Liltsu

"People can go to people you know to people you dont" trend but with Not Me:

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMNwAgNtV/

Tried not to make Sean's fall look too funny

Oh thank you so much🥰

The way payu comforted rain in this scene was so heart-warming, i had ro make this edit:

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMNTQknuS/

Puen/Tun going from faking it to actually developping real feelings:

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMNvbu3ga/

I find that their love story has one of the most natural progression in a series, its rare to see

I think whilst you’re right in saying that Shin didn’t have full-blown romantic feelings for Minato when they first met, I think that the moment was memorable enough for him to keep him in his mind, and so when they met again, I feel like it’s more so an opportunity for Shin to spend more time with Minato to be able to actually love him. It’s what Shin implies, that he was given a chance, not just to get closer to him, but also to understand his own feelings better (that’s how I interpret it at least,) but I’ll admit it’s still ambiguous and questionable for this point.

For the next idea you presented, about how there are few scenes in which we see Shin develop feelings for Minato, I think that by showing them hanging out, having dinner and stuff like that is what gets Shin to develop deeper feelings for Minato. Sure, there isn’t a clear-cut reason for why he does like Minato (like how in some series, the cliche is that a character sees another character rescuing a cat or smth which makes them intrigued, showing that it’s their warmth attracted them to that person).

However, I don’t think it’s necessary for there to be a clear reason, because oftentimes, exposure to someone is what allows people to love, especially when one already has a positive impression about someone. Shin is first curious about Minato (oh he’s back in this hometown, why is that? What’s the reason he’s taking over this laundromat, how is he so welcoming yet so silly? Etc). Then this transforms into care and affection as he gets to see Minato joke around with him, blush and get shy, all those sides that make him likeable and cute in Shin’s eyes. I mean, Minato is friendly, goofy, endearing, fun to tease and to bicker with. Sure, it would have been nice to have more scene where they talk more about serious topics but you can see the gradual attachment they form for one another.

I disagree the most with your last point to be honest. It’s very possible that Shin has an abandonment issue, but if that was true, there would be more signs to indicate that. For example, that it would negatively affect other areas in his life, because that’s the problem with those kinds of issues: they tend to be damaging and lead to self-destructive behaviour, and that’s why it’s unhealthy, especially for a romantic relationship. But you see that on the contrary, Shin gets great results on his exams after the rejection, showing that even without Minato, he can go on about his life without issues. And the only reason why it was affecting his grades before, wasn’t because he was obsessed with Minato in general (which would then continue if they were to date), but because he was anxious about having to make a decision for his future, not knowing what to decide on because he needed Minato’s answer before moving on. It also shows, that if rejected, he would probably go to Tokyo and live independently, because he’d have no reason to stay. Proving that he’s not dependent on Minato.

You also need to consider tone and nuance. When Shin is rejected, he looks extremely sad about it but not agitated. What this means is that there isn’t a deep-seated worry coming from him about needing to be in Minato’s presence. He’s sad because his feelings weren’t reciprocated but his lack of anger and frustration shows that on the other hand, he can accept that. He can accept that Minato can’t be with him romantically, can accept that he will eventually need to go on about his life, without him. If he had an abandonment issue, he would be a lot more desperate, and therefore we would see agitation, anxiety or worry in him, especially when telling Minato about wanting to help him find his happiness. On the contrary, he’s quite calm about it, and gentle. He’s just expressing his inner wish to see Minato happy, without expecting anything in return, not even Minato’s company. So that’s why, if he can, he’d like to help with that. It may also be a way for him to process this rejection better, but you can tell from his mannerisms and facial expressions that this isn’t a desperate attempt at staying by his side, rather it feels more like a farewell.


About the age gap, there is always that risk of course, and I understand where you’re coming from. I tend to be quite sceptical about that myself. Though, I think that the biggest issue that a relationship with an age gap can have is a power imbalance, and that’s something that isn’t present in theirs at all, in my view. the two treat each other as equals, as though they were the same age, and it truly feels like it. As for whether if Shin actually feels love, I feel inclined to say yes (though of course they could have developed this better) because they didn’t keep in contact after he was first saved, and they didn’t know each other before either. Basically they have no further connection apart from that. Had Minato stayed around and watched Shin grow up, then I could easily say that, well, Shin may be confusing affection to an older and kind “brother” for love, and then it would be more questionable if Minato was developing feelings since he could have influenced him. Since that isn’t the case, it feels more like a love that was nurtured in the present moment, that was possible because Shin wanted to know more about him due their incidental first meeting.

Those are my thoughts on it, thank you for your previous answer, I appreciate your take :)

I can’t really judge the kind of love you’re experiencing, but even if what you’re feeling isn’t unconditional love, then more than selfish, it just makes you human :)

I really hope there will be a second season bc how else am i gonna survive😖

Missing Big hours:

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMNvftw2N/

Indeed ^^ i wish the series would explore it a bit more tho but it’s intriguing

I get where you’re coming from tbh, I think the fact that they added that fantasy element of Shin liking Minato ever since he was a child, makes it harder to decipher especially since the writing doesn’t really develop what made him develop such feelings properly. Technically he only feels that way for Minato because he was saved by him from drowning. Psychologically, if we dumb it down to that, you’d be right in saying that it isn’t love, just something that ressembles the Suspension Bridge Effect (confusing love with the excitement/nervousness of a dangerous situation).

Given that this is fiction, however, we see in the present time, that Shin has a lot of affection for Minato, cares about Minato’s feelings and is clear and communicative about his feelings. Whilst he can be a bit pushy, he isn’t forceful either. Every time, he seeks Minato’s permission first such as when he asked if he can start courting Minato and then backing off when Minato tells him that he cannot return his feelings. Based on his own words, as well, with how he says that he will love Minato by himself if need be, without getting in Minato’s way, and helping Minato achieve happiness, I still feel like the label “unconditional love” is very suitable to him. Idk what you think

To me, Shin really represents unconditonal love or at least, pure love. He loves Minato without expecting or needing his feelings to be returned. He loves Minato to the extent where he not only is willing to let go of him for his sake but even encourages and wants to help Minato find his own happiness. Even if that means helping Minato date someone else. That is true love, in my view, when you are able to love the person as they are, and feel happiness for their happiness :

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMNv2EdeE/

That is what Shin symbolizes in my opinion (like i put in this edit ^^)

Bl/kdrama/cdrama characters and what they represent :

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMNv2EdeE/

I included Akk in there 😊

Haha I see what you mean, I appreciate your comments again <3. I think some people aren’t so used to sharing their opinions on stuff like this so they’re also not as used to hearing different arguments, so it can throw them off a bit. But of course, it’s important to stay respectful and listen to what others have to say. Doing so can even strengthen one’s own arguments or give it more depth. Other than that it can offer a new perspective or sometimes even change our mind which can be wonderful in some ways too.

No problem at all, your English is excellent, I wouldn’t have been able to tell that it’s not your first language (what is your native language by the way, if I may ask, out of curiosity?).

Yes I think so too! Or if it is intentional they may view it differently too. It’s still quite ambiguous in that way.

About the last point, I don’t really agree because of the way they’ve marketed the series. The trailer, for example, emphasises the idea of showing the reality of a BL actor’s life and the issues that come with that (of course with some fictional elements too). I think if it wasn’t aiming to criticise some aspects of the industry, it would just focus on the individual characters which just happen to be BL actors. So we’d see more of the characters in their personal life, outside etc without showing the problems within like with the managers and producers. Instead, they would avoid showing the people from the industry or they would portray them with a lot less distinction, with a more neutral or even a positive lens. But instead it vividly showcases life at work. So in my view their intentions are about offering a critical perspective to some degree.

Ohh you’re also a manga reader? That’s so neat, what sorts of stuff have you read recently? And yep it can be.

Exactly, it was such an easy way out but perhaps something else will happen later down the line that will make Pan realise how he has behaved toward Nott, and learns to be kinder and more aware of his actions (at least I hope).

Yes, I think so too actually! I thought it would be a lot more light-hearted so this is pleasantly surprising in some ways

Bl edit with vice versa:

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMN7GesyU/

Thank you for replying, I appreciate your arguments, I find them very interesting and perfectly relevant ^^

Whilst I know where you’re coming from about your first point, I still see it a bit differently. I think you’re right in saying that, yes it’s still a bl and therefore has fictional qualities. It doesn’t have to be entirely realistic and can even have a lot of fantastical elements to it as it’s a story after all. So, for example, the characters could have genuinely started off as enemy rivals and then love each other by the end. It could be very dramatic even or exaggerated. It can have such aspects of fantasy in it, of course.

Lovely Writer for example, a series I really like myself, is quite unrealistic when you think about it. The other ML, Nubsib, has been in love with the ML, Gene, ever since they were children and came back to Thailand just to meet him again (even going so far as to act in a series to be around him). It’s not exactly realistic, and that’s fine. The thing is that, similarly to War of Y, Lovely Writer tries to reflect the current issues present in the BL industry. These include homophobia and injustice toward LGBTQ actors (only hiring actors that are straight-passing like Nubsib) or how BL actors are forbidden to date and forced to pair with the one they’re shipped with. Lovely Writer was very clever with this last point because the two protagonists are actually not a shipped pair, Nubsib is the actor who is paired with one of his co-stars (I forget his name), whilst Gene is the writer of the series Nubsib is acting in. This makes the audience naturally root for the “non-shipped couple”, the couple behind-the-scenes if you will.

So we understand how, in real life, BL actors’ private life is negatively affected with how companies and fans alike are pressuring and basically forcing these actors to pretend to be a couple with their co-stars, and how the actors play along with this (it’s essentially queer baiting and fetishising). And we see how the negative effect with how Nubsib and Gene need to hide their relationship and how, at some point, Gene feels too much pressure and even breaks up with Nubsib because he can’t take it anymore. So even though the story has elements of unrealism because, as you said, it’s not an actual documentary, it’’s still a BL/fictional story, it still properly addresses real issues that affect real LGBTQ+ individuals.

War of Y is presenting itself in a similar way as Lovely Writer, a series that tries to uncover what goes on behind-the-scenes of the BL industry (that’s literally the premise) and also addressing some of the prevalent issues in it. One of them being how executives or people in power are touching their actors inappropriately so that these same actors are even given a chance at getting a role, or how pressuring it is for “shipped pairs” to always act like they’re together, have to do skinship, and are scrutinised for their every moment (obviously negatively impacting their private life). Then also showing how damaging that is to the actors’ mental health. This, the series does really well at too, I’d say at least.

So, because of that, I’m just a bit sceptical about the amount of sex scenes the series implements. Not just the ones the characters act for but also the ones outside of their roles. The series has such scenes so frequently and they’re always so sexualised in my view. And again, that would be fine if the series tried to imply that, at the very least, the sexual scenes that the characters act in were excessive or reducing same sex relationships to just that (vs the sex scenes between the characters in their private life).

There’s a bit of discrepancy with this in the narrative: for example, you see the managers always worrying about how sexual the scenes are but the managers are portrayed as a bit ridiculous and too demanding for doing so, especially because the two protagonists on the other hand are, again, shown to enjoy acting those scenes. I feel like they could have either reduced the amount of such scenes that are shown, and instead having more scenes of the characters interacting outside of their jobs ( though I thought it was great to see them visit Pan’s hometown and chilling by the lake). The reason why I say this is that, their messaging is a bit vague. the sex scenes that the characters act in their professional life and the ones in the hotel room feel the same. And again I just wonder if the series isn’t just (maybe unintentionally even) sexualising the protagonists in the same way as the BL shows that they’re trying to criticise.Idk if you see what i mean

Totally agree with your second point. That would be fascinating to debate about as well (the idea of labelling BL the way it is).

I get what you’re saying about the audience as well. I think you’re referring to how sex scenes in general are portrayed (queer or not), that’s it’s not that realistic and stuff. But rather, I’m more so critiquing the association of queer relationships to sex. What I mean is that, with straight romance, it’s first and foremost shown as romantic (almost always only this even), whereas (especially in the west), queer relationships are reduced to sex only, as if there wasn’t a romantic element to it or that these relationships are sexualised to satisfy fetishist fantasies. Ex: straight men jerking off to lesbian porn and then only objectifying real lesbians. So, War of Y carries the risk of doing so if the relationship between the MLs are defined by such scenes. Or at least it makes you wonder about the series’ intentions in filling up the run time with sex scenes.

Yes, you’d be right in saying that are still limits to how much can be addressed in a show, and how it’s not always necessary to always mention every issue as that would be impossible to touch on everything fully (it’s totally fine to focus on one issue for ex). It’s just, when a series is passing off as aware of the current issues that plague an industry, they need to be careful not for their presentations of ideas to backfire. For example, in VegasPete, to avoid their relationship as coming off as romanticised they added a scary BGM during their sex scene to convey the idea that there was something inherently questionable about this turn of events.

Regardless, it’s a lot of fun to debate about this (for me, at least), so thank you again for your answers. Sorry for the long-winded answer!

Hihi nice to see you again, thank you~~ makes me happy :D

I totally agree with you there, it’s a shame that some BL have adopted such features, and welp it especially originates from Japanese manga that were even worse (some being pedophilic and stuff), but thankfully other BLs are stepping away from that step by step and offering such educational representation to boot so I’m glad that’s happening.

I empathise with Pan but I do have to agree with you there, especially with the new episode, which gave me so much second-hand embarassment. I think his su!c!de attempt, for example, made sense in the narrative given how self-destructive and impulsive he can be, but I thought it was a shame the way it transitioned so suddenly to the main characters being all lovey-dovey again. To some extent, I had a feeling about it, but it was irritating that they used another plot device to make the characters grow closer again. That would have been still alright by me if it hadn’t been for the fact that the other ML apologised when Pan didn’t. I felt i glossed over some crucial character development and made the writing of the show weaker. I still enjoy the realism of their personalities though (especially with the other ML having slept with Fang and how that’s resurfacing now).

Yess exactly for the last point, it makes you wonder if the show isn’t just using the excuse of criticising such tropes only to use them for themselves and profit off of this (killing two birds with one stone or smth, by adhering to the fans who demand more aware yet also those who crave sex). But we shall see later on if they become clearer about the presence of such scenes, especially with the later stories, so I’m looking forward to that.
I think the series in itself is enjoyable otherwise because it does seem to try to convey some sense of reality which could end up being quite scandalous (particularly with the story with the two guys who are shipped but where one of them is actually dating the girl who’s always filming their content etc).

I like how you did a breakdown of the different sex scenes that the characters filmed and how some of them do indeed show how it can affect actors negatively (I almost forgot the scene with Pan breaking down). And you named it, even with those details, I feel like they are still too vague and confusing to the extent where most people will still only see the sexual side of those scenes. However, Kinnporsche also had a similar issue where a lot of fans were debating about the SA/possible rape and a lot had assumed that Porsche was just having difficulties accepting his sexuality (which was also a little bit the case) but were denying his trauma. The difference to me was that that series did trace it back properly to that specific event (ex: Porsche having flashbacks to the SA/dubcon and how it was hurting him and how Kinn apologised sincerely about it, not to mention how even the father gave Porsche a week of rest to make a decision, signalling how bad that had affected Porsche). War of Y was a little bit more vague about it in my view, where you could trace back his mental breakdown during the sex scene to the pressure he was putting on himself in general as an actor, which is something that pertains to any famous person (the insecurities of people who associate their self-worth to their fame). Rather than conveying the idea that the abundance of sex scenes are sexualising mlm, which is a separate issue.

thank you for reading my long ass analysis and taking the time to reply ^^

Xue Yang and Xiao Xingchen edit cause i like angst:

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMNWggsQ2/