Dabosil

Chiseled haha

Let me go back to that real quick and reply. Thanks for the heads up.

Ah, thanks for the info. I did think some parts suddenly had super clean and crystal clear audio, and the FL looses some of the natural raspy? edge when she speaks, so I was wondering. it caught me off guard at certain points (specifically where she talks to Yuan on the swing)

I understand what you said because that's as he explained it, but even if she's smart, I don't think he can still trust her as so far, all he's done is from her help in episode 1, seeing her from afar and hearing her convos about unimportant stuff from corners. I think if so, he could directly go talk to the grandmother (even though he says it isn't acceptable), as she has a personality like CSS and would understand, and she wouldn't reveal the secret because it's so important to that family. As we saw, FL also told her parents (apart from her participation) so it shows that she can't completely hold onto something either (and therefore I'm also perplexed as to why the show showed this scene).
I do understand LBY is pretty generous and that shows. But I still feel that this whole thing, which is basically a trust issue, is a plothole.

Sidenote: DId the grandma know she was not Qiqi, but CSS, because her directions were super telling about the box?

Up to 10-humor is actually on point throughout, which I find refreshing (I generally don't find other CDramas' humor interesting).

However, one thing I don't understand is why LBY would, even if tasking CSS with the steal, reveal top-secret information INCREDIBLY necessary for his plan to CSS? He could make up some other believable bs, and even though he likes her, you never know. I would also assume that at his ranking/position, he would be more careful. Plus, CSS even told her parents after (which I don't understand either). That's the most irritating plothole for me so far.
Edit: For the confusion above, people below have kindly given explanations already, so if you're confused, read their answers

Also, this drama is REALLY slow (I still don't know what the main plot is but thankfully I'm here for FL's growth. But again, her maturity seems leagues away from ML rn, so I wonder how she's going to develop from here).

Another thing is that it's nice to see FL wear red in the last two episodes, because regardless of her background of being treated unwell by her family and so on, the color palette has been on a much more undersaturated side (including the color filter, you can see that in some scenes, the Hengdian faux mahogany colored wood structures behind them, usually bright, is more of a grayish red here). Overall, the costumes were duller (and architecture, including interior, like when the Yuan guy was talking to his mother in front of the door and the outdoor view was so white). I was even shocked when Wan Qiqi wore red in her character intro, it was so red and so grand in comparison (even though it's a common sight in dramas).
I feel like the one very very colorful scene was the festival, but then generally it's dull. But that's the color side of the drama.

In general, the character parts of the story are very interesting; I feel like I know this FL better in these 10 episodes than in other dramas of the same genre in their whole run. I'm just waiting for the Ml's and FL's plotline to intersect more quickly.

Sidenote: There was no dubbing at all in the recent few episodes, right? In some scenes, I felt like the sound quality was a bit different for the FL, but that could just be me.

And if the ML's line is currently relevant to the overall structure, I'm guessing the story is about the rebellion of the neighboring kingdom and how everyone's going to be involved and trying to stop it..?

Edit: Just watched some of the new upcoming trailers, and I have a better idea of the plot and maturity stuff

Ooh, I unexpectedly like this! I like all the family stuff because the character studies for everyone is fun, but in the back of my mind, also: what is the plot? The family stuff is entertainable to not skip and I think we now all have a relationship with the female lead, but I have no idea what the overarching plot is. Still, as a going-in slice of life and character study, pretty good. In the middle few episodes, I even forgot about the fact that the Ml and FL had not met so far. That's also one thing. Apart from 1 and 6, no connecting thread with both. I'd say that the FL with her story also seems a bit young to start a relationship? (We only see scenes of Ml doing work, so it seeks he's significantly older and more mature).
Didn't like the hairdo for the FL when seeing posters at first, but I now I actually quite like it.

Extra: I was screaming for them to remove the cloaks when they were near the fire. THICK fur-lined (really rounded out, lots of lots of fur) cloaks and multilayered clothing near fire-argh, so hot! I was feeling hot.

Summary of feelings after I finished the whole thing:
Best tension episodes were at 3-5 (imo)
I still think Tokyo is a confusing character and Nairobi is pretty good but why does she slap everyone's butt-isn't that the verge of harassment, or even if not, feels icky
Berlin is good, Rio is also cool (especially because his backstory was established), but still need more depth. Oslo and Helsinki are pretty much in the background. I like Denver and Misun a lot, and the Arturo based character (Director, forget his name!) is a sleazeball and pretty one-dimensional, but I hate him, so cool. The professor also is fine, but he's not the center here and doesn't have much gravity or seem as intelligent (or build a lot of tension), still don't get his personality. The police team is (thumbs up).
There are some different changes, but almost all the changes are good in establishing its uniqueness. For something they did well, I think the 'mask switcheroo' scene was more exciting and clear-cut here.
With relationships, I actually like all of the relationship changes except the Professor line. I didn't particularly dislike but also didn't really care for all the sex scenes in the original, but the two here I actually think were properly placed and fit the stuff going on. I would say though Misun is pretty likable here, she's still a flipping third member of a relationship and very consciously taking on a cheating role..so, show me something else girl (same comments to original as well). Poor Director's wife!
I feel like pacing was better as it eased into Part 1 (I also have to say the colour scheme didn't seem so problematic over time), but I didn't feel as muhc of the danger, or fear, still, even though it was there for sure (e.g. tomato car scene, BUT I liked the changes in this scene).

I still think it doesn't have as much tension or heart and I want to see more Korean elements, but I could see some of them that were applied already even in relationships (which is positive), but I really want it to stand out from the original. I also think that here, the characters aren't very memorable (more the plot, which also doesn't have as much explanative story), and I feel that as I watch it it's like the characters are saying this, going through one scene to the next like clockwork? That's the flow of it.

Still, I think if you didn't watch the original (or didn't like specific elements of the original) you would find this show to be very exciting and like the show.
With adaptation, I think it's done 7.0 good job.
I would rate it as a show the same. To improve, I want to seem more to make it unique and for the professor to further establish himself memorably and more distinctly. However, I would say if I didn't watch the original, l'd give it 7.5.
I think the imdb's score is crazy but MDL's is over the top as well (out of 10 in general, not MDL's scaling).
Anyways, it is pretty good, some parts stand out, good watch, didn't find it bad when watching. Also, I am waiting for Part 2 to come out, so overall yeah, just a good watch, chill watch.

Really? I liked Berlin fine, but he actually didn't come across as 'bad' to me. He seemed pretty coordinated and 'for the greater plan', so basically methodical and harsh, but not necessarily bad in terms of his character (so far)

.....???????

I'm a huge fan of the original series and watched all five seasons, so I've been excited for this to come out. I've only watched the first episode so far, so here are my thoughts:

Good Points:

1. The recontextualization of the story background to fit the Korean remake-very interesting.
2. The characters of the Professor and Sun (negotiator), though they do have the most screen time and are most fleshed out.
3. Little changes from the original- e.g masks off from the start for the thieves and the professor owning a cafe instead of being a customer/having built up connection prior to the heist (I think)

Bad Points:
1. The green colour filter that looms in most of the episode (Some scenes have warmer tones towards the end of the episode, which I prefer much more
2. Tokyo's characterization, or rather lack of characterization, considering she's one of the main characters.
3. Other members' personalities-None of the thieves so far have shown likable traits, with some bordering on caricatures.
4. Saturation and CGI-So, so obvious. I like the industrialized/modern look of the Korean remake (including the indoors of houses and the Mint itself), it adds to the uniqueness of the series, but the way they go about it is just, not welcoming visually.
5. Camera Angles- a lot of close-up and fast shots. They take away from what's happening in the background, and I wish I could see more of the overarching things.
6. Relationship Pacing- this is mainly the part where Denver and Rio lie on the cash. While this was in the original, I felt no bond between the members at all (or even signs of relationship, and it just felt so stark to me). The other stuff went fine.
7. Opening Line of the series-Bad Army pun, weird opening. It was a good scene, but maybe not from the start, add some background shots or panning shots at least, or just choose something else. (And I say it's a good scene because there was a subversion of expectations from the free feeling dancing on the staircase to North Korea Town Square looming shot)

Speaking of Point 3, I don't mind a change of personalities from the original, because a different setting itself causes cultural changes. However, they just don't seem to have differentiable personalities other than caricature-like depictions?



However, there's a bonus since I do intend to keep watching.

Edit: I was thinking about it and obviously it's more boring for me as I know the plot and twists (unless they really do a whole 360, but after talking about colour grading, lack of characterization and shots, which are much more visual things, I realized I didn't really get to the heart of it-which is just that it doesn't feel like there's soul. I really want to see connection and have the characters established with different personalities, I really want to see how the Korean background will bring something different.

Also, I did like the professor in the cafe scenes, but in the start, I was just, nah man. Expression, expression, I really need to see, see the people, see the VIBES of the people, and he gave me no vibes in personality, just branched out on his actions.

Also suspense, and fear. Nada. I see people acting scared, yeah, and I see the same scene of Rio going down and all, yeah. But regardless of watching the original, there was no sort of grip where I think something is really coming, whether in display or the explanation parts.

I did really like the added North/South negotiator thing, but I just need the adrenaline for this.

I went off this page for a bit because I couldn't really get back into it after 26, and I am shocked the last eight are apparently now all released in one go. Let's see if I can dive back in, but I hope there's more plot/drama-I personally can only go with slice-of-life vibes for a while. Going to check the ratings tomorrow to see how people judge the overall show.

Agree with what you say here; regardless, thanks for the amazing convo!

Actually a really good summary hahaha

There's been mixed reports between S and S+. Either way, S tier for sure, perhaps they doubled-down on advertising or post-production after investments or something and it went from S to S+, idk.

Your last paragraph-yeah, you try to rate objectively. I don't understand the community thing, does that mean that on MDL everyone tries to rate it as an objective piece of work (which actually, there cannot be, only general consensus), because of giving back to the community, and it's cool if you're doing an audience score on say, Rotten Tomatoes or imdb, then it's chill? I can see how people need to be aware of likes and dislikes and if people are forcing themselves to watch a piece of work they don't like, it's literally more pain for them. Here's the thing- for MDL, we rate, we have an account, this rating reflects our likes and dislikes and people might have the idea to try looking in the most objective lens possible and some people just based on how they feel about it at the moment. The reason why I can't stand completely with your argument because, for example, some people around me will only give a 5-7 range for movies, for example, but that's not to say they disrespect the work, it's very literally how they perceive the movie. MDL's rating range is way inflated over most rating sites; This is due to a lot of people giving 10 to a bunch of things because of how they feel, but does that mean other people should have to adjust their rating to that system? I completely stand against trolls or haters rating works, because as I said, freedom to rate does not mean freedom to abuse, but requiring certain mindsets is not really understandable or agreeable. As for tropes-I think sometimes the line between knowing it's not your cup of tea (like a genre versus certain aspects) is indiscernible anyways, and we always encourage people to go out of their comfort zones, and people who watch something and don't like something can rate it as well-that's how it works universally. I'm not sure what commitment to this community is other than staying true to your ratings and not bullying anyone.

I think this is similar to the idea of only being able to comment on a drama page if you are a fan of the drama; often I see even dramas that I like will have people point out objective points about it that they don't like (and by that I mean general consensus based objective) but are just told 'don't watch it if you don't like it'. I think that's not healthy as this argument always goes many ways, as you can say to someone for example, 'you've only watched this much so you can't have a complete analysis'. Rarely do I hear people talk about how they hate romance and are watching it, but picking at certain scenes, plot points, acting, character profiles etc. How can we develop a nuanced discussion that goes further beyond this sort of groupthink cycle?

I agree with you on the based on idols and whatnot, which I think is pretty prevalent in MDL (and has inflated a lot ratings, obviously). I suppose personally, if you rate with known intention of not being true your idea of the work, then it's not a rating-justified perception.On the other side, I think some people are also unaware if their biases. Either way, I think that in the end, personal scores are more important. We often talk about unfair scoring when we know a crazy mob of fans have inflated it, or if a crazy mob of haters have dunked it.

But in general, another point is that do we have to have clear criteria? it makes me happy to do so because I feel objective and it's just my nature, but if most people, if even rate it, would just rate based on their feelings at the moment. I guess it's arguable that for the MDL site, you need to consider Asian dramas a niche and purposely spend more time on it and care deeply, but I don't understand the need to conform to norms if it is true. The other thing is that there's hardly a way of really knowing what is 'true' to the person, so it's not wholly controllable. Mainly, I feel that the attitude to caring about ratings so much is strange; it takes nothing away from my rating. I see the care if you are a fan of the work or believe there's a justice to the work's scoring, but usually this type of scoring is relatively balanced,

I agree with some of what you say but, for example, I'm not sure this drama is worth a 8.5 for me, and I love this drama (just from progression). Mainly it's what you say with 'being fair at least'. I think you're justifying this in terms of the way MDL's users all generally just rate dramas higher, but really a rating system is just fair in the idea that everyone can vote what they want due to how they feel about the drama. Of course, this doesn't give justification to people who are haters or crazy-ass fans with no compass, but everyone can have their own opinion on a rating. I agree that people rate dramas '10' way too easily, but at the same time if it's just their taste, no one has to be hated on for their subjective likes. No one is told to rate based on certain criteria; we are not critics, just a general audience, and so a rating in that sense is 'fair'.
Even if the drama got a 7, let's say, firstly, yeah, I think it's unfair, but the rating itself is mostly going to be different with how I see it; Whether the rating aligns with the rating in your heart doesn't matter as afterall, we are all just looking through subjective lenses, even if it's our subjective idea of the objective.

Long comment but I hope you get what I mean.

Kind of...I think her 'action side' isn't that great; like how she was going to 'hit' the children or how she's always so active in her reaction? I'm not sure if it's humor because I don't really think that's funny. She has a good heart and is pretty nice to people but I think her communication with Yinzhang is quite lacking and alternative (she also holds in what she has to say to her and then bursts out), but that's a specific basis.

Tbh, as a huge fan of the show, I was so surprised it had the plot it had so far as I definitely thought it would be romance+slice of life(challenges of the three friends).

I mean, it is...
but most of the plot comes from GQF and that has not been very smooth (like idk where the plot with the damaging picture thing went). The plot points with the three friends are more relationship-dynamic like because the ML and FL don't have trust issues (thankfully), so it's either how the tea house business is going (discrimination, finances, being dragged into events because of stuff happening) or the relationship between the three friends (trust and understanding, individual growth, and running the business).

So there-
But yeah, it's a bit boring recently (Looking at 23-24 especially). The wounding plot was actually quite interesting for me, because the character portraits of all three women were very well highlighted in 25-26, but that's just personally.

I really like the name of this show, actually-I just saw it as words previously but it hit me when it said 'Dream of Splendor' it literally was talking about like, how people dream of splendor and the manifestation of it on people and their actions. I think Paner said it to Ouyang quite a bit, but she essentially said it seems like he was blinded by the beauty of the capital (causing him to perhaps have a change of heart/personality/morality). It's also where all the main characters heal and grow. So.

p.s. Really feel for the official eldest son of the Xiao family; he's not black and white and I think this all set him up well for his character to go south. The Xiao dad is just, he's not getting the #1 Dad trophy, if you know what I mean. Happy Father's Day, I guess?

I agree with some of your sentiments but one thing, I think it was established from the start that Paner agreed to so called 'take in' Yinzhang because it was Yinzhang's mother's wish (Yinzhang's mother passed away, I think she might have been in the same industry too). So while Yinzhang calls Paner an elder sister, Paner is more of a secondary mother to her.

Oh lord, tysm for the comment-you basically articulated exactly what I couldn't and what I was too lazy to say. SRZ-boy, you need to GO. I think all of them are just really realistic characters and they're all not perfect- e.g. Sun Sanniang has a good heart but her approaches aren't always the best (e.g. she always reacts actively) and both her and Paner don't treat Yinzhang as an equal and as for Yinzhang herself, who has HORRIBLE intuition, literally leaving her head to wander off in crazy directions but being misgiving of her for it. (Their priorities are also very different, and they don't actually communicate directly what the core of their differences are all the time, for example, Yinzhang needs to know that regardless of her 'high' position, the people at the tea shop were there to support her 'career' first and foremost and her attitude towards them is unnecessary, or that Paner and Sun Sanniang have different needs and they need to all compromise etc etc, ALSO she is being treated like a child and they are really generous about her behaviour but then tell her off when it gets extreme, like girl what is happening) AH