CoNeTrIC

Yeah, I can hardly wait for the Irozuku subs.

I have only a limited understanding of the indirectness of Japanese, but your explanation is familiar and makes perfect sense.

But how did Kurosawa know that Adachi wanted him to stop the conversation, skip past "telling"/"teaching", and immediately start doing/kissing? Was it that obvious just from context or what Adachi said?

Is sexual practice/instruction something no one in that situation would expect to discuss pointedly? This might be a tangent, but are Japanese parents expected to give the talk about "the birds and the bees"? Sorry, if these seem like stupid questions.

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During dinner at the end of episode 11, there wasn't much conversation at first because they were both thinking to themselves. Out of the blue, Adachi said, kinda begrudgingly, "What do you want for the reward?" Kurosawa was bewildered, of course. At that moment, Adachi had just decided to rid himself of magic. Then, Adachi said, "I don't really know ... that. Can you tell me how?" Kurosawa knew immediately what Adachi wanted and got very serious. Then, Kurosawa said "I see" and swung into action while Adachi steeled himself.

I'm just amazed by the way they communicated. So minimal, subtle, and seemingly vague. Yet there was no uncertainty or confusion about what Adachi meant. It was out loud but worked like telepathy.

- Was the translation I saw missing something?
- Does Kurosawa have an empathy superpower? :-D
- Is there something about the Japanese language or culture making this possible? What is it?

I agree. The show's setup seems to be that Adachi never really needed to think about it. He seems to have had some kind of asexual and/or aromantic orientation.

First, thanks for adding that acknowledgment of the broader context within the show.

We may just be disagreeing here about the show's subtext. Japanese TV is conservative and BL has historically denied gay/bi identity, so gay subtext is typically all anyone might expect to find in a show like this.

Adachi's breakdown in episode 11 had two triggers: (1) Kurosawa thinking about getting his "reward" and (2) Kurosawa believing that Adachi was actually sexually attracted to him. Like previous scenes when thoughts of sex came up, Adachi freaked out (and gave a bunch of different reasons). Both actors portrayed these scenes the same way they would a case of full-blown gay panic. That was intentional, I believe.

For sure, this show is very subtle and understated. But Adachi has been wrestling with his gay/bi sexuality, not just his virginity. I don't not understand the denial about this.

It's true that Adachi is not exactly the same as he was in the beginning. He's more aware of possibilities and his own potential now. That's why his self-sabotage is so hard to watch. (He was being unbelievably unfair to himself in this episode, and that part seemed a little contrived, I think. But let's put that aside.)

What does magic represent in this show? Adachi talks about it as a blessing and a curse. In this episode, he talked a lot about it being a crutch. I'm not convinced he sees real value in it. He wants to be rid of it, and he tried suddenly and unsuccessfully to make that happen.

Fair to say, this is still Adachi's best shot at finding love and happiness. If he can repair the damage he's done and get back to where he was in the previous episode, he'll be alright. People hardly ever manage to do that in real life, and that's why we need shows like this to make us believe it's possible.

How many said they felt their entire experience was ruined? Not many at all. Even fewer will drop the show at this point. Along with the outpouring of emotion, I see lots of positive engagement still, including some good debate and critical analysis.

"back to square one" -- Yep, felt that way to me too :-(

The central question of this show is not whether Adachi has become too reliant on magic. For most of this episode, we saw Adachi beating himself up about that and other things. His guilt and anxiety were not only unproductive, a lot of it was misplaced.

(1) Adachi thought he'd cheated during the product idea presentation, but did he? No, he didn't actually. The reason he gave the committee to explain why he designed the clips probably wasn't in his presentation deck, but it was the real reason. It was not a case of lying or just saying something the planning chief wanted to hear. He DID think about product users' feelings more than anything. Kurosawa told Adachi this when he saw the final product design in the previous episode. Kurosawa said it was very much in line with Adachi's heart and personality. For Adachi to forget all that just seemed rather incredible.

(2) Adachi heard Kurosawa thinking about getting his "reward", so he started to feel pressured again. So much so that he decided to get rid of the magic just so he wouldn't have to worry anymore about Kurosawa's thoughts and desires. Unfortunately, he couldn't get rid of the magic without hearing more of Kurosawa's thoughts. It was true that Adachi wasn't motivated only by desire as Kurosawa believed, so that was a bit of a quandary for him. Adachi hugely overreacted though. Adachi's lines about fearing losing the magic actually contradicted what he was thinking a few minutes earlier.

In one of the early episodes, Tsuge told Adachi to figure out what he wanted from Kurosawa. Adachi soon followed up with a text saying "I don't understand myself." Sadly, we're almost at the end of this story and Adachi is still incapable of understanding his own heart. When Kurosawa put the question to him, he couldn't answer. Ugh. So sad.

I have no idea how this gets resolved. Adachi is a mess and Kurosawa was right to let him go.

I completely understand why Kurosawa asked Adachi to make a decision and then accepted Adachi's non-answer. @einepriseglitzer was correct in saying that Kurosawa did the right thing for both of them. I don't think Kurosawa agreed with Adachi's reasoning. He just realized he couldn't change Adachi's way of thinking. (BTW, Machida did an incredible job conveying Kurosawa's frustration, disappointment, and grace.)

That being said, I may disagree with you about whether Adachi's regression in this episode was convincing or in keeping with the character. To me, this aspect seemed rather heavy-handed and not the best choice the writers could have made. It's not just a matter of preferring or hoping for a happy ending. If the story or the character doesn't ring true for people, then that's usually a problem with the writing.

Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but Kurosawa's reaction looked like what a gay/bi man might do reflexively in a gay panic situation to try to diffuse sudden anger and confusion.

Yes, for something really great, you can deal with moments of difficulty, pain, and disappointment. Have limits though. Don't compromise your health, safety, identity, or sense of self-worth for anyone.

Go for it! And do as I say, not as I do. ;-)

I hope this all will make more sense to me when I watch the episode with subs. Right now, based on what I saw and am reading, it seems like Adachi was overwhelmed with unproductive emotions. Kurosawa doesn't know how to help Adachi, and he may have his own issues getting in the way as well. Not sure these developments make sense for either character. I'm trying to reserve judgment though.

I agree. Thai shows or remakes aren't problematic in general. I just believe this show is fundamentally and uniquely Japanese. It's not just a light or generic love story. The story and characters are culturally embedded.

This show is basically about the distinction and symbiotic relationship between honne and tatemae (inner feelings and public display). I have only a basic understanding, so someone will have to explain it to me if there are good parallels or substitutes for these Japanese concepts in other cultures.

I doubt a Thai BL could do it justice. And Americans would totally ruin it, so I hope that doesn't happen either.

Cool!

BTW, I think I've put my finger on the main internal conflict Kurosawa has been wrestling with. I just came across this quote by Takeo Doi, MD, the noted Japanese expert on the Japanese psyche and Japanese society.

"All ancient teachings have in common the belief that the human heart (kokoro) is secret by its very nature, and that it must be kept secret. In 'The Analects of Confucius', for example, we find this: 'Fine words and insinuating countenance are seldom associated with virtue.' Thus, Confucius agrees that when the heart is employed in cleverness of speech or flattery, the true heart, the real kokoro, is often missing."

This speaks to the existential crisis Kurosawa had after his disastrous attempt to flatter and ingratiate himself with the 'lady president'. Also, it warns us that Kurosawa will react very, very strongly if/when he learns his inner thoughts weren't actually private. Yikes!

(The quote is from a chapter titled 'The Mind and Secrets' in a book titled "The Anatomy of the Self". I was inspired by this show, to get back to reading it. Thanks, Cherry Magic!)

I agree with you. It's a misunderstanding to think Kurosawa wasn't nice before he met Adachi. Kurosawa has always been nice and polite to everyone, for the reasons you've given. Aso, I agree with your rejection of the idea that his character changed suddenly because of an unexpected love encounter. Fortunately, this show is so much better than those tropes.

This thread has helped me appreciate Kurosawa's character development a lot more. We tend to focus only on Adachi's development because Adachi was a loser and Kurosawa was Mr. Perfect. But now we know both were unfulfilled and both have lacked self-assurance. This new relationship is helping them, but it's not the end all be all.

Like you, I want to see more from Kurosawa in the next two episodes. Kurosawa keeps saying he's happy just being by Adachi's side. Really? That's sweet, but female empowerment tells us "You Don’t Need A Man To Be Happy" and "You Have to Love Yourself Before You Can Love Someone Else."

Wow, Adachi really looks like a boyfriend in this one, not just a friend.