, and increases the movie's street cred, considering the other two main actors are kind of no names at the time.
I think more global people would watch Mr. Sunshine, since Lee Byung Hun is a certified global star, with successful roles in RED 2, and GI Joe to name a few, he is probably more famous than Rain, globally.
Yes, I agree, most people's first foray into kdrama will be watching one drama, get hooked in the actor/actress, find other dramas they are in, and then they get addicted to Kdrama. But getting people to even start, is the hard part. Since Kdrama doesn't appeal to the global market yet. I think the first step would need to be Kpop getting even more popular. Once Kpop has reached critical mass, people will start googling Kpop songs that are being used for OST. Then they'll watch them on youtube, and be curious about the show. But we are still very far from that happening I feel, although Kpop has become really popular as of late.
It's not much of an extension tbh, Kpop is still the way to go. And, those shows you mentioned, none of them are in the top 10 in the western world, who are the biggest consumer of streaming content, which is effectively the true target market. Being big in Asia, for me is not as big of a deal, as being big in US/Europe. Because a lot of korean culture is already very similar to other asian countries culture. It's western culture where we find the partisanship. As streaming becomes bigger and bigger globally, I'm hoping Netflix takes more of a risk, and start producing Netflix produced, written, shows, rather than just buying rights. Their track record is getting better and better, with some of their movies/shows getting huge appeal outside of Netflix. It will eventually come to a point when Netflix can start generating more income by selling the rights of their original programming to other streaming providers.
I think in terms of Korean culture being consumed, I would ranked it this way.
1. Korean Food 2. Kpop 3. Korean Beauty Products 4. Korean Fashion 5. Korean Movies 6. Korean Variety Show 7. Korean Dramas
Expounding on what I said so it doesn't get misunderstood or twisted, "The aggregate (Flixpatrol) numbers represent…
normally streaming companies have two method to market their shows. In the case of Netflix, they either use an A-list star to draw in the viewers, or use a unique storyline. In the case of shows like umbrella academy and money heist, it's the latter. But then you'll have the adam sandler movies that are all bad, but because of his global draw, gets tons of views anyway.
The reason Kdrama like it's ok not to be ok, the king, and crash landing on you sold well, is primarily due to it's star power more than anything. If these shows had unknown celebrities, I doubt we will be seeing streaming services buying up the rights to show these shows.
As much as it's fun to blame bandwagon, controversies and etc... for a films failure, there have been many films/shows that are mired in controversies, sexual abuse accusations, and etc... that still do very well. Not all international fans are aware of all the controversies of the king, and to imply that people on MDL vote based on the majority, insults their base intelligence. Because with that same mentality, any kdrama's comment section that has mostly negative views are unfairly rated then. thus we cannot trust any ratings in the world then, since it's all susceptible to bias. But we know this isn't true, people in general have independent thought and are not mindless zombies who can't think for themselves.
A lot of the negative attention the show has been getting has been the expectation. On paper, the show had everything it needed to be one of the best korean shows of 2020, and it just failed to deliver. In the end, the king was just your average kdrama that came in with huge expectation and failed deliver. If the king had unknown writers, and actors, and a smaller budget, maybe it would be considered better, but since it didn't, people reacted accordingly.
I actually think, that streaming companies, to cut cost, will start investing in better writers and directors, then front ending the cost on A-list actors to sell their movies/dramas. But at the moment, A-list actors/writers is still the formula to get larger market share. If umbrella academy is any indication, its definitely possible to achieve great results with less.
For netflix, because majority of their subscribers are not in Asia, they are focusing their original content on countries that have mass global appeal, and not just Asia appeal. Which means, they will continuously dub content from europe, australia, south america and etc... Because the mentality is, a global audience will more likely watch a show like money heist, than the king. Money Heist is not suppose to appeal to an Asian audience, but since it's popular in western world, it automatically becomes appealing to Asia. It doesn't work the other way around. One of the largest grossing film in China, Wolf Brigade, has almost zero presence outside of Asia.
Unfortunately, it means kdrama won't be getting mass global appeal anytime soon. But the success of parasite is encouraging.
Parasite made the rounds globally, since it's technically an art film as compared to a mainstream film. And as standard for those type of films, they normally go around the international film circuit like other similar type of korean films
For TV shows, it really doesn't make sense for them to market globally rather than locally. First off, a lot of korean production company don't have enough money to produce the entire show, relying heavily on PPL to fund the show. And most local advertisers won't sign on a show that isn't loved, or shown locally, since their products are almost entirely domestic. Two shows of korean origin that come to mind are Kingdom and Love Alarm, but both films, are actually paid for by Netflix budget. And if you've watched them, you'll see that they actually are produced in line with other netflix original series, and contain more hollywood type scripting than your regular kdrama. King isn't liike that, it's still made to appeal more to local audience, but unfortunately it didn't.
In the end, if kdrama wants to reach a global audience, they should first have it produced by Netflix, with netflix controling the writer, director, plotting, pacing and etc... Also they should work on bringing the film up to hollywood standards. I would also bring in some hollywood actors to act in the series,. LIke the tv series Snow piercer to get a more mass appeal. Also using korean actors with global appeal is another good way. actors like lee byung hun and bae doona. Unfortunately someone like kim go eun and lee min hos popularity doesn't extend pass asia, so they are not global draws.
Expounding on what I said so it doesn't get misunderstood or twisted, "The aggregate (Flixpatrol) numbers represent…
Well theres no big name in umbrella academy, maybe except for kate walsh and ellen page, who are not exactly huge stars, but the ensemble does a really good job.
Fun fact lee min ho gets paid more than any actor in umbrella academy per episode. Isn't that funny.
One thing i find kdrama have over western show is emotional investment. Western shows don't really prioritize emotional investment the same way kdrama does.
What's stopping king from making a show similar to umbrella academy in terms of writing, pacing, complexity and etc...? Its certainly not money as kings prod budget is huge.
Just disappointing as the king as people said had potential, but its going to be just another poorly written kdrama.
The king with a script and acting as good as umbrella academy could have maybe become popular globally, reaching bigger markers like us and europe. but instead its just stuck in its same old target market, which is asia.
I hope to someday see a kdrama reach parasite levels or train to busan levels of reach someday.
i finally finished watching this drama...i basically watch 1 ep per day towards the end. Nothing really interesting…
Unfortunately, lee min ho fans like watching him in these type of roles, because it accentuates his handsomeness. The problem is, his acting range is never challenge, and many begins to suspect that this is the only role he can do.
I think you more or less represent the majority feelings from most fans on MDL, in fact your experience seem even more neutral than others.
Little bit off topic, but I just finished watching season 2 of The Umbrella Academy, and it's a literal masterpiece. It's also based on an alternate world/time travel plot, that is so clearly explained. It also contains so much mystery and unanswered questions that make it quite complex and simple at the same time, that has made its fans create so many theories about it. It has the perfect mix of humor, suspense, romance, and mystery.
If you like time travel stories, you definitely need to watch The Umbrella Academy, you won't regret your decision. It's a really well written time travel shows that has a non confusing plot, but retains a complexity that keeps you guessing after each episode. The cliffhangers on each episode makes the show very binge worthy as well.
Oh yeah, it also has waaaaaaayyyyyy more viewers than the King on Netflix, and it's top 10 most watched show on Netflix for 2020 according to flix patrol.
I kind of wish that Kdrama writing can start writing these type of sci-fi drama. There was potential for the king to have something like this, given the production budget, but I feel much of it is wasted on who knows what. And the umbrella academy didn't reinvent the wheel for it's plot, there are a lot of borrowed themes in it's story, yet it found a way to retain it's fresh coat.
The king on the other hand, tried to mix a new type of sci-fi plot, which failed miserably, with just a handful of super fans defending the complexity and sharpness of the plot. Disappointing, considering so many time travel/alternate tv shows are coming out left and right that is trumping the king globally, even on the romance side, it comes of as weak and can't compare to it's other Kdrama peers. I really felt this when I was watching the time travel concept of the umbrella academy. I was like, oh, how come the king could not just have written it this way.
This comment section should really be renamed Anti-The King Eternal Monarch so newcomers are forewarned. It seems…
By us, do you mean you? I mean you keep trying to imply that most people on MDL liked the king, when it's the exact opposite. Eight out of every 10 comments is on a negative skew, with maybe a few liking it. Like I said, doesn't matter if every nook and cranny loves the King, MDL doesn't, and that's all the validation I need. In my mind, as long as MDL pans it as a failure, it will be a failure in my mind as well, because I value the MDL review community over other similar communities.
And you really need to pick up a dictionary, because your definition of words are really off kilter. You say people are attacking super fans as yourself? By attacking, do you mean not agreeing with you? When does not agreeing with someone translate to attacking and harassing? I mean I am getting a little worried about your mental state when you get triggered by a message board like MDL, on a fictional TV show.
Hmm, best to read my previous work to answer your question, I actually took time to research it. You can manipulate data all you want, and bend the truth, but I bring in facts. Take the time to read what I wrote, and you will be enlightened my friend.
Some people would have you believe that the king is beloved globally, and almost every single country is watching it. But i'd like to lay down some facts to bust this myth.
Mythbusters: The King Eternal Monarch edition.
According to Netflix's latest financial statement. Their current subscriber count as of June 30, 2020 is 187,903,000 or Approximately 188M subscribers.
The quick Breakdown is as follows.
United States and Canada (UCAN) - 71,437,000 Europe, Middle East and Africa (EMEA) - 60,109,000 Latin America (LATAM) - 35,193,000 Asia-Pacific (APAC) - 21,164,000 Total Subscribers = 187,903,000
A lot of the defenders of the show likes to use flixpatrol to defend the shows popularity globally. So i'll be using the same metric to be fair to them. Flix patrol has a new metric called Netflix Preference, and of particular importance is this stat called Netflix Preference by Region. Simply put, it shows Netflix subscribers preference when watching shows of which country and region. Here are the quick numbers.
European Shows - 22.1% North American Shows - 63% Latin America Shows - 4.5% Asian Shows - 9.6%
Now a quick glance of the more detailed stat shows that in (UCAN), the amount of Asian shows being consumed is at 1.3% for Canada and in the US it's .6%. For the next biggest region for netflix subscribers (EMEA), the numbers are barely higher, with France ranking the highest at 3.5% of consumption.
So hmmm, where are asian shows, which include kdrama, most consumed? The top country consuming Asian dramas is actually Japan at 66.5%, then South Korea at 62.5%, then other countries in Asia like, Philippines, Malaysia, Singapore, Taiwan, Hong Kong and etc...
So if you quickly look at the top 10 countries viewing the king, or had king in their top 10, you'll notice that they are the same Asian countries, where Asian dramas are already being highly watched. What about the other countries like US and Canada, or even Europe? Not in the top 10. What about France? the biggest consumer of Asian media in Europe? Not in the top 10. So basically it's not a 188M subscribers that the King is reaching. It's maybe more like the 21 million in the Asia Pacific region. And out of that 21 million subscribers, how many watched king, we will never know, since it's not clear how many actual subscribers it takes to be top 1 on the Netflix website. But hey, you know what 21M/188M is actually 11.2%, which is not that far from the viewership ratings of the King in the local South Korean domestic Market, the king Averaged 8.4% domestically. But I highly doubt all 21M APAC netflix subscribers watched the King, because it's a top 10 list. So imagine it's a staggered kind of ranking, like American Idol, so top vote getter or top 1 show is probably close to 15-20%. Assuming 20% it's closer to 4M APAC viewers.
With the way some of the fans have been commenting, you'd think that the King was being watched by more than half of the world, this could not be further from the truth. Further research will also show that those countries where the King is ranked high, don't actually have a high subscriber count, with South Korea, ironically being one of the higher subscription count. For example, Thailand, which has the king in it's top 10, actually has less than 1 million Netflix subscriber in 2020. I think Japan may have the highest subscriber count at approximately 3 million subscribers. Other countries like Malaysia, Singapore, Philippines, Hong Kong and etc... will have much lower counts.
So just based on the limited information available, plus the vague way Netflix factors the top 10 most watched, the actual numbers of watchers for the King, may not even exceed 5 million in Asia, which kind of proves that domestic success is still more important than success in Asia.
So when someone says Jackie Chan is a global star, I believe them, because he is literally known worldwide, and he has hollywood films to increase his legitimacy. When someone tells me Lee min ho or kim go eun are global stars, I am a skeptic, since being a star in Asia, is not the same as being a global star.
So is the king eternal monarch a global phenomenon? According to the facts in flix patrol and netflix financials. No. This myth has been busted. It seems to be popular in Asia though, but how popular we don't know, since that is another myth for another day.
Bonus Factoid:
Is Netflix a TV killer in South Korea?
To answer this question, we need to look at a country where Netflix is an actual TV killer. The best example of this is US. In the Us, there 119 Million TV households being monitored. In South Korea, the number is closer to 21 Million TV households. We know in the UCAN there are approx 71M subscribers, and I know from other source that 6M of that is in Canada. So that leaves US with 65M subscribers for 2020. With a TV viewing population of 119M, 65M accounts for approx 54% of the viewing population. That is massive, that more than 1 our of every 2 american tv household is a Netflix subscriber.
How about Korea? According to a Korea Herald article, the number of Netflix subscribers in South Korea is at 2 million. With 21 Million TV households, this accounts to a 9.5% market share for Netflix. Not exactly a TV killer in South Korea as compared to the US, but Netflix participation in APAC is quite new, and is likely to increase gradually in the succeeding years.
Source: Flixpatrol, Netflix financial statement ending June 30, 2020 (available online), Neilsens Korea and US, Google, and last but not the least, a Calculator.
I'm not sure if lee min ho's acting is bad, but rather it's quite stiff and repetitive, and very similar acting to his other roles. But I think this kind of acting, regardless of how bad it may be is popular to his fans. So as long as lee min ho remains popular, I doubt he will ever leave his comfort zone and try to learn actual acting in other roles.
Tons of bad actors with tons of fans, and good actors with little fans.
Well, that's just so silly, since most people won't appreciate those things. Like why spend so much money on costumes to satisfy the british royalty super fans.
Too bad, bae doona did quite well in Sense8, and there was some promise to the premise. Also, Bae Doona is currently Netflix's most bankable Korean Actress. She and Gong Yoo are coming up with a netflix original series. Not sure if it will be entirely produced by Netflix or rights being bought again, but I'm excited, as she is phenomenal. Her role in Kingdom was just perfect.
Traditionally, TV shows cater mostly to the 23-40 demographic., so that's the target market for most TV executives, they are also the largest demographic, TV watching wise.
Not true about Kpop, their music also fits the 23-40 demographics as well, it's huge with the working folks as well.
Thematically, mental illness shows like it's okay not tbe okay is more readily accepted in US as compared to Korea, but overall US just does not watch many asians shows in general, not counting Anime. Anime has a long history in North America, with many many Animes being dubbed in English and featuring in networks like cartoon network and etc...
If you ever watch a Kdrama that has the a major/minor character being either LGBTQ, a visible minority, or obese for a majority of the show's run, then I would argue, that show is being marketed towards international audiences, since those are very hot ticket items now in western shows, but still lack a major presence in Asia, especially in Korea and Japan. LGBTQ for example is quite visible in other south east asian countries like thailand, philippines, taiwan and etc...
I haven't watched stranger, so I can't comment on it, I heard it's good though.
Also, I would base international appeal for songs based on youtube count. Maze is at 2 million views. Another OST from a kim eun sook drama, Goblin, has 110 million views. Only time will tell if maze will become that popular, or even orbit.
Netflix has two korean produced dramas. Kingdom, and Love Alarm, all others are just rights being purchased by netflix. The number of Netflix Series kdrama is quite low compared to it's Netflix Series Anime, Japanese Shows, European Shows, Australian/New Zealand Shows, Mexican Shows, and Indian Shows. But it's higher than most of south east asia, and Chinese shows.
I would certainly hope that production cost for Kdrama is lower than US/UK shows considering the wage discrepancies alone in both countries. I actually never understood why the crown cost so much to produce, since I didn't feel there was much CGI, special effects, overuse of cosmetics and etc... that would balloon a production cost. Like umbrella academy costing a lot makes sense to me because of all the CGI that went into it. Same thing for get down, why does it cost so much? doesn't make sense to me. I know in US extras get paid anywhere from $400-$800 for a scene, in Korea, i'm sure that number is way lower, that's why you see so many extras in Kdramas.
Sense8 from what I know and read was considered a massive failure, they actually wanted to extend to another season, but due to it's high cost per episode and it's dismal ratings, decided not to.
According to flix patrol, the US watches 0.6% Asian shows. So I highly doubt CLOY and TKEM will really convert much people, considering the mass netflix population in the US doesn't watch Asian shows. Like i've said before, the way to convert more Kdrama watchers is through Kpop.
But you are on the last episode. Seems silly not to finish.
The show is seen as confusing because it asks way too many questions, and only gives answers to a few of them. But there are certainly similarities in the king with Goblin, and the OST is nice. But if there are things you are disliking this far in, they will still be there 12 episodes later.
As for the love story, this is not the way to appeal to western audience. In fact, from the sappy saccharine lines, to the way they show love, plus the longing gaze, and using subtle facial features to replace passionate love, this is all very in line with traditional kdrama formulas. Just watch, other international TV shows on Netflix and you'll see what I mean with how they portray romance.
In fact, if you want to see an asian show that made a show/movie that is very Hollywood, watch the Wandering Earth. If you told me, this was China made, I would be shocked. Its a movie that is really on par with other Hollywood disaster film. In fact, if i'm not mistaken, they even used some actors that came from international roots, like US. I feel that some of China/HK films are all global ready, and would be well accepted in the US. Korean movies, I think, are on the same level as Japanese movies, or one step ahead. Kdrama on the other hand, I feel is still far from that. With most people in the western world, only being able to name a few Kdrama, if any at all. And after a staple diet of TV shows like desperate housewives, grey's anatomy, DC based TV shows, hard to tell if most US audience would ever have a significant chunk enjoy Kdrama. Like a 2 hour korean movie here and there is fine, but a 16-20 hour Kdrama? Not so sure.
Google and Wikipedia is your friend, as most people will google the actor/actresses in international dramas, I know I do. People are more keen to watch a tv drama/movie if it's a well known actor/actress from a particular country. Like for example, that guy in slumdog millionaire is super popular in India, and increases the movie's street cred, considering the other two main actors are kind of no names at the time.
I think more global people would watch Mr. Sunshine, since Lee Byung Hun is a certified global star, with successful roles in RED 2, and GI Joe to name a few, he is probably more famous than Rain, globally.
Yes, I agree, most people's first foray into kdrama will be watching one drama, get hooked in the actor/actress, find other dramas they are in, and then they get addicted to Kdrama. But getting people to even start, is the hard part. Since Kdrama doesn't appeal to the global market yet. I think the first step would need to be Kpop getting even more popular. Once Kpop has reached critical mass, people will start googling Kpop songs that are being used for OST. Then they'll watch them on youtube, and be curious about the show. But we are still very far from that happening I feel, although Kpop has become really popular as of late.
It's not much of an extension tbh, Kpop is still the way to go. And, those shows you mentioned, none of them are in the top 10 in the western world, who are the biggest consumer of streaming content, which is effectively the true target market. Being big in Asia, for me is not as big of a deal, as being big in US/Europe. Because a lot of korean culture is already very similar to other asian countries culture. It's western culture where we find the partisanship. As streaming becomes bigger and bigger globally, I'm hoping Netflix takes more of a risk, and start producing Netflix produced, written, shows, rather than just buying rights. Their track record is getting better and better, with some of their movies/shows getting huge appeal outside of Netflix. It will eventually come to a point when Netflix can start generating more income by selling the rights of their original programming to other streaming providers.
I think in terms of Korean culture being consumed, I would ranked it this way.
1. Korean Food
2. Kpop
3. Korean Beauty Products
4. Korean Fashion
5. Korean Movies
6. Korean Variety Show
7. Korean Dramas
The reason Kdrama like it's ok not to be ok, the king, and crash landing on you sold well, is primarily due to it's star power more than anything. If these shows had unknown celebrities, I doubt we will be seeing streaming services buying up the rights to show these shows.
As much as it's fun to blame bandwagon, controversies and etc... for a films failure, there have been many films/shows that are mired in controversies, sexual abuse accusations, and etc... that still do very well. Not all international fans are aware of all the controversies of the king, and to imply that people on MDL vote based on the majority, insults their base intelligence. Because with that same mentality, any kdrama's comment section that has mostly negative views are unfairly rated then. thus we cannot trust any ratings in the world then, since it's all susceptible to bias. But we know this isn't true, people in general have independent thought and are not mindless zombies who can't think for themselves.
A lot of the negative attention the show has been getting has been the expectation. On paper, the show had everything it needed to be one of the best korean shows of 2020, and it just failed to deliver. In the end, the king was just your average kdrama that came in with huge expectation and failed deliver. If the king had unknown writers, and actors, and a smaller budget, maybe it would be considered better, but since it didn't, people reacted accordingly.
I actually think, that streaming companies, to cut cost, will start investing in better writers and directors, then front ending the cost on A-list actors to sell their movies/dramas. But at the moment, A-list actors/writers is still the formula to get larger market share. If umbrella academy is any indication, its definitely possible to achieve great results with less.
For netflix, because majority of their subscribers are not in Asia, they are focusing their original content on countries that have mass global appeal, and not just Asia appeal. Which means, they will continuously dub content from europe, australia, south america and etc... Because the mentality is, a global audience will more likely watch a show like money heist, than the king. Money Heist is not suppose to appeal to an Asian audience, but since it's popular in western world, it automatically becomes appealing to Asia. It doesn't work the other way around. One of the largest grossing film in China, Wolf Brigade, has almost zero presence outside of Asia.
Unfortunately, it means kdrama won't be getting mass global appeal anytime soon. But the success of parasite is encouraging.
Parasite made the rounds globally, since it's technically an art film as compared to a mainstream film. And as standard for those type of films, they normally go around the international film circuit like other similar type of korean films
For TV shows, it really doesn't make sense for them to market globally rather than locally. First off, a lot of korean production company don't have enough money to produce the entire show, relying heavily on PPL to fund the show. And most local advertisers won't sign on a show that isn't loved, or shown locally, since their products are almost entirely domestic. Two shows of korean origin that come to mind are Kingdom and Love Alarm, but both films, are actually paid for by Netflix budget. And if you've watched them, you'll see that they actually are produced in line with other netflix original series, and contain more hollywood type scripting than your regular kdrama. King isn't liike that, it's still made to appeal more to local audience, but unfortunately it didn't.
In the end, if kdrama wants to reach a global audience, they should first have it produced by Netflix, with netflix controling the writer, director, plotting, pacing and etc... Also they should work on bringing the film up to hollywood standards. I would also bring in some hollywood actors to act in the series,. LIke the tv series Snow piercer to get a more mass appeal. Also using korean actors with global appeal is another good way. actors like lee byung hun and bae doona. Unfortunately someone like kim go eun and lee min hos popularity doesn't extend pass asia, so they are not global draws.
Fun fact lee min ho gets paid more than any actor in umbrella academy per episode. Isn't that funny.
One thing i find kdrama have over western show is emotional investment. Western shows don't really prioritize emotional investment the same way kdrama does.
What's stopping king from making a show similar to umbrella academy in terms of writing, pacing, complexity and etc...? Its certainly not money as kings prod budget is huge.
Just disappointing as the king as people said had potential, but its going to be just another poorly written kdrama.
The king with a script and acting as good as umbrella academy could have maybe become popular globally, reaching bigger markers like us and europe. but instead its just stuck in its same old target market, which is asia.
I hope to someday see a kdrama reach parasite levels or train to busan levels of reach someday.
So no wonder umbrella academy is so much more popular than the king. makes sense, thanks for clarifying.
If you like king, umbrella academy will blow your mind!
Glad to know we are popular in other forums
I am going to keep working hard to make sure we don't lose this hard earned reputation.
I think you more or less represent the majority feelings from most fans on MDL, in fact your experience seem even more neutral than others.
If you like time travel stories, you definitely need to watch The Umbrella Academy, you won't regret your decision. It's a really well written time travel shows that has a non confusing plot, but retains a complexity that keeps you guessing after each episode. The cliffhangers on each episode makes the show very binge worthy as well.
Oh yeah, it also has waaaaaaayyyyyy more viewers than the King on Netflix, and it's top 10 most watched show on Netflix for 2020 according to flix patrol.
I kind of wish that Kdrama writing can start writing these type of sci-fi drama. There was potential for the king to have something like this, given the production budget, but I feel much of it is wasted on who knows what. And the umbrella academy didn't reinvent the wheel for it's plot, there are a lot of borrowed themes in it's story, yet it found a way to retain it's fresh coat.
The king on the other hand, tried to mix a new type of sci-fi plot, which failed miserably, with just a handful of super fans defending the complexity and sharpness of the plot. Disappointing, considering so many time travel/alternate tv shows are coming out left and right that is trumping the king globally, even on the romance side, it comes of as weak and can't compare to it's other Kdrama peers. I really felt this when I was watching the time travel concept of the umbrella academy. I was like, oh, how come the king could not just have written it this way.
And you really need to pick up a dictionary, because your definition of words are really off kilter. You say people are attacking super fans as yourself? By attacking, do you mean not agreeing with you? When does not agreeing with someone translate to attacking and harassing? I mean I am getting a little worried about your mental state when you get triggered by a message board like MDL, on a fictional TV show.
Hmm, best to read my previous work to answer your question, I actually took time to research it. You can manipulate data all you want, and bend the truth, but I bring in facts. Take the time to read what I wrote, and you will be enlightened my friend.
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Some people would have you believe that the king is beloved globally, and almost every single country is watching it. But i'd like to lay down some facts to bust this myth.
Mythbusters: The King Eternal Monarch edition.
According to Netflix's latest financial statement. Their current subscriber count as of June 30, 2020 is 187,903,000 or Approximately 188M subscribers.
The quick Breakdown is as follows.
United States and Canada (UCAN) - 71,437,000
Europe, Middle East and Africa (EMEA) - 60,109,000
Latin America (LATAM) - 35,193,000
Asia-Pacific (APAC) - 21,164,000
Total Subscribers = 187,903,000
A lot of the defenders of the show likes to use flixpatrol to defend the shows popularity globally. So i'll be using the same metric to be fair to them. Flix patrol has a new metric called Netflix Preference, and of particular importance is this stat called Netflix Preference by Region. Simply put, it shows Netflix subscribers preference when watching shows of which country and region. Here are the quick numbers.
European Shows - 22.1%
North American Shows - 63%
Latin America Shows - 4.5%
Asian Shows - 9.6%
Now a quick glance of the more detailed stat shows that in (UCAN), the amount of Asian shows being consumed is at 1.3% for Canada and in the US it's .6%. For the next biggest region for netflix subscribers (EMEA), the numbers are barely higher, with France ranking the highest at 3.5% of consumption.
So hmmm, where are asian shows, which include kdrama, most consumed? The top country consuming Asian dramas is actually Japan at 66.5%, then South Korea at 62.5%, then other countries in Asia like, Philippines, Malaysia, Singapore, Taiwan, Hong Kong and etc...
So if you quickly look at the top 10 countries viewing the king, or had king in their top 10, you'll notice that they are the same Asian countries, where Asian dramas are already being highly watched. What about the other countries like US and Canada, or even Europe? Not in the top 10. What about France? the biggest consumer of Asian media in Europe? Not in the top 10. So basically it's not a 188M subscribers that the King is reaching. It's maybe more like the 21 million in the Asia Pacific region. And out of that 21 million subscribers, how many watched king, we will never know, since it's not clear how many actual subscribers it takes to be top 1 on the Netflix website. But hey, you know what 21M/188M is actually 11.2%, which is not that far from the viewership ratings of the King in the local South Korean domestic Market, the king Averaged 8.4% domestically. But I highly doubt all 21M APAC netflix subscribers watched the King, because it's a top 10 list. So imagine it's a staggered kind of ranking, like American Idol, so top vote getter or top 1 show is probably close to 15-20%. Assuming 20% it's closer to 4M APAC viewers.
With the way some of the fans have been commenting, you'd think that the King was being watched by more than half of the world, this could not be further from the truth. Further research will also show that those countries where the King is ranked high, don't actually have a high subscriber count, with South Korea, ironically being one of the higher subscription count. For example, Thailand, which has the king in it's top 10, actually has less than 1 million Netflix subscriber in 2020. I think Japan may have the highest subscriber count at approximately 3 million subscribers. Other countries like Malaysia, Singapore, Philippines, Hong Kong and etc... will have much lower counts.
So just based on the limited information available, plus the vague way Netflix factors the top 10 most watched, the actual numbers of watchers for the King, may not even exceed 5 million in Asia, which kind of proves that domestic success is still more important than success in Asia.
So when someone says Jackie Chan is a global star, I believe them, because he is literally known worldwide, and he has hollywood films to increase his legitimacy. When someone tells me Lee min ho or kim go eun are global stars, I am a skeptic, since being a star in Asia, is not the same as being a global star.
So is the king eternal monarch a global phenomenon? According to the facts in flix patrol and netflix financials. No. This myth has been busted. It seems to be popular in Asia though, but how popular we don't know, since that is another myth for another day.
Bonus Factoid:
Is Netflix a TV killer in South Korea?
To answer this question, we need to look at a country where Netflix is an actual TV killer. The best example of this is US. In the Us, there 119 Million TV households being monitored. In South Korea, the number is closer to 21 Million TV households. We know in the UCAN there are approx 71M subscribers, and I know from other source that 6M of that is in Canada. So that leaves US with 65M subscribers for 2020. With a TV viewing population of 119M, 65M accounts for approx 54% of the viewing population. That is massive, that more than 1 our of every 2 american tv household is a Netflix subscriber.
How about Korea? According to a Korea Herald article, the number of Netflix subscribers in South Korea is at 2 million. With 21 Million TV households, this accounts to a 9.5% market share for Netflix. Not exactly a TV killer in South Korea as compared to the US, but Netflix participation in APAC is quite new, and is likely to increase gradually in the succeeding years.
Source: Flixpatrol, Netflix financial statement ending June 30, 2020 (available online), Neilsens Korea and US, Google, and last but not the least, a Calculator.
And i'm going to stop responding to this thread since your not making any sense for a while now, and i've kind of lost interest talking to a wall.
If, or when you decide to act like an adult we can continue to talk again. otherwise cest la vie!