BadPenny

I am thirsty for Boun/Prem.

And yes, I hated the Taming of the Shrew. The Idea that Kuea needs reigned in or his temperament "fixed" is kind of nauseating.

It doesn't matter what he wants to do later, when he is sober. What happened when he wasn't sober is, by definition, still something he could not consent to. Just because he wasn't upset with it has nothing to do with whether it was consentual. People who are drunk can't consent.

My Forever Sunshine is really a sick show by the sound of it. Awful! And I know glorifying lack of consent is prevalent in all genres. And while, the incident in Cutie Pie wasn't the worst I've seen, it's part of a bigger pattern of behavior with lian that is NOT healthy or cute.

I hear you, hon. I hope it gets to be an easier place for you to be. Hugs!

No need to be scared. Everyone is allowed to have an opinion on the show.

I had to recently look into Thai Identification Cards and I saw that scene and was like, "Wait. WTF! That number is like our SSN. You don't just give that to people.

But we'll see. Tomorrow I hope some stuff is resolved and like you said, not just brushed over.

I agree with you. But don't worry too much about the "If you don't like it, leave" crowd. They exist literally everywhere. Just post on whatever strikes your fancy, good or bad. Most of the fervor is going to die down eventually once people get used to the idea that this isn't just a place for positive feedback on the show.

Lian's actor, Zee, is very skilled and he's definitely pulled off a very convincing moral grayness. Lian, on top of the shady behaviors, is also quite a hypocrite. He condemns Kuea's secrets while having so many of his own and using many of the same tactics to keep them. And manipulation is second nature to him.

We'll have to see what of his actions, if any, get addressed. I doubt he'll actually make amends for any of it. I suspect it will all get explained away.

The whole thing isn't irredeemable, but they are going to have to start working on addressing some of this stuff. And I do find elements of the show enjoyable.

BTW, I also found it weird that Kuea named his bike Dragon too. Also, how the fuck did Kuea get ahold of Lian's Thai Identification Card number?

Yes! Thank you. You actually managed to be more succinct than me and I appreciate that. I always use ten words for every 1 I need.

I am queer. I've never made any bones about that. And I get very sick of problematical stereotypes in gay media. And they do have an impact on society.

I am not sure why I have to justify my views on TharnType. But sure, since you've decided to go there, I totally addressed that about TharnType and several other non-con elements when I reviewed it.

So... No. There is no inconsistency in my approach.

I do love TharnType for the superb acting and the complexity of the character backstories and other elements. I am still an enormous Mew fan and the new drama he's working on for this fall will doubtless keep me on the edge of my seat. But I also was very highly critical of numerous elements in the plot of Tharntype. I never hid that in the least. I didn't excuse it for what it was. I didn't say it was sexy or sweet, nor did I skip any of the problems. I called them all out. Each element in the show where Type or Tharn did something ethically questionable and I felt it could have been made more clear it was a bad thing.

Dubcon was created as a way to soft pedal and relabel something that is clearly non-consensual in a way that makes people feel less icky about liking it. It's non-con.

You keep talking about how popular it is, and I keep saying I don't care. You can tolerate it in your shows without comment if you want. No one is saying you can't. That's just not how I approach the fiction I watch.

And I'm not harassing anyone. I am responding to posts that specifically were complaints about me posting my views of the drama. There are a lot of people here who don't want me to post my views and they spend more time complaining about my opinion than they do talking about the show. If someone is complaining about my views I reserve the right to answer them.

And like I said, you can tolerate the noncon in the fiction you watch if you want. I don't care. I'm still going to call it out. No matter how many times I see it. No matter how many times people complain about me doing so.

I know what dub-con in. Just like I know what non-con is. I don't care if it's a fictional trope that is popular. It should be metered carefully to make sure that when it's presented in a fiction it's presented as a crime, an assault, and not as a romantic fixture.

If people want stories where their non-consensual kink gets satisfied, there's plenty of porn for that. In actual dramatic stories, non-con should only be framed as the terrible thing that it is. I don't care how popular the trope is. I don't care how many straight women are out there fetishizing gayness without understanding a damn thing about the culture of being gay. I don't care how many of them obsess over fake non-con. In a story where a non-con act is part of the plot it should only be contextualized as the breach of agency and trust that it is.

This is a really simple concept.

No one discussing the non-consensual act in the show thinks it was real. You all crack me up with that one. We've been discussing creator responsibility, technical things like the music and how that was part of the problem and several elements that should clue you in that we know we're talking about fiction.

As for the trope, well fiction of any kind affects the overall fabric of culture because art is a reflection of society and society is in turn affected by art. This is a sociological fact backed by enormous amounts of research.

We KNOW for a fact that putting non-consensual acts in a show and then dramatizing them in a way that contextualizes them as romantic increases normalization of non-con in real life culture. And some of the very ridiculously awful understandings of consent that have been demonstrated in this comments section is a good indicator.

Look, like I've been telling people here, if you get off on non-con in a story, fine. But those of us who don't are well within our rights to protest it. So you have your opinion and we have ours.

No one is acting like Lian raped anyone. Trust me, that would be a real shit storm.

As for Tharntype no, I didn't say anything in it's comments section. It aired way, way before I was even on MDL.

And I don't have to leave Cutie Pie alone just because you want me to. I've actually spent far more of my time responding to people like you who think that no one should be allowed to criticize the show than I've actually spent reviewing the show. So how about this. You accept that people can use the comments section the way it was meant to be used, which is for ANYONE to give feedback on the show. And don't worry about what I'm posting. Just enjoy the show.

A person's inaction or silence can only be taken as consent under the auspices that THEY ARE CAPABLE OF CONSENT. You keep coming up with these weirdo loopholes that aren't really loopholes. Because they fly around bouncing into the wall of facts about consent that I've already given you.

Drunkeness is automatically rules out the ability to consent. For reasons I have already laid out for you many times. It does not matter if Kuea was silent. It does not matter if he was humming Dixie while being kissed. It does not matter if Kuea was stripping naked and screaming "Lian, give me some of that good dick!". He was not able to consent. Drunk people can't consent, no matter what you say to get around it.

And being limp like a dead fish is not the legal or medical definition of an impairment that rules out the ability to consent. But by all means, keep dancing your dance of the oblivious.

Making a choice while drunk is not the same as possessing the faculty to consent. You missed the part where I mentioned numerous people, when drunk, choose to do things they would never do sober. Which is why if they are drunk they cannot consent. They are too impaired to meet the legal, ethical, cultural and logical minimum requirement of consent. They are in an altered state of consciousness. This LEGALLY means they aren't able to consent, even if they are babbling about how coherent they are. Even if they are stripping down to their bathing suit or any number of stupid, irrational or dangerous choices people make when they are very drunk.
The level of drunk that means a person cannot consent has an actual blood alcohol level to it. But there are practical markers too and I've mentioned those but you aren't getting it.

But just for the sake of saying I gave it my all, Kuea's lack of fitness to consent can be tracked this way. Since Lian (and Jay) assessed that Kuea was too impaired to be alowed to make his own choice about what he wanted to do with his evening (which was stay at the bar), this automatically means he's too impaired to make ANY decisions about what he might want to do. Whether that's staying at the bar, dancing, fighting or kissing.

So no. No matter how you wiggle around and try to find a way to avoid it, that kiss was non-consensual. Just call a spade a spade.

Now, at this point I feel like I've explained this to you enough that if you don't get it now, you simply are unwilling to get it. Which means I'm done with the conversation. Feel free to make all the stupid, illogical and patently wrong arguments and false equivalencies you want. At this point it says way more about you than it says about the kiss in the car.

I'm actually excited for episode 4 because several people have mentioned it's a make or break moment for them. And I am not sure at all which way this episode it going to go. I don't intend to read the book until such a time as I've watched the drama because I want to judge it on its own merits.

I am looking forward to whatever song happens. Since I am actually getting attached to Kuea's singing.

I am really in love with New's singing voice. It would be nice if after the series he did an album. I adore music. It's part of everything I do. Even when I am script writing I have something playing in the background. So the one really appealing thing to me about this show was the music.

Thank you! And yeah, this was not good. I think the scene was bad. Really bad. But what's actually worse is the sheer number of people excusing it because of love or relationship status.

It's okay to say "look, It's non-con, sure. But I'm just not taking the plot that seriously." If that's your thing, fine. But there are people aggressively defending the kiss on the terms that romantic love or relationship status is some kind of replacement for consent. And I'm like...wow.

I am really worried about your idea of consent. You seem to be missing the main base criteria for consent. Which is sobriety/consciousness.

That's the absolute base requirement. If a person is very drunk or drugged or in some other way impaired, then that base requirement has not been met and ANYTHING that happens afterwards is without consent by virtue of the fact that the minimum criteria for consent is absent. How Kuea reacted to it is entirely beside the point because he was in an altered state of consciousness. That's what drunkenness is.

This base requirement for consent is codified in most of the legal systems in the West. And it's codified in Thailand's legal system. Full consciousness is required for consent. This isn't debatable, it's a legal, ethical fact. That you are ignoring it or trying to find ways to get around it changes absolutely nothing.