Lady_Kexing

No, I read exactly what you said. That’s the issue.

You repeatedly said that normalizing/forgiving toxic BL characters “plays a part” in homophobia developing, and THAT is the part I fundamentally disagree with. I’ve been consistent about that from the beginning.
I never even argued about the character itself, though.

But for some reasons, the conversation kept getting redirected into things I wasn’t even talking about, while you threw in comments about me “playing dumb” or not being able to read, which honestly just came off unnecessarily condescending.

So no, I didn’t misunderstand your argument. I just disagreed with it, and I don’t think twisting my point into something else to make me sound stupid was fair.

Anyway, I’m done with this conversation now. Take care.

Oh please 😭 the way you’re suddenly pretending that “fujoshi who gets opinions from the internet” was some neutral intellectual statement is actually laughable.

You were talking to a woman and the SECOND your point got challenged, out came the condescending fandom stereotype to belittle the person you were arguing with. That was absolutely intentional, so don’t play dumb now.

Also let’s stop pretending your argument was “just criticizing the character” when you literally said dark BL contributes to homophobia existing. THAT is the part people are disagreeing with because it’s a ridiculous take.

I know that I should stop but I cannot accept that they are here insulting us just because we UNDERSTAND how a dark series works.

Probably when Lu Feng kindnaps Yi Chen is gonna be impossible to comment the episode without being attacked by the morality police 🙄🙄🙄🙄

1. First of all, the “fujoshi who forms her opinions on Instagram” line you can shove right back where it came from. Those misogynistic little digs are pathetic, embarrassing and incredibly telling.

2. The funniest part is that you spent this entire discussion trying to sound intellectually superior, only to completely fall apart and start throwing personal insults the second people disagreed with your ridiculous take. So much for being “above fandom culture,” I guess.

You preach about homophobia while casually talking down to women the moment they don’t validate you. Pick a struggle.

3. Anyway, from this point on you can keep debating with yourself because the moment someone starts using personal attacks to feel morally superior instead of defending their argument like an adult, the discussion becomes worthless to me.

But do you realize how unfair that logic is toward queer media specifically?

Straight media has portrayed abusive husbands, obsessive boyfriends, rape, manipulation, violence and toxic relationships for literal centuries, and nobody goes around saying “this is why heterosexuality is hated.” People understand those are flawed individuals, not representatives of every straight person alive.

Yet the second a queer story is dark, suddenly it has to carry the burden of representing an entire community “correctly” or it’s accused of fueling homophobia. That standard alone is rooted in prejudice.

And respectfully, homophobia was not born because fictional toxic gay men existed. Homophobes don’t need dark fiction to justify their beliefs — they will weaponize literally anything. Holding queer stories to impossible moral purity standards won’t change that.

A dark character in a dark story is not a political statement about same-sex love as a whole. It’s just… a dark character in a dark story.

The way some of you enter DARK series expecting morality lessons needs to be studied honestly. Most people informed themselves before watching and knew EXACTLY what kind of story this was. Nobody pressed play thinking they were getting a healthy relationship PSA.

And who exactly told you everyone likes Lu Feng? Some people do, some don’t. Some feel the need to criticize every action, others simply engage with the story for what it is. That’s how fiction works. What’s weird is this constant moral grandstanding over fictional content as if people discussing a toxic character without writing a disclaimer every 5 seconds means they support abuse in real life.

This is a dark series. Morality was never the point. The point is the characters, the obsession, the damage, the dynamics, the tragedy. People are talking about the narrative, not applying to become Lu Feng’s defense attorneys.

Also after everybody criticizes him… what exactly happens? Does Lu Feng magically stop being abusive? Does the plot rewrite itself? Or do you just want people to publicly condemn him so you can feel morally superior to strangers over fictional media?

You not liking the character is fine. Acting alarmed because other people can separate fiction from reality is another thing entirely.

nope, what is it?

He’s a liar who lies and I absolutely agree with you. He’s on my black list since he asked to Yi Chen if he was “cured” after the break up.

After To My Shore I literally promised myself I would stop arguing with the morality police in comment sections 😭 but then I came here and saw people throwing around genuinely heavy accusations and I just couldn’t stay quiet.

I just want to be able to watch an interesting story without constantly having to explain every 2 minutes how dark fiction works and how enjoying/exploring a toxic narrative does not suddenly reflect someone’s real-life morals.

And honestly I completely agree with you that people who are not used to this genre probably just shouldn’t consume it instead of forcing themselves through it and then attacking everyone else enjoying it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with preferring softer or healthier stories, but not every narrative is trying to be that.

MDL discussions are supposed to be about discussing the actual series, the characters and the writing, yet every time a darker story appears the entire conversation turns into defending yourself from ridiculous and offensive accusations that have barely anything to do with the show itself 🙄

Also same, I’ve seen enough green shows and now I just want to explore the darkest part of the human mind. I don’t ask much 😭😭😭

THANK YOU 😭 finally someone with actual media literacy in these comments!!

Like… why are people watching a DARK toxic romance and then getting angry that it’s dark and toxic 😭 especially after the trailers/source material already made the tone extremely obvious from the start.

And exactly!!! Explaining why these dynamics exist or enjoying the story does NOT mean anyone condones abuse in real life. I’m so tired of the constant moral policing every single time a darker BL gets adapted.
Also the comparison to thrillers/serial killer media is so real because nobody accuses horror fans of secretly supporting murder, yet dark romance fans constantly have to defend themselves for understanding fiction 😭

Do you actually understand what homophobia is and where it comes from? Homophobia does not exist because queer fiction explores toxic dynamics. Homophobia existed long before BL, danmei or dark romance and has historically been rooted in prejudice, dehumanization, religious and social stigma, and the idea that queer people are inherently immoral or “abnormal.”

So saying that problematic queer fiction is “a reason for homophobia” is a really dangerous argument because it indirectly shifts responsibility onto queer media and queer audiences instead of onto the homophobes themselves. It basically turns into: “well, people become homophobic because queer stories are too toxic,” which is the exact kind of rhetoric homophobes have used for decades to demonize queer people and queer relationships.

Toxic and abusive dynamics exist in fiction across every genre and every sexuality. Yet somehow queer stories are constantly expected to morally represent an entire community in a way straight fiction almost never is.

You can criticize the scene. You can hate the direction of the story. You can think Lu Feng is unforgivable. But implying that dark queer fiction itself fuels homophobia just because you personally dislike this narrative direction is not it.

I do agree that people are completely allowed to criticize certain scenes or feel uncomfortable with them. My point was never “you can’t react negatively to this because it’s dark romance.”

What I was trying to say is that explaining why those scenes exist or why they are written that way is not the same as justifying them. A lot of these stories are intentionally built to be disturbing, emotionally intense, toxic or morally uncomfortable. The discomfort is often part of the point.

So when people say “this is dark romance,” they are not necessarily saying “there is nothing wrong with this scene” they are explaining that these dynamics are being intentionally explored as part of the genre itself, not accidentally inserted into an otherwise healthy romance.

That doesn’t mean viewers have to like it, excuse it or stop criticizing it. It just means the presence of disturbing dynamics is usually deliberate, not contradictory to what the story is trying to be.

You are trying way too hard to turn rape into a “well technically” debate and it’s honestly disturbing.

The entire argument of “he didn’t resist enough, therefore he was somewhat willing” is exactly the kind of rhetoric that has been used for years to invalidate victims — especially male victims and victims assaulted by partners or people they trusted.
A huge amount of assault happens within relationships, between people who love each other, are attracted to each other, or have emotional history together. That does not magically make coercion, intimidation, pressure or lack of consent disappear.

People freeze. People panic. People comply out of fear, shock, confusion, emotional pressure or survival instinct. None of that equals consent.

What becomes genuinely harmful is when people get so defensive over a character that they start repeating real-life victim-blaming rhetoric like “he didn’t resist enough,” “he must have wanted it a little,” or “men can’t really be raped.” At that point the discussion is no longer about fiction. it is about spreading dangerous misinformation that has been used against real survivors for years.

Depiction is not endorsement. But refusing to recognize assault because you like the character committing it is not media literacy either.

This is actually an incredibly dangerous and harmful thing to say.

Male rape is absolutely real, and the idea that a man “must have wanted it to some extent” because of anatomy or physical strength is not only false, it’s one of the exact myths that has been used for years to dismiss male victims of SA.

People can be overpowered, coerced, threatened, frozen in fear, manipulated, intoxicated, traumatized or unable to physically resist regardless of gender. Consent is not determined by whether someone “managed to fight back enough.” Consent is determined by whether someone freely wanted and agreed to it.

And saying “it’s hard to rape a man so he was probably willing” is genuinely disturbing logic. That’s victim blaming, plain and simple.

You can discuss dark fiction without spreading harmful misinformation about real-life sexual assault.

First of all please point out where exactly I said rape or SA is okay. Quickly.
Because all I did was explain what dark romance as a genre commonly contains. Dark romance is literally built around toxic, obsessive, morally unhealthy and taboo dynamics. Non/dub-con, manipulation, violence, power imbalance and psychological messiness are extremely common themes in it, whether people like it or not.

That is quite literally the point of dark romance.

The genre exists to explore extreme emotions, dangerous dynamics and darker aspects of human psychology IN FICTION.

And this is the part some of you seriously need to understand: exploring something in fiction does NOT equal supporting it in real life. Depiction does NOT equal endorsement. Those are two completely different things.

By that logic, anyone who enjoys horror supports murder, anyone who watches psychological thrillers supports kidnapping, and anyone who writes villains secretly agrees with abuse and manipulation. That argument falls apart instantly because people are capable of separating fiction from morality.

What’s actually concerning is how comfortable some of you are with implying that people who read or write dark romance automatically support rape or abuse. That’s an insane accusation to make just because someone understands the genre and its tropes.
Depiction does not equal endorsement, no matter how badly some of you want to blur the two.

I don’t think anyone is trying to justify Lu Feng’s actions. it’s clear as day what he has done.
The thing people are trying to make a point about is that this is a very dark story and it will get worse.
Dark romance is a genre (a vastly liked one) and it has a common pattern. usually is non/dub con and other things.
It’s really not the same as omegaverse. Dark romance was created to be this cruel and dark.

Every time a black flag shows up I compare him to Mo Ran (which I love with my whole heart and he’s my favorite character of all times) and for now no one was as toxic as him during his Taxian Jun era 😂😂

That’s not remotely true. Lu Feng wasn’t a monster in the past. They were just in love.
Yi Chen junior was being homophobic just like their parents. And he’s still lying about hiding the messages btw.
Lu Feng is a toxic person. And NOW he’s in the wrong. But his current actions has nothing to do with Yi Chen junior being a liar who asked his brother if he could be “cured” from being gay.
That’s a very different thing.

Yi Chen junior is a little shit and NOTHING will ever make me like him.
If Lu Feng get his revenge on him I will not be sorry for him. Not even in the slightest

FR!!! As if he hadn’t been beaten with a bat by his own father and shipped off to America 🙄🙄 He’s definitely toxic and absolutely going to lose his mind, but that doesn’t mean he should be blamed for things that aren’t his fault to begin with.