Liltsu

I really hope there will be a second season bc how else am i gonna survive😖

Missing Big hours:

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMNvftw2N/

Indeed ^^ i wish the series would explore it a bit more tho but it’s intriguing

I get where you’re coming from tbh, I think the fact that they added that fantasy element of Shin liking Minato ever since he was a child, makes it harder to decipher especially since the writing doesn’t really develop what made him develop such feelings properly. Technically he only feels that way for Minato because he was saved by him from drowning. Psychologically, if we dumb it down to that, you’d be right in saying that it isn’t love, just something that ressembles the Suspension Bridge Effect (confusing love with the excitement/nervousness of a dangerous situation).

Given that this is fiction, however, we see in the present time, that Shin has a lot of affection for Minato, cares about Minato’s feelings and is clear and communicative about his feelings. Whilst he can be a bit pushy, he isn’t forceful either. Every time, he seeks Minato’s permission first such as when he asked if he can start courting Minato and then backing off when Minato tells him that he cannot return his feelings. Based on his own words, as well, with how he says that he will love Minato by himself if need be, without getting in Minato’s way, and helping Minato achieve happiness, I still feel like the label “unconditional love” is very suitable to him. Idk what you think

To me, Shin really represents unconditonal love or at least, pure love. He loves Minato without expecting or needing his feelings to be returned. He loves Minato to the extent where he not only is willing to let go of him for his sake but even encourages and wants to help Minato find his own happiness. Even if that means helping Minato date someone else. That is true love, in my view, when you are able to love the person as they are, and feel happiness for their happiness :

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMNv2EdeE/

That is what Shin symbolizes in my opinion (like i put in this edit ^^)

Bl/kdrama/cdrama characters and what they represent :

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMNv2EdeE/

I included Akk in there 😊

Haha I see what you mean, I appreciate your comments again <3. I think some people aren’t so used to sharing their opinions on stuff like this so they’re also not as used to hearing different arguments, so it can throw them off a bit. But of course, it’s important to stay respectful and listen to what others have to say. Doing so can even strengthen one’s own arguments or give it more depth. Other than that it can offer a new perspective or sometimes even change our mind which can be wonderful in some ways too.

No problem at all, your English is excellent, I wouldn’t have been able to tell that it’s not your first language (what is your native language by the way, if I may ask, out of curiosity?).

Yes I think so too! Or if it is intentional they may view it differently too. It’s still quite ambiguous in that way.

About the last point, I don’t really agree because of the way they’ve marketed the series. The trailer, for example, emphasises the idea of showing the reality of a BL actor’s life and the issues that come with that (of course with some fictional elements too). I think if it wasn’t aiming to criticise some aspects of the industry, it would just focus on the individual characters which just happen to be BL actors. So we’d see more of the characters in their personal life, outside etc without showing the problems within like with the managers and producers. Instead, they would avoid showing the people from the industry or they would portray them with a lot less distinction, with a more neutral or even a positive lens. But instead it vividly showcases life at work. So in my view their intentions are about offering a critical perspective to some degree.

Ohh you’re also a manga reader? That’s so neat, what sorts of stuff have you read recently? And yep it can be.

Exactly, it was such an easy way out but perhaps something else will happen later down the line that will make Pan realise how he has behaved toward Nott, and learns to be kinder and more aware of his actions (at least I hope).

Yes, I think so too actually! I thought it would be a lot more light-hearted so this is pleasantly surprising in some ways

Bl edit with vice versa:

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMN7GesyU/

Thank you for replying, I appreciate your arguments, I find them very interesting and perfectly relevant ^^

Whilst I know where you’re coming from about your first point, I still see it a bit differently. I think you’re right in saying that, yes it’s still a bl and therefore has fictional qualities. It doesn’t have to be entirely realistic and can even have a lot of fantastical elements to it as it’s a story after all. So, for example, the characters could have genuinely started off as enemy rivals and then love each other by the end. It could be very dramatic even or exaggerated. It can have such aspects of fantasy in it, of course.

Lovely Writer for example, a series I really like myself, is quite unrealistic when you think about it. The other ML, Nubsib, has been in love with the ML, Gene, ever since they were children and came back to Thailand just to meet him again (even going so far as to act in a series to be around him). It’s not exactly realistic, and that’s fine. The thing is that, similarly to War of Y, Lovely Writer tries to reflect the current issues present in the BL industry. These include homophobia and injustice toward LGBTQ actors (only hiring actors that are straight-passing like Nubsib) or how BL actors are forbidden to date and forced to pair with the one they’re shipped with. Lovely Writer was very clever with this last point because the two protagonists are actually not a shipped pair, Nubsib is the actor who is paired with one of his co-stars (I forget his name), whilst Gene is the writer of the series Nubsib is acting in. This makes the audience naturally root for the “non-shipped couple”, the couple behind-the-scenes if you will.

So we understand how, in real life, BL actors’ private life is negatively affected with how companies and fans alike are pressuring and basically forcing these actors to pretend to be a couple with their co-stars, and how the actors play along with this (it’s essentially queer baiting and fetishising). And we see how the negative effect with how Nubsib and Gene need to hide their relationship and how, at some point, Gene feels too much pressure and even breaks up with Nubsib because he can’t take it anymore. So even though the story has elements of unrealism because, as you said, it’s not an actual documentary, it’’s still a BL/fictional story, it still properly addresses real issues that affect real LGBTQ+ individuals.

War of Y is presenting itself in a similar way as Lovely Writer, a series that tries to uncover what goes on behind-the-scenes of the BL industry (that’s literally the premise) and also addressing some of the prevalent issues in it. One of them being how executives or people in power are touching their actors inappropriately so that these same actors are even given a chance at getting a role, or how pressuring it is for “shipped pairs” to always act like they’re together, have to do skinship, and are scrutinised for their every moment (obviously negatively impacting their private life). Then also showing how damaging that is to the actors’ mental health. This, the series does really well at too, I’d say at least.

So, because of that, I’m just a bit sceptical about the amount of sex scenes the series implements. Not just the ones the characters act for but also the ones outside of their roles. The series has such scenes so frequently and they’re always so sexualised in my view. And again, that would be fine if the series tried to imply that, at the very least, the sexual scenes that the characters act in were excessive or reducing same sex relationships to just that (vs the sex scenes between the characters in their private life).

There’s a bit of discrepancy with this in the narrative: for example, you see the managers always worrying about how sexual the scenes are but the managers are portrayed as a bit ridiculous and too demanding for doing so, especially because the two protagonists on the other hand are, again, shown to enjoy acting those scenes. I feel like they could have either reduced the amount of such scenes that are shown, and instead having more scenes of the characters interacting outside of their jobs ( though I thought it was great to see them visit Pan’s hometown and chilling by the lake). The reason why I say this is that, their messaging is a bit vague. the sex scenes that the characters act in their professional life and the ones in the hotel room feel the same. And again I just wonder if the series isn’t just (maybe unintentionally even) sexualising the protagonists in the same way as the BL shows that they’re trying to criticise.Idk if you see what i mean

Totally agree with your second point. That would be fascinating to debate about as well (the idea of labelling BL the way it is).

I get what you’re saying about the audience as well. I think you’re referring to how sex scenes in general are portrayed (queer or not), that’s it’s not that realistic and stuff. But rather, I’m more so critiquing the association of queer relationships to sex. What I mean is that, with straight romance, it’s first and foremost shown as romantic (almost always only this even), whereas (especially in the west), queer relationships are reduced to sex only, as if there wasn’t a romantic element to it or that these relationships are sexualised to satisfy fetishist fantasies. Ex: straight men jerking off to lesbian porn and then only objectifying real lesbians. So, War of Y carries the risk of doing so if the relationship between the MLs are defined by such scenes. Or at least it makes you wonder about the series’ intentions in filling up the run time with sex scenes.

Yes, you’d be right in saying that are still limits to how much can be addressed in a show, and how it’s not always necessary to always mention every issue as that would be impossible to touch on everything fully (it’s totally fine to focus on one issue for ex). It’s just, when a series is passing off as aware of the current issues that plague an industry, they need to be careful not for their presentations of ideas to backfire. For example, in VegasPete, to avoid their relationship as coming off as romanticised they added a scary BGM during their sex scene to convey the idea that there was something inherently questionable about this turn of events.

Regardless, it’s a lot of fun to debate about this (for me, at least), so thank you again for your answers. Sorry for the long-winded answer!

Hihi nice to see you again, thank you~~ makes me happy :D

I totally agree with you there, it’s a shame that some BL have adopted such features, and welp it especially originates from Japanese manga that were even worse (some being pedophilic and stuff), but thankfully other BLs are stepping away from that step by step and offering such educational representation to boot so I’m glad that’s happening.

I empathise with Pan but I do have to agree with you there, especially with the new episode, which gave me so much second-hand embarassment. I think his su!c!de attempt, for example, made sense in the narrative given how self-destructive and impulsive he can be, but I thought it was a shame the way it transitioned so suddenly to the main characters being all lovey-dovey again. To some extent, I had a feeling about it, but it was irritating that they used another plot device to make the characters grow closer again. That would have been still alright by me if it hadn’t been for the fact that the other ML apologised when Pan didn’t. I felt i glossed over some crucial character development and made the writing of the show weaker. I still enjoy the realism of their personalities though (especially with the other ML having slept with Fang and how that’s resurfacing now).

Yess exactly for the last point, it makes you wonder if the show isn’t just using the excuse of criticising such tropes only to use them for themselves and profit off of this (killing two birds with one stone or smth, by adhering to the fans who demand more aware yet also those who crave sex). But we shall see later on if they become clearer about the presence of such scenes, especially with the later stories, so I’m looking forward to that.
I think the series in itself is enjoyable otherwise because it does seem to try to convey some sense of reality which could end up being quite scandalous (particularly with the story with the two guys who are shipped but where one of them is actually dating the girl who’s always filming their content etc).

I like how you did a breakdown of the different sex scenes that the characters filmed and how some of them do indeed show how it can affect actors negatively (I almost forgot the scene with Pan breaking down). And you named it, even with those details, I feel like they are still too vague and confusing to the extent where most people will still only see the sexual side of those scenes. However, Kinnporsche also had a similar issue where a lot of fans were debating about the SA/possible rape and a lot had assumed that Porsche was just having difficulties accepting his sexuality (which was also a little bit the case) but were denying his trauma. The difference to me was that that series did trace it back properly to that specific event (ex: Porsche having flashbacks to the SA/dubcon and how it was hurting him and how Kinn apologised sincerely about it, not to mention how even the father gave Porsche a week of rest to make a decision, signalling how bad that had affected Porsche). War of Y was a little bit more vague about it in my view, where you could trace back his mental breakdown during the sex scene to the pressure he was putting on himself in general as an actor, which is something that pertains to any famous person (the insecurities of people who associate their self-worth to their fame). Rather than conveying the idea that the abundance of sex scenes are sexualising mlm, which is a separate issue.

thank you for reading my long ass analysis and taking the time to reply ^^

Xue Yang and Xiao Xingchen edit cause i like angst:

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMNWggsQ2/

I wrote this analysis for fun and just wanted to share so here it is :)


As you probably know already, this series is a type of fictional documentation of the BL industry, and how the actors and industry professional are queer baiting their fanbases and profiting off of shipping culture (male actors pretending to be a couple in series that they star together in). There is also a lot of stereotyping within that where the assigned couples are typically presented as one being the “uke” and the other being the “seme”, which is harmful to the queer community. On top of this, there is widespread homophobia wherein the very same people who produce lgbtq series will not hire openly lgbt people out of prejudice, and will only pick “straight”-passing actors. This was depicted in the famous BL called Lovely Writer. War of Y is interesting in the sense that it presents more complex, deconstructed characters who are flawed and morally grey. The protagonist, for instance, is insincere toward others, particularly those whom he can benefit from and cruel to those whom he considers rivals. An extremely selfish but human character that isn’t demonized. Rather, we understand that his behaviour stems from his insecurities and self-consciousness (most importantly, the lack of family support and fear of abandonment), yet the series does not romanticise nor justify his behaviour regardless, as we see how this character ends up hurting those around him. Lovely Writer could have improved in this area (having more complex, developed characters).

Now, for the sexualisation of mlm, which is a thriving issue in BL, is an interesting topic to analyse with this series (up to the recent episode, number 3). Whilst the series does criticise the fact that “ships” are for pretend and there is explicit homophobia that is present in the industry, it is a bit suspect about its presentation of sex. By this, I mean how a lot of BL series have sexual scenes in them and how outsiders often dumb down this representation to fetishisation which is something that this series should aim to call out or avoid perhaps given its message. Yet, whenever the main characters in this series act for their roles, we are shown a sex scene and this can take up a lot of time in the episode, almost even more so (in total) than the footage outside of it (maybe I am exaggerating but it is shown very frequently and it takes up a lot of the run time).

What it risks doing then is reinforcing the idea that gay relationships are only about sex. Why don’t they have the characters act out scenes that are more dialogue-focused? Or highlight a certain facial expression or emotion (I’m thinking of, for example, one of the characters acting out their role in an emotional scene and the other character noticing that his emotions seem real/not an act, then discussing that afterwards)?

Why are they always sexual? Sure, I was impressed, or relieved perhaps, by the love scene where one of the actors was having flashbacks mid-scene to his own life, and moments spent with his co-star, reflecting how his feelings toward his partner are becoming romantic. With that in mind, I could also argue that the scenes that the characters play out are supposed to reflect the development or state of their own relationship with each other in “reality”. In that respect, if it continues in that route, it would be great as it would move away from presenting bl series as only being about sex and hopefully offer a more in-depth look into queer romance. The issue I would have then is that if the relationship between the characters themselves is then established as romantic but that they continue filming sex scenes, then I’d remain sceptical of their decision to do so.


What could reverse that, however, is if the characters themselves point this out in the narrative (something like: “why are all our scenes NC? There is more to gay people than that”). Then again, you could also say that that’s the point even if none of the characters mention it. That the relationship between the characters (that will hopefully evolve into something more emotional) is supposed to clash with the image that they present in their roles in the series.


What gets in the way of this is that the characters seem to enjoy their sex scenes, and therefore the sexualisation of their roles, of the bond in the series they represent. That’s the problem. There needs to be a clear distinction between the “real” lgbtq couple that the main characters reflect and the fetishist, sexualised version that the characters play as actors. It needs to show that harmful effect but it seems to embrace it instead. It’s fine that the main characters themselves started off as sex friends, in fact I am satisfied with that choice in the narrative as it would make sense for co-stars to either not have a relationship or for it to be purely sexual (plus with the other ML mentioning that he also has other sexual partners), which it was. This is more realistic (especially because the characters have to partake in such scenes together). The characters developing feelings for each other later on is therefore more naturally presented in my view. Lovely Writer, for example, for a little bit more of a fantasy, with how the characters loved each other pretty much from the get-go (tho it was reasonable as they were childhood friends, so they knew each other before even entering the industry). In War Of Y, it was touching when the protagonists’ co-star comforted him when he was crying, and that the characters are still rivals who misunderstand one another.


In fact, I thought it was clever that their relationship progressed in the way it did. How it usually goes is that the main leads would dislike one another from the get-go, then would warm up to each other by learning more about them, particularly stuff that draws out pity from the other. So if War Of Y was structured differently, it could have easily been: they’re rivals and hate each other, they learn to trust each other a bit more through their acting, the other lead learns about the protagonists’ family situation (the homophobia and his father’s condition, plus the grooming from the higher ups etc.), the other lead would become more understanding and protective, they’d start to love each other, some random conflict is introduced like another love interest, drama, then they sort things out and they have their happy ending.


This isn’t the case here. The progression of their relationship is interesting. They first started off as sex friends/professional partners. This makes a lot of sense to me despite the protagonists’ insecurities (that leads him to consider everyone as a rival). The reason is that, despite being a colleague in the same industry as him, the protagonist does not perceive his love interest as a threat due to the nature of the BL pairing system. In other words, until now, the protagonist (Pun) most likely considered his colleague as an extension of himself, an “us against the world” perception as the two compete together as a “couple” and are pinned against the others rather than the opposite. Moving on, from being sex friends, and having exposure to each other, the second male lead developed feelings for the lead, and after he comforted Pun when he was most vulnerable (and after witnessing his family situation yet still accepting him), Pan started to have such feelings too. Now romantic feelings are present on both sides, and they have confessed this to each other. However, a romantic relationship hasn’t been officially established. Yet, at this critical moment, Pun learns that his partner just got the position that Pun wanted for himself (and this is not something that the other ML knew about). This is the moment that pulls the trigger for Pun, as he realises, probably for the first time, that his partner is in fact a rival in the end.


We haven’t seen it yet, but based on the preview, Pun will put a distance between them and will start showing his partner the more selfish and cruel side of him (the same side that he would show to those who don’t benefit him or whom he is jealous of). This is where it gets interesting, the information that would have made the 2nd male lead have sympathy for the ML at this stage, which could have turned things around, has already been revealed. This means that the protagonist is going to hurt his love interest and will have to take accountability for himself, without relying on plot devices to save him. He will have to apologise and take responsibility for his actions. He will need to grow, without it being forced out of him with the help of an ML that will crawl back to him after learning about his insecurities. The other ML knows all of this already, all his weak points, and not only that, he has already expressed his awareness of this toward Pun, and has embraced him and told him he loved him regardless. And it’s not like Pun has been denying this either, he understood and embraced this support from his love interest, but is going to discard him regardless.


This is a wonderful chance at showing character growth that doesn’t require the love interest’s assistance or other non-conscious events that make the character do things for him. Pan is on his own now. He needs to think back on himself, cast his inferiority complex aside, learn that his worth isn’t reliant on his professional success as an actor, and understand how his behaviour hurts others and pushes them away from him. He needs to learn for himself and change. Otherwise he will suffer and will be alone in the end, as people won’t stick around someone so insincere and neglectful, except perhaps for the very same type of people who can profit off of him. Pan doesn’t want this, he may think and is willing to sacrifice himself to some extent to achieve his goals, but this is taking a toll on him (as can be seen from his mental breakdown in the bathroom and the scene where he faints). Change is needed. The way War of Y portrays the last half of the story of this couple is pivotal in establishing a difference between a series that tries to be “woke” yet falls back on the very same cliches it tries to criticise and a series that effectively reflects the issues within the BL industry uniquely as intended.

I am still somewhat skeptical of how many sexual scenes it uses, especially in the manner in which it's presented but I can see that there is also more depth in this. I'm just contemplating how they will portray the other couples' stories in the series because i would find it unrealistic if all of the characters playing actors were to be in relationships. The reason is that it would defeat the point of the series. The series intends to show some aspect of reality about the BL industry and supposed to particularly critisice how the industry uses their actors to pretend to be a couple, pretend to be gay or lgbtq. That's one of the many issues, so if all of the characters end up being in relationships, it almost makes it seem like the industry is not wrong in doing this because in the end these "fake" couples are indeed "real". And this is just not the case in real life.

But yeah, to anyone who read this far, thank you so much! What are your thoughts?

Yes it’s really so needed, in fact the whole show pretty much is a metaphor for being queer in our society (the authorities rejecting anyone who does not conform, those who don’t conform protesting to be accepted for their identities)

They are haha i meant the characters in the story, some of them struggle with their identity, not sure if you were replying to me or someone else <3

Oh nooo djfkfjke T^T ik what you mean, the names do sound similar haha

Khanlong's internalised homophobia/struggle with his identity:

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMNnEx2Mo/

Such an intruiging character

Hihi seems like it, it’s nice ^^

That’s totally fair for cutie pie, it just wasn’t my cup of tea for me and it had the kind of flaws that bothered me more (like the romanticised power dynamic and manipulation which was just seen as innocent possessiveness or jealousy, but we all nitpick at different types of flaws in shows so ik that maybe this didn’t bother you for ex). What I did like tho was that at the end that protagonist did revert back to his authentic self so that was a relief and a good decision (because he didn’t really show that side of himself for a long time)

Yesss kinnporsche is top tier, i genuinely became so much more critical about new shows now that i have finished (and I was already getting more critical after Not Me and Kamisama No Ekohiiki)

Imao that’s hilarious, it’s a shame for the actors too. I feel like the production companies think they need to make something dramatic or a complicated plot but really, if they’re not amazing at these things they should stick to simpler plots and try to make it charming in a non-confusing, or misleading way. Like with Bad Buddy, it had a typical BL plot but it knew that and used it to its own advantage and that’s why it’s great