Shui Ze Mu Lan

When the trailer came out, I had really high expectations for this drama. But after watching it, I was so disappointed. Instead of focusing on how the police caught the criminals, the drama spent most of the time showing the killer's life, even trying to make them seem pitiful and giving excuses for why they killed people. They also use one of the killer's names as the victim's father's name. Since this is based on a real case, it's really disrespectful to the victims.

On top of that, the way they marketed the cast, calling them "F4 meat processing factory" and picturing Esther Wang holding the spatula that was used to abuse victims- was just so disgusting.

This is probably the first drama I've seen that glorifies the killer so much. I’m definitely avoiding anything from this director and screenwriter in the future.

So, no He family and no Xu Zhiheng ? Did they completely change her storyline? skip the rebirth story is understandable, but no previous marriage too? really hope the drama doesn’t end up being a disappointment since this is one of my fav novels T_T.

Actually among the hottest CPs of the year, one of the pairs really became a real couple. I’m just not sure which one lol

Up to episode 18, the story is quite interesting, even though the comedy feels a bit forced. What bothers me the most, though, is that, like many others, I find the romance and pairing between XQA and the princess completely unnecessary. Since her character doesn’t seem likely to contribute much to the story in the remaining 20 eps, forcing a CP for such a shallow romance plot feels pointless. And after decades of watching C-dramas, characters like hers just aren’t enjoyable anymore. It gets boring, and I end up skipping her scenes because I just feel they don’t bring anything interesting to the plot.

If the overall plot doesn’t grab your interest, or if the cast or cinematography doesn’t appeal to you, it’s probably best to drop it, as those elements are unlikely to change in the later episode.
I’ve dropped many hyped dramas for similar reasons, either the story didn’t engage me, or the acting of the main leads was frustrating, like in SOKP, TTEOTM, TSOPG, and FOF.
For me, though, I really enjoyed the first episode of Blossom, and the plot has kept me hooked ever since.

Thanks for the suggestion! I just added with some extra common information too

Thanks for the correction! I have added it into the discussion with some extra information.

Read with CAUTION. Contains SPOILER!

Let me briefly explain the social structure and basic moral values of ancient Chinese dynasties. This will help provide context for the events happening in this drama.

1. Social Structure / Caste System:
The hierarchy generally looked like this:

Royal Family/Imperial Family > Aristocratic/Noble Families (Duke, Marquess, Earl, etc.) > Scholars and Officials (Zhuang Yuan, Jinshi, Juren, etc.) > Commoners/Working Class (farmers, artisans/tradesmen, merchants) > Slaves > Marginalized/Outcasts (entertainers, courtesans, pariahs).

Note: Sometimes, entertainers and courtesans could be considered above slaves. But generally, they're pretty much in the lowest class of the social structure.
I have no deep knowledge about this, so feel free to correct me.

2. Children rank in the family.
There are Firstborn, Secondborn, Thirdborn, etc. Also, Legitimate born and Concubine born.

Legitimate Firstborn Son (Di Zhangzi): Let's rank it 1 for easier understanding.
This son held the most prestigious position in the family. He was expected to carry on the family name (including title) and inherit the family property.

If the father loves him so much or if the mother comes from a prestigious family, the firstborn usually will be named heir not long after he is born. This status is typically confirmed unless the child dies, is incompetent, or is ill.

And when his father dies, he automatically becomes the patriarch of the family (which means that all family members need to listen to his word).

Legitimate Secondborn, we rank it 2
He has no privileges the same as the firstborn. He can only inherit the title of heir if his brother is incompetent, convicted of a crime, or ill (like the case of Gu Ting Ye in The Story of Minglan, he inherits the Marquis title because of his brother's condition).

However, he also can achieve the title of Duke or Marquess or other title on his own merits and with the support of his brother.

Legitimate Thirdborn, etc
Basically, they have a lower status compared to first and second-borns.

Concubine's born son (Shu zi)
A son born by a concubine only has a chance to inherit the title if no legitimate sons are capable of inheriting it.

Bastard son (Shishengzi)
A child born out of wedlock has very low status and is usually excluded from the family tree, inheritance, and rights.

Firstborn daughter (Di zhang nu)
If she is biologically born by the legitimate wife and if the family/clan is powerful enough, she usually will be selected as empress or crown princess.
If not, then she could be the Wang Fei (princess consort) of some Prince.
Other than that, she normally married into a noble family as a WIFE (not concubine). Unless she's from a lower-ranking family (sometimes, in order to climb the ladder, the family will marry her into some noble family as their concubine).

However, if the mother is dead or the parents hate her, this is a different thing.

Legitimate second, third, fourth etc born daughter
They practically have the same rights or are slightly lower than firstborns in terms of authority and status.

Concubine born daughter
Like the son, her status is much lower compared to the legitimate daughter. And usually have no chance to marry into a royal or powerful/noble family as WIFE (Zheng qi). At most, she can be the concubine (Qie) of the emperor or some prince (not wang fei, aka princess consort, or che fei, aka side consort).

However, if her family is reputable and she has a good attitude, virtuous, etc, she might be able to marry as a WIFE to some noble family too (like Ming Lan in The Story of Ming Lan) or if specifically requested by the previous wife (like Luo Shi Yi Niang in The Sword and Brocade).
Again, it all depends on the circumstances.

But typically, they would become the wife of a lower-ranking official or scholar or a concubine in a noble family.

So, after learning about the structures, let's now compare Song Mo and Song Han.
Song Mo -> Firstborn of Duke Ying and Jiang family legitimate daughter. His rank is 1.
Song Han (previously) -> Secondborn of Duke Ying and Jiang family legitimate daughter. His rank is 2

If something happened to Song Mo, he would be second in line for the succession unless Song Mo has a son.

After the birth secret was revealed:
Song Han -> A bastard child of Duke Ying and Li Yao Niang, a former courtesan/entertainer and the daughter of a criminal. His rank -999

His biological mother holds an extremely low status in the social hierarchy, and being born out of wedlock even lowers his status. To learn more about pariah, courtesan, entertainer you can also check A Dream of Splendor.

As a result, he has no chance of inheriting the title or family property. He is also very unlikely to marry a daughter from a noble family. Even a concubine's daughter would refuse to be his wife.
His existence is basically just a laughing stock.
Even if he one day accumulated merits on his own, his "lowly" background would always hinder him.

But was his situation always this doom? Not entirely. If his father had been powerful enough, had merits, or was an upright person, he could have redeemed his mother and married her as a concubine (though he would still face criticism from all sides). But at least it's pretty doable. In that case, Song Han could be registered in the family tree as a concubine's son.
As far as he could go, he might also be recognized as a legitimate son under Mrs. Jiang (if he is able to negotiate with Mrs. Jiang).

So, if you think his hostility toward Song Mo or how he eventually became evil doesn’t make sense, just consider his status.
3. Why do people fight so hard over a mere title?
Take another look at the social structure. The more noble you are, the more respect you receive and the easier your life becomes. Basically, status and title are very important. The same goes for officials - the higher your rank, the more power you hold, and the more respect you earn from others.

4. In ancient times, marriages were arranged by the family (typically the father, mother, or family patriarch), unless the individual was granted the privilege to arrange their own marriage by the Emperor or Empress.

5. Filial piety is extremely important due to the influence of Confucian teachings, especially to parents.
So why does DZ have to stop SM from killing his father? Because committing patricide (Shi fu) is a grave sin, an unforgivable sin. There's no way this act could ever be justified, no matter what his father did. If his father committed crimes, the proper course of action would be to expose it and bring it to the Emperor, but never to kill him.

Once again, killing a parent violates the rules of filial piety and is basically a death sentence. Even if SM could escape execution, his life would be ruined. The same applies to killing a family member - while not as severe as killing a parent, it would violate the same rules and will be condemned by people.

6. Without the lawful approval of the emperor and the acknowledgment of the ministers, no noble family is allowed to raise their own army. If this were to become known to the public, it would be considered Qi Jun Zhi Zui or a crime of deceiving the emperor and attempting rebellion. Death sentence. Therefore, the existence of the Ding army could never be known by the public.

7. Why did SM have to kill the entire household to protect the baby?
Because the baby was the heir to Duke Ding, whose criminal acts were publicly known at the time. If news of SM keeping the baby were to leak, he would be accused of the same crime as Duke Ding, as well as the crime of deceiving the emperor. This would result in the same death sentence, not only for SM but also for all his followers. The Song family would likely face exile, if not execution.

8. Why does the emperor not want to marry the princess to SH, and why does the princess reject him in such a manner?
Again, because of his background. By requesting the marriage, SH is already slapping the royal family in the face. And the way the princess rejects him isn't just because she doesn't want to marry him but because she wants to humiliate him publicly in the most degrading way possible.

If this were the previous SH, the legitimate second son of Duke Ying, the emperor might have agreed to the marriage, or the princess wouldn't have rejected him in the same way.
In ancient times, the etiquette towards noble families, commoners, and those of lower rank were very different.

I hope this information helps you better enjoy the drama.

Note: Of course, this drama doesn't stick strictly to historical accuracy. For more accurate information about the Ming dynasty, it’s recommended to refer to reputable historical sources.

Dude, I’m the one wasting my time talking to you because you don’t even understand the basic etiquette, morals, and social structure of that era. Please, we’re discussing a drama set in the Ming dynasty, not some random time period.

So NOPE, again, I tell you NOPE, there’s no way his act of killing his biological father would be justified. No matter what crimes his father committed or what evidence he had, there’s no way SHI FU or PATRICIDE would be justified in that era - really in any era that values Confucianism (just like what happened to Ling Bu Yi in LLTG).

My advice to you is, before watching a historical drama, especially one set in a specific dynasty, it’s better to learn about the basic etiquette, morals, and social structure of that era. Otherwise, you’ll just think nothing makes sense.

The issues you’re raising have never been a problem for Chinese audiences because they already understand the reasoning behind it.

Since you don’t want to understand, there’s no point in me explaining further. Bye

Dude, what I’m saying is, we don’t really need to focus on the reason behind the emperor’s actions. The empress has her own legitimate motive for starting the rebellion. I just want to point out that her reason isn’t dumb - she has a valid justification, and it makes sense.

Unless her motive was just because the emperor took a new concubine, then I’d call it a dumb reason. But fighting for her own life is never a dumb reason, no matter what she’s done or why the emperor acted the way he did. It’s a basic human instinct to want to survive.

What I mean is IF, it were SM - an heir of Duke Ying.
Basically, it's the same as any other noble-born person. You have to understand that the etiquette towards a noble-born and not a noble-born is very different, and that’s why the princess rejected him in such a way.
Yes, she could reject him because she didn’t like him, but if he were the legitimate son of a Duke’s family, she wouldn’t dare to treat him that way. I hope you understand the difference.

If he were the legitimate son of a noble family, she could have rejected him in a very polite manner, or perhaps she wouldn't have been able to reject him, as the Emperor would have automatically approved the proposal.

But since he’s a bastard, what princess did basically telling everyone that "Hey, I’m a noble princess, and your request for marriage is so shameful to me. You’re a bastard - how dare you ask me to marry you? I would never marry you."

Yes, he could get a title if he worked for Prince Qing and if they were winning the rebellion. Otherwise, someone like him would never lawfully receive a title. Titles like Duke or Marquis aren’t easily granted. Besides merit, a clean background is required. A commoner might be able to achieve this, but SH, who had a criminal father, and his mother is the daughter of a criminal. Sadly, his background is extremely humiliating.

To understand this, you need to consider how social status worked in that era. Otherwise, my explanation won’t make sense to you.

What I can say is that someone who once had everything now loses it all in the blink of an eye and is reduced to the lowest status possible. Given all this, he could have been a saint if he didn’t want his brother dead. Throughout history, title disputes between brothers (usually born of different mothers) have been common, so what SH did not very difficult to understand.

He couldn’t remove him from the family tree or revoke his heir title without the Emperor’s approval. When a duke or marquis or earl wants to name an heir, they must submit a proposal to the Emperor first. The same applies to removal - without the Emperor’s consent, he wouldn’t have been able to do it.

If SM were alive, given his connection to the Emperor (due to his closeness with Duke Ding), the Emperor would side with SM. He would order an investigation into whether the crimes SYC accused him of were true, and SYC’s lies would be easily exposed. There’s no need to discuss what would happen to him after that.

So, killing SM (without anyone knowing) was the most practical solution.

As for why he couldn’t kill his son when he was younger, consider Mrs. Jiang’s family and also Duke Ding, who is like a brother to the Emperor. How could he kill his firstborn son, who was probably already registered as the heir the moment he was born?

Think about the uproar the Jiang family and Duke Ding would cause in front of the Emperor if the heir were to die. An investigation would easily expose SYC. So, he had to wait patiently until Duke Ding was eliminated and Mrs. Jiang was gone.

He could do that to his daughter, though, because at the time, his beloved had just given birth, and he had someone to swap with. But when SM was born, there was no other baby to replace him. You can also see how cruel he was toward his daughter.

He already told SM about what his uncle did. His uncle’s actions prevented him from marrying his beloved, as the Li family was convicted of a crime, and his beloved was sent to become a courtesan (you can look up what a courtesan is, but basically, she could never be free and her status was lower than that of a commoner).

- She couldn’t change her mother’s fate because she had no power over her mother’s actions. Her mother’s arc had already begun before she reborn, as her father had already gotten WYX pregnant, and her mother’s heart had already died by what her father's action. No matter what DZ did, her mother’s life was in her own hands, and she chose to take her own life.

- She couldn’t have predicted that SM would end up in prison, as he likely wasn’t in that situation in the previous life. She acted based on the events happening at the time. She also couldn’t predict the emperor’s intentions, so she had to assess the situation before taking action.

- No, there’s no way SM could be justified for killing his biological father. In the Ming Dynasty, filial piety toward one’s parents was very important. Nothing could justify someone committing patricide. The emperor, under the law, couldn’t save him either. So, SM would have to walk the same path as in his previous life, joining the rebellion.
Please look https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Abominations for more details.

- If SM had joined forces with Prince Qing, the Crown Prince’s fate would likely have been the same as in his previous life. YT and King’s schemes wouldn’t have succeeded with SM on their side.

Yes, she might have just purely wanted to help the emperor, but from her point of view, she was betrayed by him. I don’t think she needed to care about anything else when she heard her husband’s plan to kill her (and possibly her son). Her survival instinct kicked in, and she fought back - this is normal for any human.

From the emperor’s pov, what he did was wise. He issued the decree to have her buried, acting as an emperor, and we can understand that he had his reasons. He wanted protect his nation and the next king.

From the empress’s pov, she didn’t want to be buried alive with the emperor. Like, we can see she genuinely cared for him, bringing him soup, but then she heard the death decree. After that, she planned her revenge, and we can understand why she did it from her perspective. So why would this be seen as a dumb reason?

Their motives are reasonable enough when viewed from their own perspectives.

Nope, if it were SM, she wouldn’t have rejected him like that. She rejected him in such a humiliating way because of his "lowly" background.

And he could never be granted the title of King unless he made an incredibly significant impact that would convince the Emperor that without SH, the world would fall into chaos.

You have to understand that no matter his achievements or how skilled he is in martial arts, his background will always be a hinder for him. If he had been a commoner, it would be a different story because the gap wouldn’t be as big.
But going from being the legitimate son of Duke Ying and Mrs. Jiang (who came from a noble family) to being the son born out of wedlock to a criminal’s daughter and an ex-courtesan - that’s the most humiliating thing a man could face in that era. People could easily call him a bastard, and no one would care.

4. About "Almost all of the reasonings behind villains killing were extremely dumb, like unrealistically dumb," I'm not sure which one you refer to.

The main villains here are the Empress and Prince Qing. If you haven’t finished watching, this might be a spoiler.

The Empress’s motive for rebellion makes sense. She didn’t want to be buried alive with the Emperor or see her only child die. Her only option was to plan a rebellion, and eliminating Duke Ding was a necessary move because he was the Emperor’s most loyal supporter. With the Ding Army under his command, he posed the biggest threat to the rebellion’s success. Removing him was crucial for her plan.

5. Regarding DZ not utilizing her knowledge: most of what she knew was based on general events that were public knowledge. So if you refer to political things, she doesn't have that knowledge other than those written in her magic book.
And also when she tried to change certain events, the butterfly effect caused other events to changed as well. When she make a move, other make a move to (and she couldn't able to predict that because the move she made is different from her past life).
But then, the biggest changes she made using her knowledge are: saving the Jiang family and Ding Army from extermination, preventing SM from being labeled a patricide and condemned by the world which also exposing SYC’s crimes, preventing the death of the Crown Prince and the resulting national chaos, and most importantly, saving herself.
She ended up accomplishing far more than she initially planned. In this life, her goal was simply to live a better life, not necessarily to seek revenge.

2. Regarding DM and WTY’s story being short, I think it’s fine as is. With only 34 eps in total, they had to keep things efficient and extending their story would mean stretching other plots as well, so it's a good idea to wrap up DM and WTY’s arc at that point since there wasn’t any major plot left to keep their story engaging for the audience.

3. As for SYC wanting to kill his son, it might seem unrealistic, but people like that do exist in real life tho. self-centered individuals who care only about their own interests.
SYC’s hatred for the Jiang family made SM’s existence an eye-sore to him. For him, SM is more like a constant reminder of his hatred and also his biggest threat instead of his flesh and blood. Moreover, as a father, he naturally have no the so-called maternal instinct that prevent him to doing so.
He wanted to eliminate SM and make SH his heir instead, not only because SH was born by his beloved but also because SH is easier to control (you can tell that he's selfish and only care about his own benefits).
Killing their own kins also existed in historical, like Wu Zetian who accused of killing his own son to secure her power. So, a person who is worse than an animal has always existed. It's just not commonly portrayed in dramas.

I agree that some parts of the plot might not have been executed perfectly, but I’ll try to explain a bit.

1. SH’s reasoning for turning against his brother makes sense. A bit rushed indeed but it will take to much time if the writers elaborate more.
Let’s establish some context first. In that era, there was a significant difference between the firstborn and the second-born children, and an even bigger gap between a legitimate child and a shu zi (a concubine’s son).
SM, being the legitimate son of the Duke Ying household, was born with the right to inherit the title of heir, meaning he would eventually become Duke Ying after their father’s death. On the other hand, SH, as the second-born, had no such privilege unless his brother died, was convicted of a crime, or become incompetent.

From a young age, SH was brainwashed by his father to surpass his brother so that he could have the chance to fight for the title. However, everything changed when SH discovered that he wasn’t a legitimate child. To make it even worse, he learned he was the son of a criminal’s daughter - convicted of corruption - who was an ex-courtesan (a status even lower than that of a commoner).
This revelation was deeply humiliating for SH. His background could no longer compare to his brother’s, and regardless of what happened to SM, the title of heir would never be his.

In that era, background and lineage were crucial. With his "lowly" status, a commoner is even better than him. He can no longer marry a noble girl (I think not even a concubine's daughter). Basically, in a blink of an eye, he turns into the capital's laughingstock. That's also why the princess rejected him so humiliatingly.

SH believed his situation became like this it was because of his father, his biological mother, and also his brother. He felt that if his brother had been more benevolent and covered up the family's disgrace instead of exposing their father’s crimes, SH’s background could have remained a secret, and he would still be recognized as the second young master of Duke Ying.

The accumulation of his father’s brainwashing, his own insecurities, the knowledge of his birth secret, and the inheritance of his father's pathetic gene leads him to reveal his darker side.

So the moment this event was exposed, we could already tell that he's gonna turn bad now. There's no other reason needed for him to turn against his brother.
In fact, the writers had already dropped hints earlier, like his pride in being loved by his father while his brother was hated and his silence when his father told him to stay out of the bandit arc, etc.

Yeah. I posted my review a few days ago

Nope, I don’t think she got poisoned. DM said to WTY that she should have listened to her mother to put poison in her medicine, which means she didn’t actually do it.